Talk to me about the pitfalls and vagaries of having a 12 string bass built (Eee Aaa Ddd Ggg)

[warwickhunt]

16 minutes ago, Richard R said:

Do you think you will get any fewer gigs playing a 4 string look-a-like compared to the real thing or a replica? Do you think the fans who come will throw things at you if you play a 4 with a false headstock, or just be mightily impressed that you took the time to look the part?

 

I would go with @3below's suggestion. And keep looking.

 

Absolutely, this is my 'personal' dilemma!  

 

I know PLENTY tribute bands of other genre/style and many don't buy a bog standard copy of what an iconic guitarist/bassist might have used (I'll not go down the clothing/styling/wig route), so do I need to get hung up... probably not but I would like to get as close as possible... within reason.  

 

I have and am presently following several of the paths already suggested or at least some of the less expensive routes.  I own a Bolin NS bass which isn't dissimilar to the Hamer B12A in outline which could be used as is or a facsimile of a 12 string headstock put on the face. 

 

 

I won't give up on sourcing the correct bass but as I've been a CT fan for over 40 years and probably actively looked for one of his basses for most of that time (depending on my income at any given time).     

[JPJ]

Hmmm I think the real challenge here is going to be getting all you want for sub 9lbs without neck dive. 

 

Considering the outlay, my approach would be to buy a donor and reshape the body to what you want it to be. That’s the sort of shed challenge I relish, and at the end of the day your outlay will be significantly less than the full custom option. If the trib really takes off, then you can spend your earnings on either a full custom or original version. 

 

Just a thought, but have you checked all the cases in your music room to make sure you haven’t already accidentally purchased one in a late night drunken eBay session?

[warwickhunt]

14 minutes ago, JPJ said:

Just a thought, but have you checked all the cases in your music room to make sure you haven’t already accidentally purchased one in a late night drunken eBay session?

 

Ouch... harsh but fair!    

 

I think I've accepted that sub 9lb AND balanced AND 12 string are mutually exclusive and can't be achieved in 1 package.  A bit like Hoffman's Law, I'm going to be going for 2 out of 3 or accepting all 3 will be a compromised bass but that's to be expected.

 

Buying a donor 12 in itself is proving 'very' difficult.  A bolt on neck would likely be required for it to work but they are virtually non-existent and I'm not about to go down the route of making a dual truss rod NT bass from scratch.  I suppose I could buy a 12 string NT and chop the wings/body off but I'm back to sourcing the donor.  

 

...I may have an update coming shortly; watch this space.  It's probably going to open a whole other can of worms... gulp.  

[Richard R]

50 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

I own a Bolin NS bass which isn't dissimilar to the Hamer B12A in outline which could be used as is or a facsimile of a 12 string headstock put on the face. 

 

Lovely bass.

Third option:   Make a cardboard print-out of the headstock, get it signed by CT's bass player when they are in London in a couple of weeks time, copy it for spares, and stick that on with blu-tak.  I think that idea would amuse the band, and the fans, and definitely be a talking point.

 

[warwickhunt]

6 minutes ago, Richard R said:

...get it signed by CT's bass player when they are in London in a couple of weeks time,

 

 

You have insider knowledge of them being in the UK... pray tell more. 

 

[Richard R]

32 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

You have insider knowledge of them being in the UK... pray tell more. 

 

 

  No insider knowledge at all! Having read this thread I thought I should listen to them again for the first time in years, and Spotify listed them as playing The Shepherds' Bush Empire in October Checking the website it seems that was cancelled. 😞

 

[warwickhunt]

5 minutes ago, Richard R said:

 

  No insider knowledge at all! Having read this thread I thought I should listen to them again for the first time in years, and Spotify listed them as playing The Shepherds' Bush Empire in October Checking the website it seems that was cancelled. 😞

 

 

Yeah the UK leg was cancelled (again).  I've had tickets for the Newcastle show for a while which was rescheduled and then dropped all together. 

 

[LukeFRC]

The other option is buy a paddle stock 5 string neck and build your own body and try build one yourself - that would be the cheaper and doable way - unless do 12 strings need two truss rods or something? 

[Richard R]

2 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Yeah the UK leg was cancelled (again).  I've had tickets for the Newcastle show for a while which was rescheduled and then dropped all together. 

 

They were a little before my time, so I only know some of the hits and hadn't ever  listened properly. I hadn't realised how funny the lyrics are!  Have to keep an eye out now.

[warwickhunt]

1 minute ago, Richard R said:

They were a little before my time, so I only know some of the hits and hadn't ever  listened properly. I hadn't realised how funny the lyrics are!  Have to keep an eye out now.

 

Quite dark lyrical content at times but often delivered in a way that wasn't obvious.  Songs about suicide are multiple (due to a friend of theirs committing suicide); they also have a go at sexism, misogyny, pedophilia, among other cheery topics... and then you have 'I want you to want me' which (iirc) the vocalist once said he wishes he'd been dumb enough to write a few more of those!  Their first album from '77 still does it for me though and oddly not one single song recorded on a 12 string bass!  

[warwickhunt]

10 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

The other option is buy a paddle stock 5 string neck and build your own body and try build one yourself - that would be the cheaper and doable way - unless do 12 strings need two truss rods or something? 

 

I don't think there has been a successful 12 string neck with a single truss rod. 

