The compact mixing desk thread

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

The output impedance and level of a headphone output is very different from an Aux output.

 

 

For me the price difference between the CQ12 and 18 doesn't seem enough. I mean they are too expensive for me (which is a shame, that 18 does look nice, but the x18 is still working fine at every gig) but if I had the money for the 12, I think I would push it up to the 18.

On the CQ forums, the consensus is that both the mic preamps and effects are a class above the Behringer compacts. Of course owner bias might be a factor but to me the biggest difference is the build . My CQ20 is built like a brick outhouse.

 

 

Edited October 12 by Chienmortbb

[Woodinblack]

6 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

On the CQ forums, the consensus is that both the mic preamps and effects are a class above the Behringer compacts. Of course owner bias might be a factor but to me the biggest difference is the build . My CQ20 is built like a brick outhouse.

 

Undoubtedly i would expect it to be better, but I have used the x18 at many hundreds of gigs over the last 7 years, its been thrown around, stood on, had drinks drop on it and been yanked around by its cables, and in that time hasn't missed a beat once, so I trust it. If I had nothing now I would probably get the CQ18, but there is nothing that I would really gain from it at the moment, and who needs better mic preamps when your singer sounds muffled at source!

[Al Krow]

I've also seen that the CQ18 has three multifunction rotary knobs not available on the CQ12 - do folk find these useful?

 

Can these be used as a master volume control for the desk? The lack of anything obvious in that department in the CQ range is a bit of a concern if you there is a sudden volume/feedback spike!

[dave_bass5]

On 12/10/2024 at 14:52, Woodinblack said:

 

Undoubtedly i would expect it to be better, but I have used the x18 at many hundreds of gigs over the last 7 years, its been thrown around, stood on, had drinks drop on it and been yanked around by its cables, and in that time hasn't missed a beat once, so I trust it. If I had nothing now I would probably get the CQ18, but there is nothing that I would really gain from it at the moment, and who needs better mic preamps when your singer sounds muffled at source!

Pretty much why we went for the XR18 and not the MR18. I think people obsess so much over things that in the real world don't make any difference. 

[warwickhunt]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

I've also seen that the CQ18 has three multifunction rotary knobs not available on the CQ12 - do folk find these useful?

 

Can these be used as a master volume control for the desk? The lack of anything obvious in that department in the CQ range is a bit of a concern if you there is a sudden volume/feedback spike!

 

I have the CQ12 and I have one of the 'buttons' set up as a mute button for the output... just for emergencies.  

[Al Krow]

58 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I have the CQ12 and I have one of the 'buttons' set up as a mute button for the output... just for emergencies.  

 

Excellent thanks! Just what the doctor ordered!

[warwickhunt]

I don't regret getting the 12 but if money were no object the 18 might have been nice to have for the extra channels, I'm not sure for my use whether those 'smart-knobs' would be uber useful.  

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

I don't regret getting the 12 but if money were no object the 18 might have been nice to have for the extra channels, I'm not sure for my use whether those 'smart-knobs' would be uber useful.  

 

Would the router on the 18 not have come in handy? eg being able to stand in front of the speakers and real time adjust the FoH band mix via your phone or tablet?

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

I don't regret getting the 12 but if money were no object the 18 might have been nice to have for the extra channels, I'm not sure for my use whether those 'smart-knobs' would be uber useful.  

 

I think the smart knobs seem like a good idea, touch a channel then you have gain, level and pan on knobs rather than the touch screen, with a master volume, whats not to like?

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Would the router on the 18 not have come in handy? eg being able to stand in front of the speakers and real time adjust the FoH band mix via your phone or tablet?

 

Handy 'possibly' but I've not figured a way to play bass in the mix and adjust controls remotely; I can get by.

 

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I think the smart knobs seem like a good idea, touch a channel then you have gain, level and pan on knobs rather than the touch screen, with a master volume, whats not to like?

 

Not a negative having the 3 controls but it is back to the cost v gain; would I pay several hundred for the benefit?  I generally adjust each discretely and as for 'pan'... hmmm not really adjusted that often!  LOL

[Chienmortbb]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Can these be used as a master volume control for the desk? The lack of anything obvious in that department in the CQ range is a bit of a concern if you there is a sudden volume/feedback spike!

