When should legends retire?

ambient · September 18, 2022

9 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

It's a difficult one. I know I'll be playing in bands until it becomes absolutely physically impossible, so why should I begrudge others the same?

As a punter I'm reasonably lucky in that very few of the bands that I liked when I was first getting into music still exist in any gigging form so I'm unlikely to be disappointed, and there are plenty of new young bands coming up playing music I like, that I can go and see.

Because of the genre both my current bands move in, I get to see a lot of bands that were reasonably famous back in the 80s and 90s because we are supporting them. Whilst all of them can still cut it from a performance PoV, the depressing thing for me is that most of them are completely happy to trade on songs that are at best 25 years old. I know that on the whole audiences want to hear what they know and like, but there's not even a token song from the "new album" mostly because there is no new album. It's never been easier to record and release music without needing record label backing, so why aren't they doing it? It's as though their creative abilities got switched off sometime in the late 90s.

Notable exceptions to the above are Toyah and Mark Burgess.

I was somewhere recently where they were playing a Jimi Hendrix album. In between songs he said to the audience: ‘you want to hear the same old songs? Man, we were just trying to get some new stuff together’’

You’re right though. It has never been easier to record. Is it an age thing? The hits being a kind of safety net for them?

I guess it must get pretty demoralising for those who do release something new, when they read a reviewer making a comparison to something they released thirty years ago?

Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever been to a gig by an artist where they haven’t been promoting a new album. The last gig I went to was Steven Wilson at the RAH. He’s quite prolific and I think only tours to promote an album. The next gig I’m going to is Porcupine Tree in November. I know they’ll be playing older stuff. They’re currently touring North America, there’s a section of the set featuring just Wilson and Barbieri where they play older material. They’re promoting the new album though, so there’ll be a lot of new tracks there. I saw him once at the O2 and he played tracks off an unreleased album.

casapete · September 18, 2022

22 minutes ago, ubit said:

Yup, why no new music from people who used to churn out hits every month? I am always amazed when you hear about old bands and you find out they are still going but their last album was in 1994 or something. I think what are they playing then? Just their old stuff over and over.

Think this must been down to when creativity / attitude / being younger were all major factors

in how their music was made. Who would have thought that say the punk bands of the late

70’s would still be touring now, with them being so rebellious and dismissive of the older

bands back then? It’s down to earning a living I guess, so long as there are punters who will pay

to see them. Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be etc....

Bands like the Stones haven’t produced much of note for a long time but they still get massive

audiences willing to cough up hundreds to stand half a mile from the stage, just to be there.

When acts become ‘legends’ it guarantees them a good living till they peg it. Having a healthy

and memorable back catalogue is the goose that laid the golden egg.

Grimalkin · September 18, 2022

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

Grimalkin · September 18, 2022

17 minutes ago, casapete said:

Think this must been down to when creativity / attitude / being younger were all major factors

in how their music was made. Who would have thought that say the punk bands of the late

70’s would still be touring now, with them being so rebellious and dismissive of the older

bands back then? It’s down to earning a living I guess, so long as there are punters who will pay

to see them. Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be etc....

Bands like the Stones haven’t produced much of note for a long time but they still get massive

audiences willing to cough up hundreds to stand half a mile from the stage, just to be there.

When acts become ‘legends’ it guarantees them a good living till they peg it. Having a healthy

and memorable back catalogue is the goose that laid the golden egg.

Beat me to it.

Ed_S · September 18, 2022

I've walked out of a few shows having paid upwards of fifty quid a ticket, usually because the sound was so bad that it was impossible to tell whether the artist was past it, but now and then because it was all too obvious that they were. Given the ease of recording videos with decent sound and distributing them on youtube, my suggestion would be to announce the tour and put out a very candid and un-doctored live track from the rehearsals or warm-up shows. That way, people would be able to get a feel for what they might expect to see if they go, and can make a decision based on something. The "if you don't want to go then don't" argument is only any good if you can actually know whether you want to go; how are you meant to know whether this is the time that you'll be disappointed if all you've got to go on is the fact that you weren't disappointed 5 years ago? Show us what's on offer; some will buy tickets no matter what, some will think the preview sounds ace and buy their tickets, and some will avoid paying to be disappointed. The artist can then reduce venue capacity and/or retire when they can't legitimately sell the tickets any longer on the back of previewing the show. If that never happens to them... great!