 

You are also back to the paradox that the neck needs to be wide enough for 12 strings (50mm would literally be pushing it) and the headstock long enough for 12 machine heads, which pretty much eliminates off the shelf short / medium scale... and you are back into costing 12 string hardware (bridges are custom jobbies).  I'm not sure my skills would be up to creating this monster any way.    

 

However, this is all good for me as it clarifies my thinking when I answer perfectly reasonable suggestions.  

[JPJ]

You could of course get creative and take a different approach to the tuner position for one set of drone strings and in doing so reduce the number of tuners on the headstock. Doing something like this BC Rich but using banjo tuners a la Gibson Firebirds?

Edited September 12, 2022 by JPJ

[warwickhunt]

I know what you mean about tuner location Kev and it was an early consideration but I start to get into the realms of it not being aesthetically correct and that being the case I have lots of options opening up.  On a sliding scale I have:

 

[bugger-it I'll just play a 4 string] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [I'll purchase one of Tom's actual basses]

 

Somewhere on that scale all other options sit and aren't excluded or dismissed.

[Jakester]

Presumably you've seen the Dug Pinnick? 

 

https://www.peachguitars.com/schecter-doug-pinnick-dp-12-black.htm?opt=34390&gclid=CjwKCAjwsfuYBhAZEiwA5a6CDFnAV8h5uGJqnYn-Jw4Lg-o9m9ecfdzbMcA-X-GavOwClBNHzkDZ_xoCyWoQAvD_BwE

 

Could that not just be refinished/headstock reshaped?

[3below]

4 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

I know what you mean about tuner location Kev and it was an early consideration but I start to get into the realms of it not being aesthetically correct and that being the case I have lots of options opening up.  On a sliding scale I have:

 

[bugger-it I'll just play a 4 string] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [I'll purchase one of Tom's actual basses]

 

Somewhere on that scale all other options sit and aren't excluded or dismissed.

And on the other sliding scale

 

£ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> £££££££

[warwickhunt]

Just now, 3below said:

And on the other sliding scale

 

£ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> £££££££

 

That is about correct £0.00 > £5000 (I have to impose a limit somewhere).

[JPJ]

10 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

I know what you mean about tuner location Kev and it was an early consideration but I start to get into the realms of it not being aesthetically correct and that being the case I have lots of options opening up.  On a sliding scale I have:

 

[bugger-it I'll just play a 4 string] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [I'll purchase one of Tom's actual basses]

 

Somewhere on that scale all other options sit and aren't excluded or dismissed.

With banjo tuners, you wouldn’t have to modify the body shape. You would just have four tuning posts behind the bridge/stop bar.

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, JPJ said:

With banjo tuners, you wouldn’t have to modify the body shape. You would just have four tuning posts behind the bridge/stop bar.

 

Defo a consideration if I was going custom or customising an existing bass but lots of permutations still on the donor bass and/or accessing hardware.  I suppose modifying an existing 8 string to be a 12 string is the most viable option for this scenario BUT on reflection (as I type this) an 8 string would look visually correct and sound just about right for 80 - 90% of an audience (the other 10 - 20% being bassists in the audience) so is it worth modding to 12 string... especially as the anally retentive percentage will be tutting at the inaccuracies any way.  LOL 

[warwickhunt]

Can I just say that all/any of this input (inc messages) has been and continues to inform my thought processes... please don't think I am trying to pick holes in suggestions, it is genuinely helping come closer to a/several decisions!  

[JPJ]

A ten string bass (BEADG + BEADG) would also make a good donor as it will have the neck width. 

[warwickhunt]

8 minutes ago, JPJ said:

A ten string bass (BEADG + BEADG) would also make a good donor as it will have the neck width. 

 

I kind of get it but do you know of a bass like that?

[JGTay]

43 minutes ago, Jakester said:

Presumably you've seen the Dug Pinnick? 

 

https://www.peachguitars.com/schecter-doug-pinnick-dp-12-black.htm?opt=34390&gclid=CjwKCAjwsfuYBhAZEiwA5a6CDFnAV8h5uGJqnYn-Jw4Lg-o9m9ecfdzbMcA-X-GavOwClBNHzkDZ_xoCyWoQAvD_BwE

 

Could that not just be refinished/headstock reshaped?

Good option with this. 👍

[warwickhunt]

If I was to buy the DP12 £1200 and then have it reshaped, I think I'd still be the thick end of £2k and have something that is an approximation and I'll have ruined any residual value.  

 

You tend not to get 'casual' gig attenders at Cheap Trick tribute gigs.  Those at a gig will likely fall in 2 camps;

1 - non-bassists who wouldn't know if I was playing an encore P bass or one of Tom's actual instruments and

2 - BASSISTS... who will take one look and say 'Has he just buggerd up that DP bass to fool us?'

 

If I was purely buying a 12 string bass as an instrument the DP would be on a short list but as an instrument for the purpose of a tribute bass, I'm unlikely to go that route.  

[BigRedX]

If I was going to have a 12-string bass custom made, I'd want to pick a luthier who had made a couple already.

 

IME the results are always better when you pick the luthier according the bass you want and doesn't simply ask one to make something that is outside of their normal style.

[JGTay]

You could go with a DP12 and have a new body made with the correct pickup. Keep the DP12 body as is and then just swap it if you want to sell it at a later date.

At least that way you wouldn't have the extra cost of having a custom bridge made.