The compact mixing desk thread

[Al Krow]

Whereas one of the things I'm loving about the budget Zoom L-8 is just how compact it is! 

[JohnDaBass]

1 hour ago, fleabag said:

 

The weirdest thing is that the desk  ( Soundcraft LX7 ll ) was found by the rhyth git in a skip at the private school he works at.  They lobbed it away.

He saw it and chucked it in the boot of his Audi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow that's a posh school!!

[fleabag]

30 grand a year per pupil, he tells me

[Al Krow]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:21, dave_bass5 said:

This is pretty much what im finding, and it’s bloody annoying. I use a small 8 channel desk for my keys. I only use two stereo channels, i dont need all of them. I plan on using a mic for room ambience for IEM’s. With our main desk I can have this in stereo and my IEM’s/keys in stereo, but with my small desk im going to have to put it all through an mono Aux, and go down to mono, just  the mic doesn't come out of the mains. Why cant they put a pre/post fade switch, a mute etc, on these small ones. All these small mixers seem to lack functions that the larger ones have, but not everyone needs a 12-16 etc channel desk. 

Just reading back, and actually the Zoom L-8 has pretty much all the functionality you're looking for on a small desk, other than pre/post fade. 

[Al Krow]

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Edited January 19, 2023 by Al Krow
Duplicate post

[EBS_freak]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:21, dave_bass5 said:

This is pretty much what im finding, and it’s bloody annoying. I use a small 8 channel desk for my keys. I only use two stereo channels, i dont need all of them. I plan on using a mic for room ambience for IEM’s. With our main desk I can have this in stereo and my IEM’s/keys in stereo, but with my small desk im going to have to put it all through an mono Aux, and go down to mono, just  the mic doesn't come out of the mains. Why cant they put a pre/post fade switch, a mute etc, on these small ones. All these small mixers seem to lack functions that the larger ones have, but not everyone needs a 12-16 etc channel desk. 

https://www.radialeng.com/product/key-largo

[dave_bass5]

54 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

https://www.radialeng.com/product/key-largo

Yeah, I looked at that a while ago. Not going to work and too expensive. 
The Mackie i got is perfect. I can route any channel to only phones/main or both. Very handy. 

[Chienmortbb]

18 hours ago, fleabag said:

30 grand a year per pupil, he tells me

If I had the money or political inclination to send my kids there, I would want to know why they a throwing £thousands in the skip. 

[EBS_freak]

12 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yeah, I looked at that a while ago. Not going to work and too expensive. 
The Mackie i got is perfect. I can route any channel to only phones/main or both. Very handy. 

Ah yeah, it wont give your the aux on feed on the mic. Sorrrreee....

[dave_bass5]

7 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Ah yeah, it wont give your the aux on feed on the mic. Sorrrreee....

No problem. if I wasn’t using an ambient mic I’d still be using the little Behringer desk, but as good as it is it lacked this one feature. 

 

[JPJ]

I’m a huge Behringer X-Air fan, having used the XR18 for about five years. I have mine racked up in a 6U rack case, along with a 1U draw for all your essential cables/adapters/iPad etc, and the obligatory DriveRack (great when you are mixing FOH from the side of the stage whilst playing). The essential external router, in my case an Apple AirPort Express is velcro’d to the top of the draw unit, and I have a patch bay in the rear for the connections to the tops and subs. I added an X-Touch controller (along with a clever magnetic overlay) for on-the-fly adjustments as physical faders are much easier than the iPad for quick changes. 

 

I recently experienced a strange ‘dead’ aux out which I eventually tracked down to being a routing issue, and this was causing me to consider moving the Behringer on, but now shes fully functioning again I see no need and will instead focus on upgrading the tops and subs (currently 2x EV ZLX15P & 2 x Peavey 400W powered bass bins). 

 

Obviously my setup could hardly be called ‘compact’ but I get some nice compliments on the sound we achieve across the two bands I am involved with, and I have had a few other bands ask me to do sound for them so I must be doing something right. NOTE: in the third photo I was using the MacBook to record all outputs at a ‘technical rehearsal’ for my newest band and normally, the X-Touch would sit on top of the rack case with the iPad propped up in the open lid on the meters screen.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

If I had the money or political inclination to send my kids there, I would want to know why they a throwing £thousands in the skip. 

