The compact mixing desk thread

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

Yeh, I have to do that too, my gigging iPad died, and I assume the new (old) one I got on eBay will probably come with an updated OS!

The old iPad I found at home can only go up to iOS 15 so seems to be fine with the Behringer app, but I’m warming to Mixer Station now so will probably use my iPad 9. I originally got that for running soft synths and although the screen is smaller than my pro I think it’s good enough. I plan on setting it all up using the pro and  use the iPad 9 for gigs. 

[Woodinblack]

I have a pro and an air 2, the air 2 was just for gigging, until recently it ran all the soft synths. Well, until recently it ran!

still cost £80 for a new one so sadly not worth trying to fix. I have a pro for everything else

[dave_bass5]

40 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I have a pro and an air 2, the air 2 was just for gigging, until recently it ran all the soft synths. Well, until recently it ran!

still cost £80 for a new one so sadly not worth trying to fix. I have a pro for everything else

I started off using my Air 1 but when i got a Hammond App it just wouldn't run. Ive been very impressed with the ‘cheap’ iPad9’ I think it was the last ipad to have a headphone out which is cool. Love my 12.9 pro though. Its old, got it in 2020 during the first lockdown, but i use it everyday. I thought my MacBook Pro would take over but that mostly just sits on the desk. I do plan on using it at gigs at some point, but so far it’s not needed. 

 

Ive ordered the Air XR18 from Thomanns. It’s out of stock but listed as hopefully in stock in about a week. I wont hold my breath. Everywhere else is saying early July. If it gets to mid June and i don't have it I’ll cancel the order and the the RCF M18. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by dave_bass5

[JPJ]

2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

 

Ok , last question before I pull the trigger. 
When using the app, does it save everything to the mixer or just the app? Reason I’m asking is I can’t figure out how someone else can have control with a different device other than by me sending the set up file to them. Is that how it works or does the mixer transmit the layout etc? 

You have a couple of methods. You can save scene files to your control device, or you can save snapshots in the XAir itself. I do both, just in case something gets corrupted. I have two snapshots saved on the XAir (one for each band) which are my starting points for every new venue, however if we’ve played that venue before I’ll have a scene saved with venue specific eq, delays, reverbs etc. 

[dave_bass5]

8 hours ago, JPJ said:

You have a couple of methods. You can save scene files to your control device, or you can save snapshots in the XAir itself. I do both, just in case something gets corrupted. I have two snapshots saved on the XAir (one for each band) which are my starting points for every new venue, however if we’ve played that venue before I’ll have a scene saved with venue specific eq, delays, reverbs etc. 

Thanks, thats a good way of working. I dont think I’ll need to many snapshots etc, but i wanted to make sure others can get the same info as my device without to much effort. They are a bit backwards when it comes to tech. 

[Phil Starr]

Sorry I should have said message me if you had specific questions. I've not been following this thread closely and only check in if someone quotes me or tags me.

 

It's probably too late as you've ordered the XR18. It's a good choice and scores over the M18 on flexibility every time. I wanted to report back on my practical experiences with the M18 a year on, as the last time I said anything I'd only just started using it and was still thrilled with my new toy. Now it's just another tool for the band but it has just gone on delivering with quiet efficiency so I'm still pleased with it.

 

I've never tried stereo monitoring but you can do it by using two aux channels, there are You Tube videos on this. I've never used the headphone output other than as a monitor for the main mix or to troubleshoot a single channel so I can't answer your implied question on how flexible that is as an extra monitor channel. If you wanted more than three stereo channels at the same time I'd be looking for something with more auxes and probably that means more busses. 

 

The M18 saves settings to the mixer. I've used three generations of iPad with it Originally my wife's gen 2, then one of the new ones which still has the headphone out and for backup my duo partners even more ancient one, they all work smoothly without a dropout so far. I remember trying out the software before I bought it and not everything worked without the mixer present so maybe that is why you crashed when using it. I've had zero problems so far and a lot of updates are for security reasons and operating offline would remove the need for a lot of these. 

