Pro bassists using budget gear

[crazycloud]

3 hours ago, neepheid said:

 

Because the basses are nice?

Because the bass player likes them?

Because they can?

Because it matches their outfit?

Because your definition of "expensive" might not be the same as theirs?

Anyone is free to do as they please, I merely offered my perspective. 

 

Inexpensive instruments are generally so good these days that I see little value in the more expensive versions, and I've had a ton of basses and guitars, very modest in cost to very expensive and have played them all live so have a pretty good perspective on performance to price. If I liked FSOs I doubt I would spend the coin to get a US P bass as it offers nothing to me that an SX/HB etc gives. Even if you change out the PU, tuners and bridge because there's something wrong with them, there'd still be a massive price differential paid for a tiny performance one. If say a Fender badge on the headstock means so much to you that you pay the premium for that, it's your money. I'm sure Laura Lee will be substantially better in performance and tone with an MIA.

Edited September 9, 2022 by crazycloud

[crazycloud]

Just now, Maude said:

But it sounds, plays and looks right for the band so why wouldn't I play it? 

I was typing in reply to another post, but sure, I just don't see any benefit in them. If you had your van stolen with your bass and you needed another, what does the more expensive one really offer in terms of performance and tone that many other inexpensive replacements would? Construction, fit and finish and parts in inexpensive basses are very good today, not like 40ya.

 

Sure, play what you like. I've played my (now sold) Alembic in a sketchy bar, but I'd prefer not to have the risk of an irreplaceable instrument being stolen or damaged. Few if any punters are going to tell the difference between it and an SX P, if I'd set the Alembic up for a classic tone.

[Maude]

1 minute ago, crazycloud said:

I was typing in reply to another post, but sure, I just don't see any benefit in them. If you had your van stolen with your bass and you needed another, what does the more expensive one really offer in terms of performance and tone that many other inexpensive replacements would? Construction, fit and finish and parts in inexpensive basses are very good today, not like 40ya.

 

Sure, play what you like. I've played my (now sold) Alembic in a sketchy bar, but I'd prefer not to have the risk of an irreplaceable instrument being stolen or damaged. Few if any punters are going to tell the difference between it and an SX P, if I'd set the Alembic up for a classic tone.

I do actually agree with everything in your post. I spent a summer gigging an Aria P bass I picked up for £40 because it played so nicely. 

I'd happily spend the rest of my days gigging cheap, well set up instruments but the luxury of disposable income means I can gig higher cost ones as well, if wanted. 

I'm at both ends of the spectrum, by that I mean I see no reason to not gig an expensive bass, but at the same time I see no reason not to gig a budget bass. Just make sure that whatever you gig it's well set up to your needs. 

There's good budget and expensive basses, but there's also budget and expensive basses that play like dogs. 

[crazycloud]

4 minutes ago, Maude said:

I'm at both ends of the spectrum, by that I mean I see no reason to not gig an expensive bass, but at the same time I see no reason not to gig a budget bass.

We are in complete agreement.

[BigRedX]

15 minutes ago, crazycloud said:

I was typing in reply to another post, but sure, I just don't see any benefit in them. If you had your van stolen with your bass and you needed another, what does the more expensive one really offer in terms of performance and tone that many other inexpensive replacements would? Construction, fit and finish and parts in inexpensive basses are very good today, not like 40ya.

 

Sure, play what you like. I've played my (now sold) Alembic in a sketchy bar, but I'd prefer not to have the risk of an irreplaceable instrument being stolen or damaged. Few if any punters are going to tell the difference between it and an SX P, if I'd set the Alembic up for a classic tone.

 

Looks.

 

Given that most basses are capable of making the right noises in a band context, for me the most important thing is to have an instrument that has the right image for the band and the music we are playing, and in my personal case this generally means something unconventional. While there are plenty of perfectly serviceable instruments available if you want something anonymous looking, the basses (and guitars) that stand out generally tend to be at the pricier end of the market.

 

I suppose it helps that I don't have any interest in playing covers in dodgy pubs, so I've never worried about having my gear stolen, and TBH the main basses I use are so distinctive that if that was to happen, the thief would never be able to do anything with them other than admire them in the safety of their room.

 

I've owned ordinary looking instruments in the past, but no matter how well they played and sounded I could never really bond with them. Also I spent most of the 80s playing synths and in real terms these days even an expensive bass is very affordable compared with how much I spent on my first decent poly synth. It's all a matter of perspective really.

[neepheid]

51 minutes ago, crazycloud said:

Anyone is free to do as they please, I merely offered my perspective. I'm sorry you felt so triggered. No, actually, I'm not.

 

TL:DR blah blah blah, sarcasm

 

u ok hun?

 

[dclaassen]

This is an interesting discussion. For me, it depends on the gig…rock/pop/country= Jazz bass…nice but not irreplaceable. Jazz or pit work=fretted + fretless 5…nicer and hard to replace. I am not very picky about how a bass looks, but am obsessive about how it feels and sounds in the appropriate context.

 

 I guess the other thing worth mentioning…I know quite a few US military bassist, and they are playing top-drawer kit, both because they can and also because they need to be really flexible across a wide range of groups and styles. If I was in that situation, I’d like a really expensive bass as well.