 

If you had the money and political inclination to send your kids there, you probably wouldn't care!

 

 

47 minutes ago, JPJ said:

 

 

What size is the case for the X-Touch. I was wanting to get a hard case for it, but couldn't find one the right size

[JPJ]

42 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

What size is the case for the X-Touch. I was wanting to get a hard case for it, but couldn't find one the right size

Good question, It’s a ‘Pulse’ universal flightcase this one

[DaytonaRik]

20 hours ago, JPJ said:

I’m a huge Behringer X-Air fan, having used the XR18 for about five years...

 

 

 

 

The entire Behringer X-Air / Xnn stuff is exceptional value for money and offers so much in terms of functionality in a very small footprint or rack mount option for the X32 Rack.

 

I saw this video on YouTube that shows just what you get out of the X18 - the X32 Rack is just even more of the same.

 

I really can't see why most small bands don't have one of these or a similar from another manufacturer in their setup 

 

 

[Woodinblack]

20 hours ago, JPJ said:

Good question, It’s a ‘Pulse’ universal flightcase this one

 

Figures that noone actually sells that one below £60!

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

The entire Behringer X-Air / Xnn stuff is exceptional value for money and offers so much in terms of functionality in a very small footprint or rack mount option for the X32 Rack.

 

I saw this video on YouTube that shows just what you get out of the X18 - the X32 Rack is just even more of the same.

 

I really can't see why most small bands don't have one of these or a similar from another manufacturer in their setup 

 

In terms of your entirely valid question of "why most small bands don't have one of these or a similar from another manufacturer in their setup" - I think some bands prefer to have the immediacy of onboard controls and faders, rather than being obliged to use a separate tablet or phone, either from an accuracy of adjustment perspective (sliders on a tablet or phone won't generally have the precision of a manual slider) or from a performance delay perspective i.e. needing to fire up a tablet or unlock a phone mid-set, which can't so easily be done anyway whilst holding a microphone in one hand etc. 

[DaytonaRik]

42 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

In terms of your entirely valid question of "why most small bands don't have one of these or a similar from another manufacturer in their setup" - I think some bands prefer to have the immediacy of onboard controls and faders, rather than being obliged to use a separate tablet or phone, either from an accuracy of adjustment perspective (sliders on a tablet or phone won't generally have the precision of a manual slider) or from a performance delay perspective i.e. needing to fire up a tablet or unlock a phone mid-set, which can't so easily be done anyway whilst holding a microphone in one hand etc. 

 

I'd argue the opposite - previously a desk would have been shoe horned in somewhere on the side of a stage or perched on an amp somewhere, where now my iPad is on my mic-stand right in front of me with the DCA pane running - one mute button for each DCA group and a single fader for all instruments in that DCA group - kit, backline, vocals, monitors, FX and Aux's (iPod, ambient mic's etc)  I can usually manage to make small adjustments on the fly.

 

Also the ability to save your gig and recall it next time you're at the venue does away with a lot of the sound checking - bring instrument levels back up to the same gain levels as the last time you played that venue (and stop the guitarists fiddling with the volume/fgain once you're done!) and you're 90% of the way there  - monitor, IEM and FOH EQ's and levels, FX levels, channel volumes and EQs,  - all saved.

 

Maybe as I've worked in IT all my life (now coming up to working in that industry for 37 years) technology doesn't hold any fears - mixing is mixing is mixing...it's just that now it's done on my tablet (or control surface if preferred) rather than on a desk...which wouldn't have been in right in front of me anyway!

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by DaytonaRik

[Chienmortbb]

59 minutes ago, DaytonaRik said:

The entire Behringer X-Air / Xnn stuff is exceptional value for money and offers so much in terms of functionality in a very small footprint or rack mount option for the X32 Rack.

 

I saw this video on YouTube that shows just what you get out of the X18 - the X32 Rack is just even more of the same.

