When should legends retire?

[davepb24]

Difficult one... the first three bands I ever saw live, 40+ years ago, are all still around, two of them I would much rather hang on to the memories of when they were great, Status Quo and Judas Priest - Quo have become their own tribute act, and sorry but Rob Halford can't quite do justice to stuff like "Beyond The Realms Of Death" these days. The third of the trio is OMD... having more or less reunited the original lineup every Y**T*** video I see of them now makes me wish I was there, they really can still do it!

Then... as a bit of an old goth... Sisters Of Mercy... saw them about 20 years ago, Eldritch and a couple of hired guns going through the motions, utterly forgettable... and Fields Of The Nephilim... saw the classic lineup several times, last saw them at a festival at the NEC some years back, apparently with the Prodigy's guitarist among others... ok they could play the old stuff perfectly but there was just something missing (on a lighter note I'm sure Carl McCoy actually cracked at least three quarters of a smile at the end of that!)

[Duarte]

I feel so lucky to be in a world where I can see many of the musical legends that I was brought up on - there's no point where artists 'should' retire when the likes of Dolly Parton or George Clinton, at a million years old, are still crushing it, with new material and quality sets.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Duarte

[police squad]

I'm going to see the searchers next year. I'm quite looking forward to it.

 

Saw Meat Loaf a few years back, he was awful but the band were amazing, so we stayed.

[Ed_S]

10 hours ago, StickyDBRmf said:

I listen to bands/artists for totally different reasons than you do. Just as I'm into the band that I am playing/performing with at the moment, I'm into the newest music and the rawness (and mistakes that go along with it). That's what music is all about for me. I can listen to an album - finished product.

I would have given a nut (well, maybe not) to have heard Pink Floyd touring Dark Side Of The Moon before they produced the album. While The Music was still being gestated. Then listen to "The Album".

I saw Yes right after Tales From Topographic Oceans was released - before they started dropping whole sides of the album. It was still new and fresh. I don't think Rick Wakeman was ordering curry yet. They opened with the entire Close To The Edge album. What an Epic concert.

 

I know this has gone WAY off the original topic but I just had to comment.

And I'm not interested in seeing Yes these days.

But I would, in a heartbeat, go see an old favorite absolutely KNOWING they were gonna play music I have never heard before.

A True Legend would still be creating.

 

It's not that I don't enjoy or see the value in that side of live music, but raw newness and mistakes whilst listening to material I've never heard before is why I go and see local original bands and pay a fiver to get in. Or why I make sure I'm there at doors to catch all the support bands for more established acts that I've paid a higher ticket price and possibly travel/hotel costs to go and see. A workshop-esque show from an established band commanding a high ticket price wouldn't do it for me.

[Paul S]

Personally, I like to hear the music I grew up listening to played the same way as it was recorded.  Far from 'might as well have stayed at home and put the record on' I like the fact that a bunch of musicians are on stage in front of me, live, recreating that sound.  That is what I like about music, it is why I continue to see bands such as Simple Minds, as mentioned above, Go West, Level 42, Shakatak etc etc.  Those songs are why I got into the bands in the first place and to hear those songs again, not a re-hash version, is why I want to see them.  And, for me, as soon as they can't or don't continue to perform the original stuff in the same way, I bale out.

[andydye]

Singers are always the ones who at some point truly just can't do it anymore, dropping the key is going to help for a while but eventually it just won't be enough, I'd like to think you could tell if your voice just wasn't there anymore, suspect pride is a big big part of needing to continue performing

 

Bass/drums/guitar/etc (deafness/injury/illness notwithstanding), there's no reason we shouldn't be continually improving until we can't hold our instrument any longer?

