Amp to flat

[Paddy515]

When I want my ABM 3 setting to flat, where should I position the eq knobs/sliders?

 

Bill Fitz mentioned that all to 50%/12 o'clock wasnt necessarily the answer.

[BigRedX]

There is no true "flat" setting for any instrument amp. They all have some degree of baked-in sound. That's why you pick one brand/model over the others, because it has a baked-in sound that you find pleasing.

[Merton]

  On 06/09/2022 at 09:27, Paddy515 said:

When I want my ABM 3 setting to flat, where should I position the eq knobs/sliders?

 

Bill Fitz mentioned that all to 50%/12 o'clock wasnt necessarily the answer.

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There is a EQ bypass button, use that.

[BruceBass3901]

  On 06/09/2022 at 09:58, Merton said:

There is a EQ bypass button, use that.

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This is the best option on the ABM.

 

Also worth checking that the Shape button is pressed in (disengaged).

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

  On 06/09/2022 at 09:58, Merton said:

There is a EQ bypass button, use that.

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That still doesn't guarantee flat, as most pre-amps have some degree of pre-shape. Besides that, speakers aren't flat. Chances are if you did get truly flat you wouldn't like it anyway, as flat sounds quite sterile. I've never understood why anyone would want it flat.

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2022 at 11:42, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That still doesn't guarantee flat, as most pre-amps have some degree of pre-shape. Besides that, speakers aren't flat. Chances are if you did get truly flat you wouldn't like it anyway, as flat sounds quite sterile. I've never understood why anyone would want it flat.

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That's curious - AFAIK the Handbox preamp is near-as-damn-it flat at 12 o'clock (happy to be convinced otherwise), and I love it flat.

Edited September 6, 2022 by wateroftyne

[Paddy515]

  On 06/09/2022 at 11:42, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That still doesn't guarantee flat, as most pre-amps have some degree of pre-shape. Besides that, speakers aren't flat. Chances are if you did get truly flat you wouldn't like it anyway, as flat sounds quite sterile. I've never understood why anyone would want it flat.

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To then introduce the eq settings little by little until I arrive at my prefered tone

[Merton]

  On 06/09/2022 at 11:42, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That still doesn't guarantee flat, as most pre-amps have some degree of pre-shape. Besides that, speakers aren't flat. Chances are if you did get truly flat you wouldn't like it anyway, as flat sounds quite sterile. I've never understood why anyone would want it flat.

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No indeed, but in terms of “without EQ influence from the preamp controls” this is the answer

Edited September 6, 2022 by Merton

[BigRedX]

  On 06/09/2022 at 11:46, wateroftyne said:

 

That's curious - AFAIK the Handbox preamp is near-as-damn-it flat at 12 o'clock (happy to be convinced otherwise), and I love it flat.

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How can you tell? That's a genuine question.

 

If you could put an oscilloscope on the input and output signals and show that they were identical other than an increase in amplitude then you could say the amp was flat. I defy anyone to be able to prove that.

 

What you probably mean is that with all the controls at 12 o'clock your amp gives you a sound you like. Nothing wrong with that, but I doubt that it's flat.

 

Given all that the OP might as well turn off any tonal presets the amp may have, put all the controls to their centre position and then adjust them (ideally only using cut) until they arrive at their desired sound.

 

 

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2022 at 13:39, BigRedX said:

 

How can you tell? That's a genuine question.

 

If you could put an oscilloscope on the input and output signals and show that they were identical other than an increase in amplitude then you could say the amp was flat. I defy anyone to be able to prove that.

 

What you probably mean is that with all the controls at 12 o'clock your amp gives you a sound you like. Nothing wrong with that, but I doubt that it's flat.

 

Given all that the OP might as well turn off any tonal presets the amp may have, put all the controls to their centre position and then adjust them (ideally only using cut) until they arrive at their desired sound.

 

 

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Yes, my assumption that it is flat is based entirely on my assessment that it sounds flat 😄

 

Not really. It's based on the plot that Leszek sent me back in the day.

 

 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Most active EQs have similar plots. It doesn't show what's happening elsewhere in the amp. As to what sounds flat, you have to take into consideration both the coloration added by the speaker and the effect of equal loudness. Once you do so it's impossible to say that a particular amp sounds flat.

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2022 at 15:39, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Most active EQs have similar plots. It doesn't show what's happening elsewhere in the amp. As to what sounds flat, you have to take into consideration both the coloration added by the speaker and the effect of equal loudness. Once you do so it's impossible to say that a particular amp sounds flat.

