Eich Amplification - difference of loudness between BC112 and BC112 Pro combos

[CubeBass]

Hi,

is here anybody who has experience with both mentioned combos? Maybe even just when trying in a shop..

I have a question about actual loudness/acoustic power of these two. I learned through the years that the percieved loudness has more to do with the amount of speaker surface than the wattage. Both combos seem to use the same internal driver with the difference (if the manuals are correct), that the Pro version has 8 Ohm variation and the non-Pro has 4 Ohm one.

So, I am wondering whether without any extension cabinet they are basically almost the same in terms of power. I mean when plugging in the combo on its own.

The BC112 has 300W amp and 4Ohm speaker, so it is outputing those 300W directly, while BC112 Pro has 500W amp, so in 8Ohm speaker it is outputing maybe something like 300W. Is it close to truth? 🙂

What I don't understand - how is it possible that the BC112 has 4Ohm internal speaker and still works with external cabinets - I mean when connected in parallel, the final impedance would always be under 4Ohms which doesn't make sense..

But I would like to use the combo on its own anyway (don't have a car or even driving licence) - so basically the question is how much louder (if even louder) the Pro version is when used without extension cabinet.. I don't really mind the price difference, if there is noticably higher headroom, but otherwise I would like to save few bucks and some weight to carry..

Thanks for your input.

Regards, Jakub

Edited September 13, 2022 by CubeBass
typo

[pete.young]

 Think you've read this wrong. My reading of the manuals is that both combos have an 8 Ohm internal speaker. You can use a second 8 Ohm speaker as an extension, or turn off the internal speaker and use a 4 Ohm extension.

 

 

 

 

[CubeBass]

It would make so much more sense.. But if you open both manuals side by side, in the "Technical specifications" on the last page it says:

Speaker: 1x TE12D-8    (in the BC112 Pro manual) and

Speaker: 1x TE12D-4    (in the BC112 manual)

 

And this difference (in Ohms) is stated also in the product descriptions on Thomann. Maybe some copywriter in Thomann has red it wrong, but I would not blame him, because if labelling of otherwise same looking speaker distinguish only with number 8 and 4, who wouldn't think it stands for difference in impedance?

[pete.young]

It doesn't state anywhere in the Technical specification, page 11 of the manual, that the internal speaker impedence is 4 or 8 ohms. Only that the maximum extension speaker impedence is 8 ohm, which is the same for both combos. I think the labelling is unfortunate, and you've jumped to conclusions that -8 means 8 ohm, -4 means 4 Ohms.

 

The wording in the instruction manuals for the two different products describing the extension speaker sockets , section 16 on page 9, makes it pretty clear to me that the internal speakers have the same impedence. Unless of course there is a cut and paste error in the manual.

 

I suggest you write to Thomas Eich, he is a friendly and helpful person and I'm sure he'll give the explanation you are seeking.

[CubeBass]

Unfortunate labelling indeed. I first saw it on those Thomann descriptions where somebody made this conclusion.. And after that I just saw it that way.. I wrote first in Thomann but they answered me on something completely different. I wrote to Eich as well (one week ago) but still no response. I found only "info" e-mail, no "Thomas" address. That is why I tried it here as well. I have to decide and order one of them quite soon to have it in time before my upcoming gigs..

[CubeBass]

Well, I don't know why I didn't do it earlier - I tried to contact them again, this time via their fb.. So, it is indeed that way I understood it - the speakers differ "only" in impedance. So they (versions of combo) are almost identical when used on their own. The Pro has stronger power amp so is more capable when used with other cabinet..

Edited September 13, 2022 by CubeBass
clarification

[pete.young]

One of the manuals is wrong then.

[CubeBass]

In which way wrong exactly you mean? It is maybe inaccurate and confusing. It probably just means, that the 300W power module handles even 2,7 Ohm. I would probably prefer to have a switch for the impedance options, like on my previous two heads (Genzler Magellan and Glockenklang Steamhammer).

Anyway, from the user point of view they act the same - you can connect 8 Ohm cabinet when using it with the internal speaker or you can connect 4 Ohm cabinet when the internal is switched off.

[itu]

Loudness depends on more than one or two parametres. Wattage is pretty poor indicator, although it is one part of the complicated equation. Impedance is misleading, as it is usually marked as one number, while it actually changes quite a lot depending on the frequency.

 

Listen to the sound, and choose the one that you like. If your choice depends on the specifications, do your homework and read the marketing stuff. Many of the meaningful parametres are not published.

[CubeBass]

Yes I am aware that impedance is not a static one-number when we talk about speakers.. But that simplified value has its importance - many amps in the past were damaged because somebody connected cabinet with low impedance..

 

I would love to make the final decision by my ear, but it is not possible. I wouldn't start this thread if I were able to try them in person before buy. And asking here is part of my homework. Otherwise I can only read the manuals which, as stated earlier, are confusing in the point. Unfortunately I didn't found much professional reviews either..

[ped]

All things considered if you don’t intend to use an extension I’d get the non pro. It’s probably lighter too. I’d just like to add how annoying it is when a company won’t answer emails but they respond on social media straight away. That aside, I think the Eich stuff is great 👍🏼 

[pete.young]

3 hours ago, CubeBass said:

In which way wrong exactly you mean? It is maybe inaccurate and confusing. It probably just means, that the 300W power module handles even 2,7 Ohm. I would probably prefer to have a switch for the impedance options, like on my previous two heads (Genzler Magellan and Glockenklang Steamhammer).

Anyway, from the user point of view they act the same - you can connect 8 Ohm cabinet when using it with the internal speaker or you can connect 4 Ohm cabinet when the internal is switched off.

Yeah, either the BC112 is able to handle a load of 2.7 ohms or the instruction to connect an 8 Ohm speaker without switching off the internal speaker is wrong.

 

I don't really do Facebook so I didn't see the response, but can you be sure it was actually someone from Eich who understands impedance that replied, and not some marketing person or random dude from the Internet?

 

I have a Puma 110, it is a great little combo but I wouldn't be buying anything else from them until I had a definitive answer. Maybe you could buy one and measure the impedance for us ? 🙂

Edited September 14, 2022 by pete.young

[CubeBass]

ped:

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I would prefer an (earlier) e-mail too. But in their defense, they were busy because of tradeshow in Mannheim.. So it is probably easier to answer this way when on the move.. Don't know - still don't even have smartphone.. 🙂

 

pete.young:

It was series of replies in conversation with their official fb profile. So I think the info should be reliable.

I am afraid I am not equipped to make such measurement.. 😞

 

Typos and such things unfortunately occur even in best brand's manuals. For example I spotted some copy/paste error about EQ frequencies in manual for that Steamhammer - Glockenklang made a revision immediately. So you now see 04/2021 in the PDF.. 🙂

[CubeBass]

So I ordered the non-Pro version. Should be here in a week or maybe little later. Looking forward..