The compact mixing desk thread

[51m0n]

Midas m32 rack is the most compact solution for the mixer, u til you add in the stage boxes for io of course 🤣

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, 51m0n said:

Midas m32 rack is the most compact solution for the mixer, u til you add in the stage boxes for io of course 🤣

But has a pretty hefty price tag, ooof!

Once you start taking tablets and routers into the mix that does increase effective size / eliminates the convenience of a one-stop desk but agreed the RCF M18 is definitely an alternative option to think about here.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Once you start taking tablets and routers into the mix that does increase effective size / eliminates the convenience of a one-stop desk but agreed the RCF M18 is definitely an alternative option to think about here.

 

With the X18s / M18s etc, you can use the great surfaces too, which don't take up much room, being exactly the same footprint as a Ashdown ABM600. which I happen to have here!

 

 

Which side on looks like this (ignore the rest, not my wiring!

 

[Happy Jack]

Tell your drummer he's just an attention seeker! 😉

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Tell your drummer he's just an attention seeker! 😉

 

You think??

 

[51m0n]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

But has a pretty hefty price tag, ooof!

Once you start taking tablets and routers into the mix that does increase effective size / eliminates the convenience of a one-stop desk but agreed the RCF M18 is definitely an alternative option to think about here.

You want full featured and small footprint you can expect to be paying a bit.

 

As mixers go these days feature per buck is unreal. In the late 90s big studio consoles with 32 channels and eq and dynamics on ever channel, but no other fx with 12 Busses would cost at least 250k.

 

These things really do compete feature wise, and have fx built in, and effectively perfect recall,  for just a few 1000 all in.

 

That's cheap as chips!

Edited November 10, 2022 by 51m0n

[Happy Jack]

23 minutes ago, 51m0n said:

That's cheap as chips!

 

Absolutely true if you're talking about big studio consoles, not so much if you're talking about "compact mixing desks" (i.e. the subject of this topic).

 

Pretty much all modern electronics follow the 90/10 Rule (I can do 90% of what I want using just 10% of the tools available) although in truth I think it's now far more of a 95/5 Rule.

 

If I was to be designing a compact mixing desk for use in the sort of situations where a compact mixing desk would be useful, then I certainly would not include a myriad of knobs, switches, dials and functions. I'd identify what it is that people actually use (or at least are most likely to use) and pare the system down to those.

 

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

🙂

[EBS_freak]

Just out of interest, just what is your budget?

[dave_bass5]

53 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

 

If I was to be designing a compact mixing desk for use in the sort of situations where a compact mixing desk would be useful, then I certainly would not include a myriad of knobs, switches, dials and functions. I'd identify what it is that people actually use (or at least are most likely to use) and pare the system down to those.

 

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

🙂

This is pretty much what im finding, and it’s bloody annoying. I use a small 8 channel desk for my keys. I only use two stereo channels, i dont need all of them. I plan on using a mic for room ambience for IEM’s. With our main desk I can have this in stereo and my IEM’s/keys in stereo, but with my small desk im going to have to put it all through an mono Aux, and go down to mono, just  the mic doesn't come out of the mains. Why cant they put a pre/post fade switch, a mute etc, on these small ones. All these small mixers seem to lack functions that the larger ones have, but not everyone needs a 12-16 etc channel desk. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by dave_bass5

[Happy Jack]

Few things annoy me more than mono IEMs. 😡

[dave_bass5]

2 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Few things annoy me more than mono IEMs. 😡

My little desk has a separate control room out, so i can send a feed directly to my P2/IEMS, and this is of course in stereo. id be happy with a mood ambient mix along with this, but there is no way to mute the output from the mic to the mains other than to have it turned down, and use the Aux sends, which means i have to use my P2 connected to the mono Aux send. 

Ive seen larger desks that would be more suitable, but these seem to have a lot of things i dont need, inc FX, and it just seems like a waste of money (although i am tempted still). 

[Happy Jack]

In all fairness, having FX would allow you to put Delay and Distortion on the IEMs. 

 

Just saying ...

[dave_bass5]

8 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

In all fairness, having FX would allow you to put Delay and Distortion on the IEMs. 

 

Just saying ...

Yep, but in my case my keys have all that already. 

I don’t mind getting something with features i dont want, but it’s the fact that i have to get larger than i care for thats really the issue. Closest ive seen is a Behringer XENYX X1204USB, which allows the Aux to be pre or post, but its still physically larger than i care for. 

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Just out of interest, just what is your budget?

 

It's a good question - I was going for something around the RCF M18 ballpark at the outset, but fine with paying a bit more if the functionality / usability makes it worthwhile. I guess ideally <£600 for a desk.

Just offloaded my little A&H Zed 10FX on fleabay within a couple of days of listing it (and before I'd got around to even listing it on BC!) so I'm actually under a bit of pressure now to come off the fence and make a decision.

Current front runner for my 4-piece band is probably still the Zoom Livetrack L8, which looks neat, has a good feature set and is pretty affordable.

[lemmywinks]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

But has a pretty hefty price tag, ooof!

