Compact mixing desks - what are you using?

[Woodinblack]

Mixing station I find is much better for customising, but not as good for 'seeing everything at once'.

I started like that but I do put guitars though the PA, mainly because I think it beefs stuff up, its easy to adjust and also it means that I can hear it in ears, which I use (as does the drummer). 

 

Same with the paying - I know there are ways etc, but the pa stuff is all mine, that way there is no hassle with ownership.

[JPJ]

Just to encourage you Dave, you too could have a setup like this.

 

X-Air Edit running on the Mac as I was recording multitrack and X-Touch controller which I use for on-the-fly tweaks whilst playing (physical faders are much easier than a touch screen).

Edited May 29, 2023 by JPJ

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, JPJ said:

Just to encourage you Dave, you too could have a setup like this.

 

X-Air Edit running on the Mac as I was recording multitrack and X-Touch controller which I use for on-the-fly tweaks whilst playing (physical faders are much easier than a touch screen).

Ha. The idea is to cut down on boxes and cables and be able to do sound remotely. As impressive as that looks, it’s totally the opposite of what im looking to do. 

Very cool though. 

[dave_bass5]

3 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Mixing station I find is much better for customising, but not as good for 'seeing everything at once'.

I started like that but I do put guitars though the PA, mainly because I think it beefs stuff up, its easy to adjust and also it means that I can hear it in ears, which I use (as does the drummer). 

 

Same with the paying - I know there are ways etc, but the pa stuff is all mine, that way there is no hassle with ownership.

Yeah, i felt the interface looked a bit less ‘fancy’ than the Behringer, but i can see its potential and it does look very comprehensive.

 

I may put at least one guitarist in to the PA at some point soon, as he now uses a multi effects box, but at the moment his volume levels are all over the place. It’s safer to only have all that coming out of his amp for now. The other is a firm ‘old school’ guy who thinks digital is just a fad. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by dave_bass5

[Woodinblack]

8 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ha. The idea is to cut down on boxes and cables and be able to do sound remotely. As impressive as that looks, it’s totally the opposite of what im looking to do. 

 

That is what I got it for, but I must admit that I have the x-touch just for edits on the fly with levels, but it sits on top of my amp when I am playing, so it doesn't really take up any other space (it is the same footprint as an ABM600!

 

When you are setting up it is just easier to wander out with an iPad to get the levels

[dave_bass5]

8 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

That is what I got it for, but I must admit that I have the x-touch just for edits on the fly with levels, but it sits on top of my amp when I am playing, so it doesn't really take up any other space (it is the same footprint as an ABM600!

 

When you are setting up it is just easier to wander out with an iPad to get the levels

Yeah, i can see the advantages of hardware sliders. I rarely need to touch our desk during a gig, but i can see that its a lot easier to quickly grab a slider rather than slide a finger on a screen etc. 

[Chienmortbb]

IF you want to see the Soundcraft interface, go here https://www.soundcraft.com/products/ui16 It is a real time simulation of the interface and I often use it when I want to find out how to do something without getting the mixer out.

[JPJ]

12 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

I may put at least one guitarist in to the PA at some point soon, as he now uses a multi effects box, but at the moment his volume levels are all over the place.

I had the same problem but it’s easily resolved in the XAir as every channel has a compressor so no one gets to ruin my FOH mix with a rogue patch or by simply turning their amp up. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by JPJ

[Woodinblack]

25 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

IF you want to see the Soundcraft interface, go here https://www.soundcraft.com/products/ui16 It is a real time simulation of the interface and I often use it when I want to find out how to do something without getting the mixer out.

 

looks good but can you not see the eq panel with the Spectrum view behind it? That to me is pretty invaluable at getting rid of odd spikes

[JPJ]

12 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ha. The idea is to cut down on boxes and cables and be able to do sound remotely. As impressive as that looks, it’s totally the opposite of what im looking to do. 

Very cool though. 

This was very much a full FOH setup for a technical rehearsal. Most times it’s just the rack unit that houses the XAir, the external router, a DBX DriveRack, and a handy 1U draw for cables and adapters. Where space permits, the XTouch sits on top of the rack case with the Surface Go resting in the lid.