[Cat Burrito]

It's a difficult call really and if you have worked as a musician all your life, many don't have enough to retire and are unlikely to slot right in to normal life. With YouTube etc, acts can be checked out and if they are past their best, punters have the opportunity to pass. I'm not a fan personally but I had friends post clips of the final Whitesnake tour and it was karaoke level, at best. Equally people criticise Kiss these days but I thought the tour I saw pre-Covid was better than seeing the original lineup back in the 90s. Some artists look after their voices and age is no barrier - Alice Cooper and The Cure seem to still deliver at the level they always did, despite decades in the industry. 

[Earbrass]

Mrs. E and I recently sat and watched the BBC recording of the Stones live at the Fonda in LA, recorded in 2015, where they performed the whole of the Sticky Fingers album. I am by no means a dedicated Stones fanboy, although I've always really liked some of their music, but I thought it was a fabulous performance  - not fabulous "considering their age", but just plain excellent by any standard.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0018zwr/the-rolling-stones-live-at-the-fonda

[Duarte]

2 hours ago, Paul S said:

Personally, I like to hear the music I grew up listening to played the same way as it was recorded.  Far from 'might as well have stayed at home and put the record on' I like the fact that a bunch of musicians are on stage in front of me, live, recreating that sound.  That is what I like about music, it is why I continue to see bands such as Simple Minds, as mentioned above, Go West, Level 42, Shakatak etc etc.  Those songs are why I got into the bands in the first place and to hear those songs again, not a re-hash version, is why I want to see them.  And, for me, as soon as they can't or don't continue to perform the original stuff in the same way, I bale out.

 

This is interesting - feel the total opposite. I really enjoy hearing new interpretations and arrangements of songs that I know and love. To me it keeps the material fresh and relevant. An extreme example would be the band Eels. Every time they tour, the band goes in a different direction. One time I saw them they had horns and played soulful versions of their classics, another time they were a 4 piece punk band, another time it was orchestral. Same songs, but a totally different experience each time. I'll keep going, partly for the anticipation of what I'm going to get.

 

Another artist I've seen many times in George Clinton, whose band roster changes with every tour. You could have any combination of P-funk elders and new recruits, bringing elements of metal, trap, jazz, classic p-funk or anything to the sound. Each lead guitarist in p-funk has their own interpretation of Maggot Brain, which is always a journey. Also I enjoy spotting members that I recognise and looking up members that I didn't recognise.

 

The Prodigy play reimagined version of tunes from the 90s to keep them up to date, which is important in electronic music. They'll perform mad arrangements of classic rave tunes at one gig, then never again, and you will never hear it again. That makes each gig unique and special. It also means the only way to re-experience a specific version of a song might be a shaky 30 second long youtube clip, so it exists only as a memory.

 

 

 

[Woodinblack]

13 hours ago, davepb24 said:

and Fields Of The Nephilim... saw the classic lineup several times, last saw them at a festival at the NEC some years back,

 

I have seen FoTN quite a few times. Saw them back in Portsmouth Guildhall in 1990 and they were actually not that great, so I stopped going to see them, but carried on seeing the mission as they were always good.

Then a few years back I went to see FoTN and Mission on a double bill at the kentish town forum, and they were actually fantastic, and the mission, well, they were pretty terrible (and didn't want to be there). Funny how one off gigs can taint your whole view.

[cetera]

On 18/09/2022 at 19:27, mikel said:

Well, I saw Focus a couple of years ago. The music was great but Van Leer looked like a fat bald roadie. I thought he was when he first came on stage. May as well have stayed at home and listened to the albums. Aive gig is about more than just the music. 

And yet I saw them just a few weeks ago they were fabulous, with the overriding feeling coming from the stage being one of 'love of music and of performing live'. Thijs Van Leer didn't stop smiling or interacting with the audience throughout the show and this was reciprocated with a love and appreciation from the audience for the music and the performance.

[paul_5]

End of the tax year ideally, saves on accountancy fees.

[paul_5]

Seriously though, this thread puts me in mind of a (perhaps apophrycal) story of great cellist 

Pablo Casals who continued to practice daily at age 80(or even 90), and when he was asked why he was so diligent he replied
"I'm starting to see some improvement."