 

I'm not someone who looks down at Behringer, I had a Behringer mixer and PA amps and they were great and problem free. A previous band had the X32 which was fabulous if somewhat large for a pub band. I didn't have to operate it but set up times seemed interminable when we used it. 

 

I think a rational choice between these two is simple. You are trading the ability to record multiple channels and flexibility in the Behringer for simplicity and slicker software in the M18 plus a reliable router, so less to carry. Behringer also sell add-ons so you can add in a control surface with real sliders and the P16 if you want to extend your monitoring abilities. I really thought seriously about the Behringer but realised all the extras were things I wouldn't use down the Dog and Duck and extra complexity was a trade off against quicker set up times and concentrating on playing not tech. 

 

make no mistake these are both great choices.

 

 

[EBS_freak]

Just reading back - the comment about auxes, remember one of the mega pluses of the XR18 is it’s ultranet functionality! Check

out the P16M.

[EBS_freak]

And now I’ve got to Phil’s comment!

[Woodinblack]

31 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Just reading back - the comment about auxes, remember one of the mega pluses of the XR18 is it’s ultranet functionality! Check

out the P16M.

 

Indeed - the options for expanding are much greater and thus the options for spending money are much much greater!

[dave_bass5]

Thanks Phil. I’ll reply in length later. 
The comment about the headphone out is because I normally use a TRS to XLR stereo cable for my IEM’s. It feels a bit clunky if I have to use two XLR outs. 6 in total is more than enough for the band. 

[dave_bass5]

34 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Just reading back - the comment about auxes, remember one of the mega pluses of the XR18 is it’s ultranet functionality! Check

out the P16M.

Our needs are really quite modest. We have been doing ok with a standard mixer for years, only using 8 channels, so the P16M would really be overkill at the moment.

I’d rather no one in the band fiddles with anything while we are playing, but with me stuck up at the back, and levels going up during the gig it makes sense that the singer and drummer have control over their monitoring. The rest of the band , not so much. 
Hoping to start putting more instruments through the PA, starting with one guitar for now. 
 

[dave_bass5]

On 01/06/2023 at 08:11, Phil Starr said:

 

 

I think a rational choice between these two is simple. You are trading the ability to record multiple channels and flexibility in the Behringer for simplicity and slicker software in the M18 plus a reliable router, so less to carry. Behringer also sell add-ons so you can add in a control surface with real sliders and the P16 if you want to extend your monitoring abilities. I really thought seriously about the Behringer but realised all the extras were things I wouldn't use down the Dog and Duck and extra complexity was a trade off against quicker set up times and concentrating on playing not tech. 

 

make no mistake these are both great choices.

 

 

Thanks a again for the reply.

That all makes sense, especially the disservice’s between the two. Although i have gone for the XR18 (already on its way from Thomann's) i still think the M18 is the better of the two as far as set up and usability.

As you say, the router is not going to need help, and the app seems really good. Between the two it seemed the M18 won on not needing an external router, but wound need more adapters for the Aux outs. It’s easier and cheaper for me to use the many unused XLR’s that we have in the gig bag. Same with the non XLR inputs. Not the end of the world that they arent XLR, but we don’t have many jack to jacks spare. 

 

As for the app.  Im finding Mixing Station to be very comprehensive, but a nightmare to set up. It seemed easy enough for the very basic stuff, but ive run in to a few very time consuming issues. I have had help from the dev though, which gives me more confidence over an app that haven’t been updated for almost 5 years. 

Ive now got quite a simple mixer set up, and prertty much a lto of the extras aren’t used. Considering what ive used in the past, this will be like a breath of fresh air. I’ll even be able to give up using a sub mixer and use the XR18 for all my monitoring. That will make life easier for me. 

[Phil Starr]

Dave I have to say going for a digital mixer whichever you choose is such a step up, just being able to store the mix for your bands is worth it but you get so much more. Once you've worked your way along the learning curve you'll love it. have fun.