They are just about fully programmable.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

Not a negative having the 3 controls but it is back to the cost v gain; would I pay several hundred for the benefit?  I generally adjust each discretely and as for 'pan'... hmmm not really adjusted that often!  LOL

 

No, I don't adjust pan, but they seem useful. I agree, that themselves they aren't worth that much although for me, if I was in the market for a new mixer, the price difference between the 12 and 18 makes the 18 a no brainer, but thats because the 12 channels and no wifi wouldn't work for me.

But then it is an easy decision as Im not in the market!

[Al Krow]

10 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

Handy 'possibly' but I've not figured a way to play bass in the mix and adjust controls remotely; I can get by.

 

A wireless set up on bass does certainly help to hear yourself in the mix from the audience, in my experience.

Having the ability to adjust the desk settings on the fly while you're still in the audience rather than having to walk back up to the stage and then back out to the audience and back again etc., should  help speed things up during sound check? Only usually possible with a digital desk with wifi?

I suspect a digital desk such as the A&H with no sliders or gain knobs, is going to be trickier for bandmates back on stage to figure out menus and adjust settings, unless they are prepared to put in the time to get up to speed, vs being able to adjust a post EQ volume slider or a pre EQ gain knob?

 

So I can see that being able to tweak the desk settings from your phone or tablet from the audience as definitely having some benefits, which the built in router allows. We're a 4 piece band, so the 12 channels on the CQ12T would be ample for us, but I'm thinking that the wifi/built in router on the CQ18T could well come in very handy.

Edited October 16 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Well...I've managed to source a B stock CQ18T from Andertons for £40 more than the price of a new CQ12T, which has made the decision on which one to get much more straightforward 😊

Should be arriving later this week. 

[warwickhunt]

Result!   

[Chienmortbb]

I chose the CQ20 for a number of things, firstly the fact that is used mainly XLR for the inputs and outputs. I hate TRS for audio. Also I already had a Soundcraft UI16, so was quite used to a tablet only control system. The other thing was that the size of the CQ20 is smaller than it looks in the pictures. However I can see why you would want the screen on the CQ18 if coming from a board with sliders.

[Pirellithecat]

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Well...I've managed to source a B stock CQ18T from Andertons for £40 more than the price of a new CQ12T, which has made the decision on which one to get much more straightforward 😊

Should be arriving later this week. 

Hi Al,   I await your assessment with baited breath -  don't hold back!! 

 

[Al Krow]

On 16/10/2024 at 14:22, Pirellithecat said:

Hi Al,   I await your assessment with baited breath -  don't hold back!! 

 

 

 Well, very first impressions of the CQ18T are that it's decently compact and should mean one fewer bag to take to take to gigs! That's a good start...😄

 

Edited October 17 by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

 

 Well, very first impressions of the CQ18T are that it's decently compact and should mean one fewer bag to take to take to gigs! That's a good start...😄

 

The one thing I envy on the CQ18T is the the assignable knobs. Is it built like a tank like the CQ20?

[Al Krow]

On 15/10/2024 at 18:07, Al Krow said:

I've also seen that the CQ18 has three multifunction rotary knobs not available on the CQ12 - do folk find these useful?

 

8 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

The one thing I envy on the CQ18T is the the assignable knobs. Is it built like a tank like the CQ20?

 

Seems that my thinking that these could come in very handy wasn't a bad shout, if you've taken a liking to that feature? Together with the router (and B stock price!) persuaded me to go for the CQ18T rather than its baby brother. It seems solidly built, but whether it's as tank like as the CQ20 only time will tell...

 

Edited October 17 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

18 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

 

 Well, very first impressions of the CQ18T are that it's decently compact and should mean one fewer bag to take to take to gigs! That's a good start...😄

 

That reminds me of a Helix Stomp 🙂

We looked at getting something like this, and on the surface it seemed ideal for us, but what made us go for the XR18 is the ability to just chuck it anywhere on stage. As the XR18 doesn't have a screen or knobs it can sit out of sight and without fear of anyone touching something they shouldn't, and if it gets kicked its robust enough (so far) to take it. As i mainly do the sound I dont want anyone touching anything on the mixer, they have their apps for their monitor mixes and that's all they are allowed (or I can do it).