[Woodinblack]

4 minutes ago, JPJ said:

I had the same problem but it’s easily resolved in the XAir as every channel has a compressor so no one gets to ruin my FOH mix with a rogue patch or by simply turning their amp up. 

 

I just change the gain at setup time from the mic'd guitar, its always different plus as you say, a compressor. Luckily the guitarists dont' tend to fiddle too much. The last one was too loud, so I turned his down, the current one is too quiet (? I know, is he even a real guitarist!) so I turn him up.

[Chienmortbb]

26 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

looks good but can you not see the eq panel with the Spectrum view behind it? That to me is pretty invaluable at getting rid of odd spikes

You have an RTA function that allows you to see how the system is set up in the room. I am on my phone at the moment so cannot access all features. I BBC will send more info later. 

[Woodinblack]

Yes, the Xair has the spectrum, but you can switch it on on the EQ panel, so you can see what you are eq'ing against, like if there is some feedback or something a bit peaky you can actually see it compared to the eq line. I have used it to kill a specific feedback frequency as the two line up.

[dave_bass5]

7 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

IF you want to see the Soundcraft interface, go here https://www.soundcraft.com/products/ui16 It is a real time simulation of the interface and I often use it when I want to find out how to do something without getting the mixer out.

Thanks. That looks quite cool. 

I hadn't even thought about the Soundcraft Ui16, but its £100 cheaper than the X18 and seems to have enough of what i need. 

The main compromise for me seems to be the Aux sends, but i cant imagine 4 wont be enough for my band. 

It seems quite a bit larger than the X18, but thats not a deal breaker. 

 

Until the Luddite of the two guitarists decides there is some milage in Digital (as well as starts using a decent tone) im apprehensive about mic’ing him up, but the other guitarist seems on top of his sounds and i am going to try him in the PA at the next gig.

 

We are just a pub/Social club band with a vocal PA (1x15+horn each side) so don’t need too many pro features, but of course its better to have them rather than not. 

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Thanks. That looks quite cool. 

I hadn't even thought about the Soundcraft Ui16, but its £100 cheaper than the X18 and seems to have enough of what i need. 

The main compromise for me seems to be the Aux sends, but i cant imagine 4 wont be enough for my band. 

It seems quite a bit larger than the X18, but thats not a deal breaker. 

 

Until the Luddite of the two guitarists decides there is some milage in Digital (as well as starts using a decent tone) im apprehensive about mic’ing him up, but the other guitarist seems on top of his sounds and i am going to try him in the PA at the next gig.

 

We are just a pub/Social club band with a vocal PA (1x15+horn each side) so don’t need too many pro features, but of course its better to have them rather than not. 

The Headphone out can be reassigned to Aux 5 and 6 is you want. The design of the Ui series is such that it can be used as a stage box, as it is only 100mm/4"  deep.  Also, you can unscrew the rack mount ears. So that makes it much smaller.  The downside is that it uses a brick power supply. It is a locking connector however and and can be velcro'd to the side of the unit.

 

[Woodinblack]

Oh thats a shame - it seems a good well thought out unit, why can't they put a proper cable into it rather than a power supply - work of the devil when gigging?

[EBS_freak]

Keeps the transformer away from the mic pres - less chance of noise. If something goes wrong, it's going to be the PSU, so again, user replaceable. So from a consumer pov, probably makes sense... and also makes the unit smaller.

[Woodinblack]

Nothing to do with noise reduction, it is just for cost. If it was built in any noise issue would be already dealt with. Also not really more maintainable really, unless there are a number of similar supplies, but if they can pass the cost on to the user that is good (and I note here that that mixer is cheaper, so you would expect cost savings).

When I am gigging, if there are two almost functionally identical items but one has a separate power supply, I will buy the one built in psu every time - I can deal with the power supply needing replacement, because, lets face it, that never happens compared to people jumping on the external PSU.

 

Unfortunately most modern synths have an external supply.

[EBS_freak]

Ask Zoom how well their PSU and audio shielding next to their auxes worked out for them...

 

Im with you on built in power supplies... but you know.

 

 

[Woodinblack]

I don't have any zoom things with built in PSU so I don't know, but I mean, if they don't work you notice it straight away! 