 

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

Dave I have to say going for a digital mixer whichever you choose is such a step up, just being able to store the mix for your bands is worth it but you get so much more. Once you've worked your way along the learning curve you'll love it. have fun.

 

Thanks. Yeah, i can see the potential. its just a shame that although it will work really well, its still overkill for my band. 

I am looking forward to recording some gigs and rehearsals through it, straight to Logic. 

[Kirky]

12 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Same with the non XLR inputs. Not the end of the world that they arent XLR, but we don’t have many jack to jacks spare. 

 

 

Could you get around this using a patch bay, with the added advantage that the M18's inputs are protected from constant inserting/removing leads?  Like this https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_pb16_xlr_out.htm

[Happy Jack]

On 31/05/2023 at 17:57, dave_bass5 said:

There is still a lot to take in, but am i correct that with both the X18 and M18, i can use the phones out as a stereo aux, with almost as much control as the normal Aux’s have?

 

Just noticed that no one seems to have answered this.

 

The Phones Out gives a stereo FoH mix with an independent (physical) volume knob as the only real 'control'. I use a stereo jack to 2xmono jack cable to run that output to the XLR inputs on my Zoom H4. That gives me a flawless recording of the band at every gig, while placing the H4 close to the drum kit allows the X/Y mic capsule to record (mainly) that kit, which allows for the fact that the kit will usually be recorded pretty low in the mix from the X18.

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Kirky said:

Could you get around this using a patch bay, with the added advantage that the M18's inputs are protected from constant inserting/removing leads?  Like this https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_pb16_xlr_out.htm

Well yes, but thats adding more stuff which was what i was trying to avoid. Id be more inclined to use adapters if and when necessary.

[dave_bass5]

40 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Just noticed that no one seems to have answered this.

 

The Phones Out gives a stereo FoH mix with an independent (physical) volume knob as the only real 'control'. I use a stereo jack to 2xmono jack cable to run that output to the XLR inputs on my Zoom H4. That gives me a flawless recording of the band at every gig, while placing the H4 close to the drum kit allows the X/Y mic capsule to record (mainly) that kit, which allows for the fact that the kit will usually be recorded pretty low in the mix from the X18.

Thanks., ive yet to receive my XR18, but i see you can set the phones (Monitor) out to get its feed from anywhere. I have a mixer template already set up that directs Aux 5/6 to the phones. So i can use this in the same way as the Aux outs, but with just my usual TSR to XLR cable. It does take two Aux’s, which leaves the band with only 4. Still, i brought it so i can do what i want lol. 

 

Ive always recorded gigs and rehearsals, always from the stage, with but as you say, this opens up a whole new level of options. I do plan on using the multitrack out in to my iPad or MacBook at some point. Logic will handle each track as a separate track so i can mix later.  Like you it will probably be minus the drums so I’ll do as you do, still use my digital recorder on stage in front of the drums. Obviously going to be a lot of spill but having the ability to mix in directly recorded instrument's sounds really cool. 

[Woodinblack]

I do all channel multitracks, but we only wire up the full drums on outdoor gigs (such as todays) so I will multitrack from this one. I use Garage Band on an old laptop to actually record, and then just put it in logic to do any mixing, the laptop I record on is an old 1st edition macbook air with a floppy lid that is dented, so I don't mind it dissapearing on stage!

I record all gigs but never really tried it with my zoom, maybe I should - I just tend to stick the recorder somewhere. The XR16 had a usb recorder, shame they took that off on the 18, but then you get the multitrack (which is the main reason I changed).

[dave_bass5]

9 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I do all channel multitracks, but we only wire up the full drums on outdoor gigs (such as todays) so I will multitrack from this one. I use Garage Band on an old laptop to actually record, and then just put it in logic to do any mixing, the laptop I record on is an old 1st edition macbook air with a floppy lid that is dented, so I don't mind it dissapearing on stage!