Once you start taking tablets and routers into the mix that does increase effective size / eliminates the convenience of a one-stop desk but agreed the RCF M18 is definitely an alternative option to think about here.

 

We keep our XR18 in a 3u shallow rack bag, similar size to a traditional bass head. In there is the XR18 itself, a power strip with everything plugged in, the router and an aux to bluetooth adapter so we can stream music wirelessly from phones etc. One plug and it's all ready to go, no faffing around hooking up routers or anything. This is the rack bag we use, they do 2u ones for the smaller digital desks as well:

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/3U-19-inch-Shallow-Rack-Bag-by-Gear4music/WNQ?origin=product-ads&gclid=Cj0KCQiA37KbBhDgARIsAIzce17S6t1xIeBq8JfKQgEfifJ7lwgcR4a1usDFz9goN6g-OuoB7qEBecEaAkJtEALw_wcB

Has a shoulder strap so you can carry your entire desk and still have both hands free!

 

For the main mix we use a slim 12.5" convertible laptop/tablet which can sit on the rack when we don't have a FoH engineer, we transport it in a slim bag which weighs nothing. For my own personal use I have an 8.9" tablet on a clamp attached to my bass stand, this goes in the dedicated laptop/tablet pocket in my Gator gigbag so nothing extra to carry on that front either.

 

It's the smallest most easily transportable full band PA I've ever used, also one of the cheapest and means we don't have to lug amps/monitors around or use a van.

 

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

We keep our XR18 in a 3u shallow rack bag, similar size to a traditional bass head. In there is the XR18 itself, a power strip with everything plugged in, the router and an aux to bluetooth adapter so we can stream music wirelessly from phones etc. One plug and it's all ready to go, no faffing around hooking up routers or anything. This is the rack bag we use, they do 2u ones for the smaller digital desks as well:

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/3U-19-inch-Shallow-Rack-Bag-by-Gear4music/WNQ?origin=product-ads&gclid=Cj0KCQiA37KbBhDgARIsAIzce17S6t1xIeBq8JfKQgEfifJ7lwgcR4a1usDFz9goN6g-OuoB7qEBecEaAkJtEALw_wcB

Has a shoulder strap so you can carry your entire desk and still have both hands free!

 

For the main mix we use a slim 12.5" convertible laptop/tablet which can sit on the rack when we don't have a FoH engineer, we transport it in a slim bag which weighs nothing. For my own personal use I have an 8.9" tablet on a clamp attached to my bass stand, this goes in the dedicated laptop/tablet pocket in my Gator gigbag so nothing extra to carry on that front either.

 

It's the smallest most easily transportable full band PA I've ever used, also one of the cheapest and means we don't have to lug amps/monitors around or use a van.
 

 

Thanks for that. What's your current band line up and I'd be very interested what you're using for the rest of the PA in terms of speakers and IEM kit (transmitters / receivers and earpieces).

[lemmywinks]

22 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Thanks for that. What's your current band line up and I'd be very interested what you're using for the rest of the PA in terms of speakers and IEM kit (transmitters / receivers and earpieces).

 

 

We have 5 members and our inputs are 3 x vocal, guitar, bass, keys and a fully mic'd up kit. At the moment we're using Alto TS215 tops and a single Alto TS215s sub although will most likely be upgrading to just a pair of RCF 745 cabs when we have enough band funds, the Altos are surprisingly good though. For monitoring we just use the Behringer P2 packs with KZ ZS10 IEM setup recommended on here, most of the band use the Mixing Station app on their phones but I have the full X Air PC app on a Windows tablet.

 

Previously we used a Mackie DL32r with 2 x RCF 725 tops and 2 x RCF subs, tbh the subs were huge and weighed a ton so I don't want to go back to using that sort of setup really. In fact we've just got some bookings at a venue we used to play which has horrible fire escape stairs for loading in and it was a relief knowing our PA is much lighter and smaller than it was the last time we played there!

 

Here's our entire desk/router etc in the 3u rack bag, the little laptop to the side of it has an 8" screen and is about the size of a small hardback book for size comparison, was using it to record the gig:

Edited November 11, 2022 by lemmywinks

[Al Krow]

I've ended up going for the Zoom L8 following @skidder652003's enthusiasm for his band's L12, which should do the job nicely for the 4-piece covers band I'm taking the lead on this for. It's pretty modest in terms of cost (a little over £300) but the ability to provide 4 separate/tailored outputs to each band member will facilitate us getting wired / wireless IEMs which is the current plan, and the lack of individual monitor outputs was the key constraint to the otherwise excellent Allen & Heath mixing desks we've been using and which have done us proud since 2014.

[skidder652003]

16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I've ended up going for the Zoom L8 following @skidder652003's enthusiasm for his band's L12, which should do the job nicely for the 4-piece covers band I'm taking the lead on this for. It's pretty modest in terms of cost (a little over £300) but the ability to provide 4 separate/tailored outputs to each band member will facilitate us getting wired / wireless IEMs which is the current plan, and the lack of individual monitor outputs was the key constraint to the otherwise excellent Allen & Heath mixing desks we've been using and which have done us proud since 2014.