[msb]

I always gigged a new bass until it paid for itself , and then went back to the old usual. 
I think I’ve stopped buying basses , but you never know. 

 

[Doddy]

4 hours ago, crazycloud said:

 Few if any punters are going to tell the difference between it and an SX P, if I'd set the Alembic up for a classic tone.

 

It's not about the punters though is it?  It's about playing what you like, and what sounds and feels (and looks) great. The only other person whose opinion might matter is the person who is hiring you, and they will be far more relaxed if you turn up with something decent because it's one less thing to worry about.

 

I've gigged inexpensive instruments but I'd much rather play one of my nice basses, which feel and play a hundred times better. I'd also rather someone say 'that bass sounds great' than 'that bass sounds great for the price'

[crazycloud]

6 hours ago, Doddy said:

I'd also rather someone say 'that bass sounds great' than 'that bass sounds great for the price'

I'd rather someone complimented me on how I played than what I played.

6 hours ago, Doddy said:

The only other person whose opinion might matter is the person who is hiring you, and they will be far more relaxed if you turn up with something decent because it's one less thing to worry about.

I've never found a promoter that could really tell what an instrument was, let alone tell the difference between say a red SX P and a Fender MIA P. As for 'less to worry about', in what way? I've never had a part on an inexpensive bass fail live (eg a tuner), and if they can't tell any difference, what's to worry about?

 

11 hours ago, BigRedX said:

and TBH the main basses I use are so distinctive that if that was to happen, the thief would never be able to do anything with them other than admire them in the safety of their room.

Doesn't stop rare and expensive artworks or historical artifacts being stolen, nor someone with a substance abuse problem stealing it and selling it for a few $, and in most places getting it back isn't always easy.

[SteveXFR]

16 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 the main basses I use are so distinctive that if that was to happen, the thief would never be able to do anything with them other than admire them in the safety of their room

 

Plenty of famous musicians have had very distinctive instruments  stolen. Klaus Flouride, Dead Kennedys bassist had probably the most distinctive and battered looking jazz bass in punk but that didn't stop it getting stolen. Doyle from Misfits guitars are home made one offs and he's had a couple stolen. 

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Plenty of famous musicians have had very distinctive instruments  stolen. Klaus Flouride, Dead Kennedys bassist had probably the most distinctive and battered looking jazz bass in punk but that didn't stop it getting stolen. Doyle from Misfits guitars are home made one offs and he's had a couple stolen. 

 

Ultimately though the DK jazz bass is just another Jazz bass and unless you're a bassist and a fan indistinguishable from any other Fender Jazz. As for the Misfits they will have been stolen because of who he is. Right now I'm a nobody. Besides if any of my gear gets nicked I can always replace it.

[Doddy]

8 hours ago, crazycloud said:

I'd rather someone complimented me on how I played than what I played.

I'd prefer both. No point playing amazingly if your instrument sounds less than ideal.

 

8 hours ago, crazycloud said:

I'd rather someone complimented me on how I played than what I played.

I've never found a promoter that could really tell what an instrument was, let alone tell the difference between say a red SX P and a Fender MIA P. As for 'less to worry about', in what way? I've never had a part on an inexpensive bass fail live (eg a tuner), and if they can't tell any difference, what's to worry about?

I'm not talking about promoters. I'm talking people band leaders and/or artists who hire you for a gig, or producers who book you for a session. If you turn up with a quality instrument, it puts peoples minds at ease that there won't be any issues with things like excess noise or intonation.  You don't want to be the one who is holding up a rehearsal/soundcheck/gig/session or whatever because the soundman or producer is hearing buzzing from your bass.

 

If you are playing in your own band and doing your own thing, play whatever you want, it's cool, but there is a reason why the list of pro players who use 'budget' instruments is a lot shorter than the list of pro players who use nicer instruments, especially in the sideman/session world.

[TimR]

That does depend on what level of Pro you're talking about. 

 

I deped for a band once where I'd never met the band before arriving at the gig.

 

The band leader took one look at me and my bass and said "Keep it simple, no flashy stuff, stick to the roots and watch me for the changes." 

 

I hadn't even played a note.

 

I was playing Jackson Charvel SB2. Since then I've bought something a bit less metal, but I've only just considered that he based his words on his first impression. 

[skidder652003]

On 05/09/2022 at 19:27, Dan Dare said:

I agree with those who say that "budget" should mean up to around £300 these days. All but the most budget of modern instruments are very good indeed. CNC machinery, etc ensures that tolerances and build quality are all on the money. The phrase "hand made", unless describing an expensive instrument, may well mean fit and finish is less good than it would be on a factory built instrument that has been made primarily by robots and machines (which don't have off days, fall sick or take holidays). Economies of scale and modern manufacturing methods mean we get a lot of functionality and quality for our money nowadays.

 

You tend to get better components when you spend more, but even that isn't a given. I have a £500 Cort that has Hipshot bridge and tuners and Bartolini p/us. Not top of the range Hipshot or Bart stuff, but perfectly decent. The fit and finish of it is way better than that of my 1972 J bass.

but which one would you grab in a house fire?