[dave_bass5]

Since my last post Ive watched a few videos on the Ui and it does look cool. I would be worried about the wall wart as far as damage goes, but I’ve got many devices that already use them. 
Then I came across the RCF M18. This appeals to me more. Inputs and outputs are more than adequate. Has the right number of Aux outs (yay, one guitarist is going to try IEM at the next rehearsal. I’m getting there) and I like that it seems smaller. 
It’s lacking some of the fancy stuff the others have, but seems perfect for us. 
 

Any thoughts?  I appreciate this has been discussed already. 

[Chienmortbb]

4 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Since my last post Ive watched a few videos on the Ui and it does look cool. I would be worried about the wall wart as far as damage goes, but I’ve got many devices that already use them. 
Then I came across the RCF M18. This appeals to me more. Inputs and outputs are more than adequate. Has the right number of Aux outs (yay, one guitarist is going to try IEM at the next rehearsal. I’m getting there) and I like that it seems smaller. 
It’s lacking some of the fancy stuff the others have, but seems perfect for us. 
 

Any thoughts?  I appreciate this has been discussed already. 

I did look at the M18 and @Phil Starr has one (he is a secret RCF fanboi). When I bought the Ui16, I needed more mic inputs than the M18 offered, 12 rather than 8. I was worried about the fact that the Ui had fewer Aux outs, but then I found the menu where you could reassign the Headphone out socket as Aux 5/6. That being said, the M18 would be my choice if I could get away with fewer mic inputs.

To me, the big thing was the User Interface. Having just to use a web browser instead of an app was the other big thing for me.

 

[Woodinblack]

I was aware of it and like the look of it and also like the fact they actually put a decent router in it. We had a conversation about it a while ago, I am sure it is good, although for me the lack of XLR / jack flexibility / mic inputs would be a deal breaker for me so I haven't looked that much into it.

Occasionally, very occasionally for big things we have been known to mic the drums up, at that point we need 12 mic XLR inputs.

 

 

[dave_bass5]

22 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I did look at the M18 and @Phil Starr has one (he is a secret RCF fanboi). When I bought the Ui16, I needed more mic inputs than the M18 offered, 12 rather than 8. I was worried about the fact that the Ui had fewer Aux outs, but then I found the menu where you could reassign the Headphone out socket as Aux 5/6. That being said, the M18 would be my choice if I could get away with fewer mic inputs.

To me, the big thing was the User Interface. Having just to use a web browser instead of an app was the other big thing for me.

 

 

At the moment we have 5 mics (all sing apart from me). Nothing else other than keys go through the PA at the moment. The drummer has a fancy little box/mixer thing that has a set of mic’s that he can use (although doesn't, as he is too loud as it is). Thats just a stereo jack to jack out. ‘Modern’ guitarist has a Helix type box (much cheaper) that has DI we could use, but doesn't need to be XLR on each end. Bass can DI (love that it has a MarkBass Amp sim in the M18). Again, doesn't need to be XLR. Id use mic cables for those above until we need more XLR, but i cant imagine we will. 

I like that all 3 of these mixers have a stereo headphones out, which i would use for my IEMs (i need stereo for keys). 

Ideally the singer will have her own Aux, the drummer his, guitarist (if he sticks with IEM) and me. Drummer will never go IEM. That leaves ‘dinosaur’ Guitarist and bass player. They can share an Aux that will run to a second stage monitor until they decide to go IEM.

We will never go amp less. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I was aware of it and like the look of it and also like the fact they actually put a decent router in it. We had a conversation about it a while ago, I am sure it is good, although for me the lack of XLR / jack flexibility / mic inputs would be a deal breaker for me so I haven't looked that much into it.

Occasionally, very occasionally for big things we have been known to mic the drums up, at that point we need 12 mic XLR inputs.

 

 

 

Cheers for that. I’ll have a read. Yes, it seems strange that all the Aux outs are jack based, but in a way that doe make it easier for me to connect things up. 

[dave_bass5]

Ohh, i just remembered i have a Korg NanoKontrol2. It’s got real sliders but is very small. I wonder if i can utilise that. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by dave_bass5