 

I really can't see why most small bands don't have one of these or a similar from another manufacturer in their setup 

 

 

I used one a few times before buying the Soundcraft UI16. The WiFi was truly dreadful, letting go several times during gigs. I also liked the fact that no app was required for the Soundcraft. In fairness, the UI16 was only marginally better on WiFi initially. I found that later that the many devices are set to search for the strongest WiFi signal with internet connected networks prefered. 

 

When you realise how flexible these mixers are, it makes no sense using an analogue mixer. My firts analogue mixer was a RamsaWR-S4412 and it blew my mond seeing all those controls and what the hell was an Aux bus?

 

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

I'd argue the opposite - previously a desk would have been shoe horned in somewhere on the side of a stage or perched on an amp somewhere, where now my iPad is on my mic-stand right in front of me with the DCA pane running - one mute button for each DCA group and a single fader for all instruments in that DCA group - kit, backline, vocals, monitors, FX and Aux's (iPod, ambient mic's etc)  I can usually manage to make small adjustments on the fly.

 

Also the ability to save your gig and recall it next time you're at the venue does away with a lot of the sound checking - bring instrument levels back up to the same gain levels as the last time you played that venue (and stop the guitarists fiddling with the volume/fgain once you're done!) and you're 90% of the way there  - monitor, IEM and FOH EQ's and levels, FX levels, channel volumes and EQs,  - all saved.

 

Maybe as I've worked in IT all my life (now coming up to working in that industry for 37 years) technology doesn't hold any fears - mixing is mixing is mixing...it's just that now it's done on my tablet (or control surface if preferred) rather than on a desk...which wouldn't have been in right in front of me anyway!

 

 

All good points. But does that effectively mean only you have access to the mixer on a gig?

 

Digital desks can typically remember settings too. 

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

In terms of your entirely valid question of "why most small bands don't have one of these or a similar from another manufacturer in their setup" - I think some bands prefer to have the immediacy of onboard controls and faders, rather than being obliged to use a separate tablet or phone, either from an accuracy of adjustment perspective (sliders on a tablet or phone won't generally have the precision of a manual slider) or from a performance delay perspective i.e. needing to fire up a tablet or unlock a phone mid-set, which can't so easily be done anyway whilst holding a microphone in one hand etc. 

This.

Digital mixers are cheap for what they do. Digital mixers aren't cheap when you factor in all the things to make them work. Digital mixers aren't cheap if you are only using them to mix a few channels and make no use of any of the DSP.

If there are people that are fairly clueless, the ability to pull a slider down when the system goes into uncontrollable feedback is a more appealing feature than unlocking and faffing with a tablet. This is why things like the A&H are more appealing to a lot of people... but at the cost. The Zoom is probably that crossover sweetspot.

[Jakester]

2 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

I'd argue the opposite - previously a desk would have been shoe horned in somewhere on the side of a stage or perched on an amp somewhere, where now my iPad is on my mic-stand right in front of me with the DCA pane running - one mute button for each DCA group and a single fader for all instruments in that DCA group - kit, backline, vocals, monitors, FX and Aux's (iPod, ambient mic's etc)  I can usually manage to make small adjustments on the fly.

 

Also the ability to save your gig and recall it next time you're at the venue does away with a lot of the sound checking - bring instrument levels back up to the same gain levels as the last time you played that venue (and stop the guitarists fiddling with the volume/fgain once you're done!) and you're 90% of the way there  - monitor, IEM and FOH EQ's and levels, FX levels, channel volumes and EQs,  - all saved.

 

Maybe as I've worked in IT all my life (now coming up to working in that industry for 37 years) technology doesn't hold any fears - mixing is mixing is mixing...it's just that now it's done on my tablet (or control surface if preferred) rather than on a desk...which wouldn't have been in right in front of me anyway!

 

 

I ended up with a digital desk with a smallish physical control surface - I found trying to adjust on an iPad while playing next to impossible. I replaced my XR18 with a QSC Touchmix which has all the features of the XR18 but IME/O easier access to the controls while playing. It also does the iPad/phone control if required.