[Ed_S]

I've topped and tailed my collection over the last year to remove the cheap ones and the expensive ones, leaving just my favourite 'go-to' instruments in the middle-ground. They cost somewhere between about £850 and £1250 new, which seems to be the smart price range for me to get an instrument that feels right, looks good, is well made, is durable and hopefully sounds alright as well. Pay any more and I'm just lining myself up for a huge drop when I inevitably want a change. Pay any less and I'll start to fiddle with upgrades until I might as well have just bought the one I actually wanted.

 

Obviously we all have different circumstances, commitments, priorities and budgets, so I'm only saying what's true for me and absolutely not trying to tell anyone what I think should be true for them.

 

As a nod to the original question, I'd say that no, I've not seen many professionals at decent size gigs playing obviously budget gear. I've seen a lot of vintage gear being played by older artists, a lot of flagship new gear being played by artists with endorsement deals, and then a lot of stuff that falls in my middle-ground (ESP E-IIs, PRS S2s, Fender MIJs, Spector Euros, Ibanez Premiums etc.) being played by younger/aspiring/jobbing artists.

[crazycloud]

8 hours ago, Doddy said:

No point playing amazingly if your instrument sounds less than ideal.

Less than ideal, in what way? I'd put good money on most people, bassists included not being able to tell one bass from another in a mix, and often solo; see RIB13's recent video on P basses, and a large number of others I could post as well. Not to mention my own personal experience with this. Pickups are not rocket science and because they're inexpensive, doesn't mean they necessarily sound bad. 

 

8 hours ago, Doddy said:

I'm not talking about promoters. I'm talking people band leaders and/or artists who hire you for a gig, or producers who book you for a session. If you turn up with a quality instrument, it puts peoples minds at ease that there won't be any issues with things like excess noise or intonation.  You don't want to be the one who is holding up a rehearsal/soundcheck/gig/session or whatever because the soundman or producer is hearing buzzing from your bass.

Bass setup is not dependent on the quality a.k.a. price/name of an instrument and it's the muso's responsibility that the instrument you choose for that job is correctly set up. An SX P with a new PU if you think it needs it, and some time with a luthier doing a set up and fret dress and level, if needed, is still going to be cheaper than an MIA Fender, sound the same and work just as well. 

As for inspiring confidence, I've found that is more often reflected in attitude to the job, say turning up early and spending the time doing a run through to make sure it's perfect, and being enthusiastic and willing to help.

[crazycloud]

5 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

but which one would you grab in a house fire?

Based on the 70s Fenders I've owned and as a player's instrument, the Cort. Based on $ value the 72, but it would also depend on what it was insured for. I'd rather have my player and the insurance settlement for the 72.

The only instrument I'd grab has sentimental value and can't be replaced for that reason.

[Jack]

On 06/09/2022 at 16:29, SteveXFR said:

 

A lot of them seem to be using Epiphone or Squier budget instruments. Why would Fender or Gibson choose to sponsor pros with their budget kit? 

 

People like Pete Wentz get signature Squires because the kids that like Fall Out Boy can't afford Fender. 

[mikel]

On a personal note, I would much rather stumble on a cheap bass that sounds and plays superbly, and gets loads of positive feedback from other musos, than a top end super expensive "Name" bass that does the same. Because I would expect the top end bass to sound great, and so would everyone else. Nothing beats a one in a thousand cheapy blowing the doors off. 

[Downunderwonder]

20 hours ago, TimR said:

Jackson Charvel SB2

Pointy Bass Headstock = Sticky Out Basslines.

 

Everyone knows this!

[AntLockyer]

I've only got expensive basses, what am I supposed to play on a gig now?

[chris_b]

On 10/09/2022 at 11:21, Doddy said:

I'm not talking about promoters. I'm talking people band leaders and/or artists who hire you for a gig, or producers who book you for a session. If you turn up with a quality instrument, it puts peoples minds at ease that there won't be any issues with things like excess noise or intonation.  You don't want to be the one who is holding up a rehearsal/soundcheck/gig/session or whatever because the soundman or producer is hearing buzzing from your bass.

 

If you are playing in your own band and doing your own thing, play whatever you want, it's cool, but there is a reason why the list of pro players who use 'budget' instruments is a lot shorter than the list of pro players who use nicer instruments, especially in the sideman/session world.

 

This.

 

You gotta sound good. Use the gear that makes you sound the best you can be, but what you play gets you the gigs.

 

I've played with many guys who have asked if I'll join their side projects. I've also been asked to join a band by a band leader who was in the audience. Every gig is an audition.

 

I'd say you can play any bass as long as you make it sound good and play well, but @Doddy is right, the further you travel into the pro world, more is expected of you and your gear.

[tredders]

On 10/09/2022 at 12:34, TimR said:

I deped for a band once where I'd never met the band before arriving at the gig.

 

The band leader took one look at me and my bass and said "Keep it simple, no flashy stuff, stick to the roots and watch me for the changes." 

 

Was he Marty McFly?  😀

Edited September 16, 2022 by tredders