Edited September 20, 2022 by paul_5

[zbd1960]

45 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Seriously though, this thread puts me in mind of a (perhaps apophrycal) story of great cellist 

Pablo Casals who continued to practice daily at age 80(or even 90), and when he was asked why he was so diligent he replied
"I'm starting to see some improvement."

It's a well-known quote...

When I was a youngster at school, Casals (1876 - 1973) was held up as the "greatest living cellist". Time and styles of playing move on and much of his way of playing is now out of favour...

[Bluewine]

On 18/09/2022 at 10:10, Boodang said:

I agree, I think if you don't have a six pack you shouldn't be allowed to practice at home let alone play in public. Music should be rated on a 'six-pack-o-meter' scale which solely rates the collective gym input of the band.

Of course for those musicians who just can't cut it in the gym, you could always issues buckets at gigs so you can vomit along to the sight of their jiggling performance. 

 

Most of the rock bands for my generation started in the mid 60s. Some are still out there. working and  doing a good job on stage 

 

Blue

[Downunderwonder]

On 18/09/2022 at 02:44, Franticsmurf said:

As for 'who should tell them', perhaps that's the last difficult message that a manager should deliver. Although in some cases it probably would be their last message if the artist decided to continue anyway.

That's very insightful.

 

I saw one of Akker Bilk's last gigs in London. It was a freebie at a community art centre. He was lame. I am guessing he really did need the money the city paid, otherwise he was long overdue someone telling him to take up bowls.  

 

[Misdee]

Most artists go on way too long, but how would we know they were finished if they didn't keep trying? Paul McCartney hasn't made any music worth listening to for decades, but if he had packed it in thirty years ago we'd all be saying "what if..."

[Mickeyboro]

19 minutes ago, Misdee said:

Most artists go on way too long, but how would we know they were finished if they didn't keep trying? Paul McCartney hasn't made any music worth listening to for decades, but if he had packed it in thirty years ago we'd all be saying "what if..."

A bit like we’ve done with John Lennon for the past 40 years…😉

[Grimalkin]

Frank White: How come you never came to see me?

 

Jump: Who wanted to see you in a cage, man?

 

King of New York.

[jezzaboy]

On 20/09/2022 at 06:55, police squad said:

I'm going to see the searchers next year. I'm quite looking forward to it.

 

Saw Meat Loaf a few years back, he was awful but the band were amazing, so we stayed.

A few years back he did a live session for Ken Bruce and he was dreadful. Granted it was like 11 am but he sounded like a bad pub singer to me.

[PaulWarning]

4 hours ago, Misdee said:

Paul McCartney hasn't made any music worth listening to for decades

Maybe that's because old people like me aren't really interested in new music, and young people aren't interested in old farts like Macca, we just want music that reminds us of our youth, ymmv

[prowla]

After they've died...

 

...and then the legend lives on.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

On 20/09/2022 at 14:02, cetera said:

And yet I saw them just a few weeks ago they were fabulous, with the overriding feeling coming from the stage being one of 'love of music and of performing live'. Thijs Van Leer didn't stop smiling or interacting with the audience throughout the show and this was reciprocated with a love and appreciation from the audience for the music and the performance.

Same here. I saw them at the 'intimate' New Cross Inn and it was an absolutely magnificent night. So Thijs can't hit the high notes anymore - he's in his 70s, that's not surprising. But his organ and flute playing are as good as they ever were and the band are furiously good.

 

I've always thought a band/artist should go on for as long as they want to - who are we to begrudge them their right to play their music?

That said, the current incarnation of Yes (No) has forced me to reconsider my position. They are offensively bad, to the point where they simply aren't capable of playing the music - Geoffrey Downes, I'm looking at you.

[Grimalkin]

When they start to smell of wee.

[chris_b]

16 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

When they start to smell of wee.

 

Hey. That's my new aftershave!