Must admit having a good router built in is a good idea, but again, we use a small USB router that can be positioned somewhere else if needed. Most of the time its Velcro'd to the XR18.

 

It seemed strange at first, not having a table on stage with a mixer on it., but on some of the stages we play on the space regained has been welcome. 

[Al Krow]

18 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

That reminds me of a Helix Stomp 🙂

 

Just spotted the brand on the ruler (which I'd never clocked in the many years of owning it!) 😅

 

The XR18 seems to be a hugely well regarded piece of kit by a lot of BC'ers. Must admit having a built in interface on the CQ is going to be a bit of a comfort blanket for me, just in case there's an issue with my tablet for whatever reason. 

Btw are they still selling the basic XR18 model - seems that the XAir version with the built in router (and its router doesn't seem to get great press tbf) is the only one now available?

 

Edited October 18 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Just spotted the brand on the ruler (which I'd never clocked in the many years of owning it!) 😅

 

The XR18 seems to be a hugely well regarded piece of kit by a lot of BC'ers. Must admit having a built in interface on the CQ is going to be a bit of a comfort blanket for me, just in case there's an issue with my tablet for whatever reason. 

Btw are they still selling the basic XR18 model - seems that the XAir version with the built in router (and its router doesn't seem to get great press tbf) is the only one now available?

 

 
Haha, never noticed the ruler. What a coincidence. 

The XR18 has a router built in. It does seem to have a bad rep, but I’ve used it at home many times without any issue. Even a few rehearsals without any drop outs, but as it’s 2.4 i don’t want to risk it at gigs as i stick to 5ghz. 
At a gig, and without a sound engineer doing our sound it’s pretty much set and forget as far as FOH goes, and pretty much impossible for the rest of the band to tweak while playing even though they have the app (can’t get a phone out and move slowed while playing guitar) so even if we had drop outs it’s pretty much a non issue. It’s not like we are riding the faders all night and it doesn’t change anyone setting on the XR18 if it does. 

Best not to take any changes though. 

Once i got Mixing station and figured that out i found the transition to digital very easy. I use my iPad so have a pretty large screen (compared to a phone), and have a layout that is very close to our old mixer. 
Whatever you use you will be good to go after a few hours. We use ours all the time, even at the rehearsal studios. It gives me the practice i need and gives the band the practice they need to plug things in etc. out bass play still gets its wrong, and everything is labels up and colour coded 🙄

 

Not sure what the basic XR18 is, just the one XR18 as far as i know. They do one that you can put a tablet in but i don’t think that’s as popular. Can’t remember the name though, might be the X-Air. 

Edited October 18 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

Ah, forget the XR18 is called the X-Air. Not aware of a more basic model though, other than those with less channels. The X18 is the one with the tablet feature. Not sure what tablet will work with it these days.

Edited October 18 by dave_bass5

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

That reminds me of a Helix Stomp 🙂

We looked at getting something like this, and on the surface it seemed ideal for us, but what made us go for the XR18 is the ability to just chuck it anywhere on stage. As the XR18 doesn't have a screen or knobs it can sit out of sight and without fear of anyone touching something they shouldn't, and if it gets kicked its robust enough (so far) to take it. As i mainly do the sound I dont want anyone touching anything on the mixer, they have their apps for their monitor mixes and that's all they are allowed (or I can do it).

Must admit having a good router built in is a good idea, but again, we use a small USB router that can be positioned somewhere else if needed. Most of the time its Velcro'd to the XR18.

 

It seemed strange at first, not having a table on stage with a mixer on it., but on some of the stages we play on the space regained has been welcome. 

The CQ20 is the A&H mixer you should have looked at. The XR18 is cheaper and is expandable and could be all you need. The thing that put me off the Behringers is the WiFi. It is truly unusable, as is that of the Soundcraft UI series without an external router (I have owned one of each). The CQ18/20  are much more robust.