I record all gigs but never really tried it with my zoom, maybe I should - I just tend to stick the recorder somewhere. The XR16 had a usb recorder, shame they took that off on the 18, but then you get the multitrack (which is the main reason I changed).

It’s not something i was too bothered with, as what i do now with a small digital recorder has been working well for years, but the thought that i can almost re mix a gig with just a little more effort is quite appealing. The drums normally come put quite loud on the recording anyway, but with a bit more though (like Jack said, put it closer to the kit) and running the recoding through something like Spectralayers to separate out the drums from everything else should produce much better end results. 

I guess id uses my iPad Pro at gig for this. Ive been looking fro a reason to get Logic on ipad. Would probably start off with rehearsals and use my MacBook pro though.

Edited June 4, 2023 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

Ive got a question (many really, lets start with an easy one).

Im trying to figure out the best strategy as far as all band members having access to the XR18. Not a good idea to give full access obviously. 

 

What do you guys do?

Im thinking of making a full layout for me, copying it to the phone, and creating a custom layout that has more minimal control. for example, take off the Master fader, and only have one send, which will be relevant to the person i give it to. That way it keeps their screen clearer, and means they wont click on the wrong Aux and much someone else's mix up. Im not sure i can disable or take off the main faders. 

Does this seem feasible and possible with Mixing Station?

[JPJ]

There are a couple of apps out there specifically for this not that I’ve used either. I think it’s MXMix on iPhone and Qmix on android. 

[dave_bass5]

22 minutes ago, JPJ said:

There are a couple of apps out there specifically for this not that I’ve used either. I think it’s MXMix on iPhone and Qmix on android. 

Thanks. Ive since found out the Mixing Station actually has modes that allow people to run the app with only the Send bus showing. It’s pretty cool as each person chooses which bus they want when starting the app, and all they can really do is adjust the sends on that bus. Less room for mistakes. 

[tauzero]

There's the X Air Q app which allows the levels being sent to a selected bus to be set. I don't know if you can lock down which buses can be amended by one person though.

 

I've got an XR12 which I am just getting to grips with after the first gig on Saturday. Going through recent posts in this thread, I was idly curious about the Soundcraft, RCF, and Zoom offerings, and had a look at both. No point switching the XR12 for any of them - what did surprise me (and shouldn't) was that the Zoom only works with iOS. This reflects previous limitations, like the MS-100BT and the G6 which have apps only available on iOS. I asked Zoom about this back when the MS-100BT was out and they said they wouldn't bring out anything for Android, so they're ignoring 70% of mobile app users. Rant over.

[dave_bass5]

6 hours ago, tauzero said:

There's the X Air Q app which allows the levels being sent to a selected bus to be set. I don't know if you can lock down which buses can be amended by one person though.

 

I've got an XR12 which I am just getting to grips with after the first gig on Saturday. Going through recent posts in this thread, I was idly curious about the Soundcraft, RCF, and Zoom offerings, and had a look at both. No point switching the XR12 for any of them - what did surprise me (and shouldn't) was that the Zoom only works with iOS. This reflects previous limitations, like the MS-100BT and the G6 which have apps only available on iOS. I asked Zoom about this back when the MS-100BT was out and they said they wouldn't bring out anything for Android, so they're ignoring 70% of mobile app users. Rant over.

Thanks. As i said, Mixing station (which ill use as i cant use the Behringer app on my main iPad’s) does have a mode where each of the band members are locked in to just the monitor bus. When they start the app they can start in restricted mode and choose what bus to control. It’s a much simplified layout as well which will work for them. I still think it’s a bad idea letting some of them loose with it, but it takes the pressure off me, especially for the IEM users. The drummer has said he wont use IEM’s  but he has a decent monitor, and its more for hearing the keyboards. 

I am looking forward to using it with the band. i can now ditch my own mixer system, and my singers can now benefit from my ambient mic set up. Ive got 14 channels set up already so im glad i went for the 18 and not the 16.