The new material question is one I've contemplated over a few pints and came to the conclusion that bands tour albums too soon after their release. People haven't had time to work that material into their listening and think of it as a favourite by the time they hear it live, so the crowd reaction is lukewarm compared to the older material and that reinforces the idea that crowds only want a greatest hits tour. In an ideal world, I think bands should only tour their first album when they've released their second, then continue out-of-step like that, so they're always playing material that more people have had some time to feel a connection with. As an added bonus, if there's an album at the end that never gets toured as a result, that's leaves a great opportunity for a tribute.

chris_b · September 18, 2022

Years ago I was on a festival and Wilko was on the bill. This was before he got his all clear, and he was dire. Didn't keep in time with the band and just played badly. He filled the room and kept the audience until the end! The band looked very unhappy.

Exasperated musicians and happy audience. . . . why stop if people still want to pay to see you.

Edited September 18, 2022 by chris_b

SubsonicSimpleton · September 18, 2022

1 hour ago, Ed_S said:

The new material question is one I've contemplated over a few pints and came to the conclusion that bands tour albums too soon after their release. People haven't had time to work that material into their listening and think of it as a favourite by the time they hear it live, so the crowd reaction is lukewarm compared to the older material and that reinforces the idea that crowds only want a greatest hits tour. In an ideal world, I think bands should only tour their first album when they've released their second, then continue out-of-step like that, so they're always playing material that more people have had some time to feel a connection with. As an added bonus, if there's an album at the end that never gets toured as a result, that's leaves a great opportunity for a tribute.

Eh?

Radio is less important than it once was, and streaming platforms put new music in competition with nearly everything that has already been recorded over the last 70 years - some bands do sucessfully manage to harness the power of social media to garner a ready audience before commiting to touring, but for every Vulfpeck or PMJ there are hundreds of bands that never manage to garner big online only followings before booking gigs in meatspace.

Ed_S · September 18, 2022

48 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Eh?

Radio is less important than it once was, and streaming platforms put new music in competition with nearly everything that has already been recorded over the last 70 years - some bands do sucessfully manage to harness the power of social media to garner a ready audience before commiting to touring, but for every Vulfpeck or PMJ there are hundreds of bands that never manage to garner big online only followings before booking gigs in meatspace.

Just a beer-fuelled thought in isolation without too much concern as to how well it'd work in practice. I guess on reflection it would work best for artists that are already held in some regard, have a few albums out and aren't yet jaded enough to not be bothering with new ones.

To provide context, there I was, stood watching Iron Maiden (who were, at least at the time, very into touring a new album and playing it in its entirety and then doing a few hits at the end to wrap up) and I realised that I was just stood there paying a lot to drink and shrug my shoulders because I clearly hadn't diligently done my homework and learned to love their new material end-to-end in time for the show. I wasn't really considering streaming vs radio etc. - just that at that gig, I'd have really liked to hear something I knew, and would have cheered much louder afterwards had it been forthcoming. Indeed, when they played the few older tracks at the end, everybody did. Afterwards I considered that, had I been given more time to naturally assimilate the 'new' album into my listening, I could have known it and would have enjoyed the gig much more. However, if I'd been asked right then on the way out, I would have said that they needed to just give it up and play greatest hits shows to give the people what they want.

Trueno · September 18, 2022

I think the time to quit is when you die. But nowadays, with digital jiggery-pokery and hologramatic goings-on, dead guys just keep on going.

It reminds me of a line from Red Dwarf: “death doesn’t screw your career up like it used to…”

Boodang · September 18, 2022

8 hours ago, mikel said:

For me, when they get fat. The Stones can, or could, rip Charlie, pull it off cos they still look like rock stars. A big fat legend just doesn't work for me.

I agree, I think if you don't have a six pack you shouldn't be allowed to practice at home let alone play in public. Music should be rated on a 'six-pack-o-meter' scale which solely rates the collective gym input of the band.

Of course for those musicians who just can't cut it in the gym, you could always issues buckets at gigs so you can vomit along to the sight of their jiggling performance.

BigRedX · September 18, 2022

However most of these bands don't have a whole set's worth of hits. At the very best there will be a handful of popular singles, some good album-only songs and still about 25% filler. So why not have some new songs? They can't be any worse than the filler from 30 years ago that they are still playing.

Barking Spiders · September 18, 2022

Once they get their first liver spots / first double chin and definitely when any new material is an inferior rehash of stuff made at the start of their careers.

Dad3353 · September 18, 2022

Fats Waller wouldn't get a look-in, then...

... nor Canned Heat ...

There are plenty more.