 

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

In terms of your entirely valid question of "why most small bands don't have one of these or a similar from another manufacturer in their setup" - I think some bands prefer to have the immediacy of onboard controls and faders, rather than being obliged to use a separate tablet or phone, either from an accuracy of adjustment perspective (sliders on a tablet or phone won't generally have the precision of a manual slider) or from a performance delay perspective i.e. needing to fire up a tablet or unlock a phone mid-set, which can't so easily be done anyway whilst holding a microphone in one hand etc. 

 

Definitely. 

[Chienmortbb]

49 minutes ago, Jakester said:

 

I ended up with a digital desk with a smallish physical control surface - I found trying to adjust on an iPad while playing next to impossible. I replaced my XR18 with a QSC Touchmix which has all the features of the XR18 but IME/O easier access to the controls while playing. It also does the iPad/phone control if required.

 

 

Definitely. 

I have my iPad attached to my mic stand. With the slider is big enough, to grab quickly if I need it, but I fully understand the comfort a knob can bring.

 

[dave_bass5]

Must admit the L-12 looks very tempting for my band. I see no need for a desk upgrade at the moment, if it works it works so why change it?, but if i can convince them to go to IEM’s then it looks perfect. 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by dave_bass5

[Al Krow]

So...my desk saga continues! I picked up a Zoom Livetrack L-8 and was actually quite impressed at its feature-set and portability, particularly for the money. Unfortunately I found the model I had wasn't particularly well shielded and ended up with a high pitched hum with the IEMs we'd got for the band, which we weren't getting with other speakers.

 

The Zoom had 4 headphone outs which was ideal for my 4 piece, so I've looked for something similar in a budget mixer and ended up getting the desk from the make I actually mentioned in the OP of this thread - in my case a Soundcraft Signature 12MTK. However having spent a bit of time with it, I've found an unhelpful issue in using the unit:

 

The output from all three aux outputs is directed to just one of a pair of stereo speakers or to just one ear on a pair of headphones. This is irrespective of whether it is a TS (mono) input from an ¼” instrument jack or a TRS stereo input eg from headphone out of a phone playing Spotify into both the left and right stereo inputs of the desk. A dual-speaker or headphone stereo output is, however, available from the dedicated headphone out.

 

Is this to be expected with the aux-outs? If it was going to a monitor it would be a non-issue, but going to headphones (other than ironically the Xvive U4 IEMs a couple of our band have got as they are mono rather than stereo) this isn't going to be great.

[Jakester]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So...my desk saga continues! I picked up a Zoom Livetrack L-8 and was actually quite impressed at its feature-set and portability, particularly for the money. Unfortunately I found the model I had wasn't particularly well shielded and ended up with a high pitched hum with the IEMs we'd got for the band, which we weren't getting with other speakers.

 

The Zoom had 4 headphone outs which was ideal for my 4 piece, so I've looked for something similar in a budget mixer and ended up getting the desk from the make I actually mentioned in the OP of this thread - in my case a Soundcraft Signature 12MTK. However having spent a bit of time with it, I've found an unhelpful issue in using the unit:

 

The output from all three aux outputs is directed to just one of a pair of stereo speakers or to just one ear on a pair of headphones. This is irrespective of whether it is a TS (mono) input from an ¼” instrument jack or a TRS stereo input eg from headphone out of a phone playing Spotify into both the left and right stereo inputs of the desk. A dual-speaker or headphone stereo output is, however, available from the dedicated headphone out.

 

Is this to be expected with the aux-outs? If it was going to a monitor it would be a non-issue, but going to headphones (other than ironically the Xvive U4 IEMs a couple of our band have got as they are mono rather than stereo) this isn't going to be great.

 

Unfortunately I think so - the aux outs are generally mono on these IIRC. 

 

Surprised you can't finagle or bodge a mono to double mono (i.e. same into both phones) for headphones though. 

 

I know I keep going on about it, and I know it's a LOT more expensive, but the QSC TM16 has two stereo headphone level auxes as well as 8 mono - if you want/need a lot of stereo auxes, that's a good way to do it. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Jakester