Nice one, we have the L20 actually which is a fantastic bit of kit. good call on the L8

Edited November 16, 2022 by skidder652003

[Al Krow]

34 minutes ago, skidder652003 said:

Nice one, we have the L20 actually which is a fantastic bit of kit. good call on the L8

Cheers fella, I wasn't even aware of the Zoom mixing desk range before you mentioned it so, much appreciated!

[Pirellithecat]

Happy New Year Al.    How's the Zoom L8 panning out?   
I've finally managed to get some interest for going in Ears (well, me and the Drummer at least!!), which means, if I can convince the others, we'll need at least 4 monitor mixes .... so potentially a new mixer. 
How are you finding the onboard FX's on the L8 and is it straightforward to add an external source for stereo music provision during breaks etc?? 
  

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

Happy New Year Al.    How's the Zoom L8 panning out?   
I've finally managed to get some interest for going in Ears (well, me and the Drummer at least!!), which means, if I can convince the others, we'll need at least 4 monitor mixes .... so potentially a new mixer. 
How are you finding the onboard FX's on the L8 and is it straightforward to add an external source for stereo music provision during breaks etc?? 
  

Hey - happy new year to you too! Well we had a bit of a scare as on the first outing there was a little power surge in the pub which caused the trip switch to cut everything out just before we were due on! Following which, we couldn't get any decent output from the mixer and meant we had a very stripped back start (drums, vox, guitar), whilst I spent 20 mins in the car going through the manual to see if I could find a fix...  On the plus side whatever I did seemed to do the trick (or the thing simply reset itself, haha) and when we had the full band with a decent bass in the mix it really did sound soooo much fuller! I guess the band (including me) appreciated bass in the mix so much more after that! We managed to recover after that shaky start and had a great night! Here's a little clip for your entertainment: LA Mixtrax (@lamixtrax)

 

But in answer to your question, I'll definitely let you know after the next gig in a couple of weeks time - as getting the fx settings sorted last time ended up not being a priority!! A couple of us are going down the relatively budget Xvives U4 route for wireless IEMs - and the 4 individual monitor outs that can give each of us a tailored mix on the Zoom L8 should hopefully be just the ticket.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Al Krow

[mario_buoninfante]

On 04/09/2022 at 10:43, Al Krow said:

We've been using Allen & Heath mixing desks (Zed10FX and Zed60-14FX) models for a long while and they've served us very well. However, we're coming up against the constraints of the limited monitor outputs on the A&H desks though (one aux-out and one headphone out). I've recently come across the Soundcraft Signature series, which look well featured, and have three individually controllable aux-outs as well as a headphone out. Seem to get pretty good reviews online.

 

Any of you come across Soundcraft gear or, if not, be interested to hear what you're using and how well you rate your desks?

 

Had several Soundcrafts over the years. My current mixers are a small Folio for the keys and a Sprit FX 16ch with Lexicon fx, penultimate generation.

They get the job done. I mean, the small one is really small, that's why I got it.

The Spirit is more or less the same size of the classic Mackie VLZ 1604.

It sounds good and has the right amount of send/returns/busses/inserts for me.

The Lexicon fx on it are good too. Clearly they don't sound like the PCM ones, but have "personality".

It has a 3 band eq with parametric mids, that works well. Only thing, the low freq in the eq is bit higher than I'd liked it to be, more in the low-mid range.

Overall, I'm really happy with it, especially considering its price, 350£ second hand in really good conditions.

I'd really recommend this, and also the Mackie VLZ, especially the US made.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[Al Krow]

On 02/01/2023 at 20:47, Pirellithecat said:

Happy New Year Al.    How's the Zoom L8 panning out?   
I've finally managed to get some interest for going in Ears (well, me and the Drummer at least!!), which means, if I can convince the others, we'll need at least 4 monitor mixes .... so potentially a new mixer. 
How are you finding the onboard FX's on the L8 and is it straightforward to add an external source for stereo music provision during breaks etc??   

 

Thanks fella and the same to you! I've started getting up to speed on the L8 - we used it successfully with our RCF 912As on Sat night.

 

In answer to your Qs:

- The on-board FX seems straightforward enough to use - just for reverb for the singers currently. I like the fact that it auto-stores the EQ setting used for each channel and that it has a low cut (i.e. HPF) which I'm just using for bass.

- Channels 7 and 8 are both stereo, but we've currently not made use of them.

 

The added bonus is that the L8 and its larger siblings are very much also aimed at being an audio interface, so it looks like I'll be able to move my (I'll have to confess as still yet unused!) Motu M4 on, and recoup some of cash on the L8, which was already extremely good value to start with.

[fleabag]

This might be a tad horrifying to compact desk officianados, but we have 3 guitars ,  keys, bass, 4 mics, drumkit.

 

The weirdest thing is that the desk  ( Soundcraft LX7 ll ) was found by the rhyth git in a skip at the private school he works at.  They lobbed it away.

He saw it and chucked it in the boot of his Audi.

 

It's  bigger than we need but, hey.