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I understand there are other factors, but we're specifically talking about flat EQ here... aren't we?

[itu]

Even hifi amps can have hidden eqs: a flat switch may turn on some extra bass while bypassing treble, bass, loudness etc.

[Dan Dare]

I agree with Bill. "Flat" does sound sterile, at least in a live context, when you almost always need to emphasize or tame certain frequencies to compensate for room acoustics, etc. However, truly "flat" is a bit of a myth.

 

There's no such thing as "a piece of straight wire with gain", to quote Peter Walker of Quad. Any component in the chain introduces some form of colouration/sonic signature. Switching eq out of circuit or setting eq to 12 o' clock does not remove the componentry that produces gain, which will also have been chosen by the designer to give their preferred nominally "flat" result.

 

The instruments we play are not even "flat". They convert physical vibrations into electricity via sensing those vibrations within a magnetic field and turning them into a minute electrical signal courtesy of a coil round the magnets. The power of the magnets, number of turns in the coil, pots, onboard eq circuitry, etc all affect/colour the signal before it even reaches the amp.

 

There's little point in even attempting to get a "flat" response. It's interesting to close your eyes and set your eq solely by how it sounds. You can be surprised when you see where the knobs end up.

 

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2022 at 16:21, Dan Dare said:

I agree with Bill. "Flat" does sound sterile, at least in a live context, when you almost always need to emphasize or tame certain frequencies to compensate for room acoustics, etc. However, truly "flat" is a bit of a myth.

 

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Problem is (for me, anyway) many builders favour a baked-in scoop by default, which does nowt for me.

[itu]

The fancy "flat" sound works in the shop, but finding your own sound takes some effort and time. Take the pot hats away, tune the sound, and put the hats back adjusted to noon.

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2022 at 16:37, itu said:

The fancy "flat" sound works in the shop, but finding your own sound takes some effort and time. Take the pot hats away, tune the sound, and put the hats back adjusted to noon.

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I actually find the opposite. Scooped in the shop, all nice and smooth. But for me, the energy and character is in the middle.

[Dan Dare]

  On 06/09/2022 at 16:26, wateroftyne said:

 

Problem is (for me, anyway) many builders favour a baked-in scoop by default, which does nowt for me.

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I certainly agree with that. You need those mids for the classic P or J bass sounds.

[Beedster]

Human audio sensation and perception are very far from 'flat', and are also highly variable between different individuals and within the same individual over time (as is evidenced by audio fatigue in recording), so the rest is probably moot 👍

[wateroftyne]

So... we're saying it doesn't matter what, if any, baked-in EQ an amp has because our hearing and speakers are all different.

 

Makes me wonder even more why the EQ is just left flat by default so we can just make our own minds up 😄

[Beedster]

  On 06/09/2022 at 17:04, wateroftyne said:

So... we're saying it doesn't matter what, if any, baked-in EQ an amp has because our hearing and speakers are all different.

 

Makes me wonder even more why the EQ is just left flat by default so we can just make our own minds up 😄

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Absolutely, play to what it sounds like to you, your bandmates and audience, the settings on the amp or bass are entirely meaningless. Certain neural signals trigger certain responses that we like or don't like. Flat perhaps suggests the latter but simply doesn't exist in any real sense. The 'baked-in' thing is as much product/market differentiation as anything else, as with all audio and instruments 👍 

[Beedster]

  On 06/09/2022 at 11:46, wateroftyne said:

 

That's curious - AFAIK the Handbox preamp is near-as-damn-it flat at 12 o'clock (happy to be convinced otherwise), and I love it flat.

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Which means that you love it's baked in tone, which is why we choose the gear we choose. But it's not flat, if it was flat why would you love Handbox flat more than Ashdown or Ampeg flat? 

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2022 at 18:40, Beedster said:

 

Which means that you love it's baked in tone, which is why we choose the gear we choose. But it's not flat, if it was flat why would you love Handbox flat more than Ashdown or Ampeg flat? 

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Have you ever tried to get flat on a walkabout? 😄

[Beedster]

  On 06/09/2022 at 18:45, wateroftyne said:

Have you ever tried to get flat on a walkabout? 😄

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No, it can't do flat in any simple way, sounds great with all controls at 12.00, but it ain't flat, it's that lovely baked in Boogie tone 

 

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2022 at 18:49, Beedster said:

 

No, it can't do flat in any simple way, sounds great with all controls at 12.00, but it ain't flat, it's that lovely baked in Boogie tone 

 

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Almost but not quite for me. All those knobs and I couldn’t put back what was (IMO) missing.