I Hate Compression!

[Elfrasho]

I love a bit of compression.  Far from an expert, but I  just think the bass feels better to play, not necessarily better audio wise! In fact, if I can hear it, then it's too much. Might be talking absolute jibberish but there you go, its my take on it.

[Wild Cayote]

I never really understood compression, other that that it was to make bass louder by squashing the peaks, so you can then make up the gain. 

 

Then I saw this video, and I understood what is possible with compression. The is also looks like it has to be one of the best on the market, from what I can tell, but I still never bought it.  I can see putting this level of detail in whole recording, but most of this stuff, to me seems like would hardly be noticeable  live.. 

 

https://youtu.be/IKcrN1STuIA

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Wild Cayote

[Wild Cayote]

On 05/10/2022 at 04:33, fretmeister said:

 

No. It should be in the sea with anyone who likes pineapple on pizza.

 

I don't know about that, have you ever tried it? I used to cook on restaurants when I was younger, and that's how I came to expand my pallet. Pineapples are just good, who doesn't like pineapples? But when you throw a pineapple on the grill, its awesome when it's cooked. And so putting it on the top of a pizza, where it's cooked in a high powered oven it makes sense, and it's mixed with mozerella, which is a more subtle but creamy cheeze, perfect to mix with any flavor. It's really good, actually. 

 

I know you've probably grown up on a world where fruit on pizza isn't manly enough... I used to care about stuff like that when I was young. Getting older is liberating in many ways because you are no longer worried about what your friends think about you. You get to just do what you want, including putting pineapples on pizza. You only live once, man. 

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Wild Cayote said:

I don't know about that, have you ever tried it? I used to cook on restaurants when I was younger, and that's how I came to expand my pallet. Pineapples are just good, who doesn't like pineapples? But when you throw a pineapple on the grill, its awesome when it's cooked. And so putting it on the top of a pizza, where it's cooked in a high powered oven it makes sense, and it's mixed with mozerella, which is a more subtle but creamy cheeze, perfect to mix with any flavor. It's really good, actually. 

 

I know you've probably grown up on a world where fruit on pizza isn't manly enough... I used to care about stuff like that when I was young. Getting older is liberating in many ways because you are no longer worried about what your friends think about you. You get to just do what you want, including putting pineapples on pizza. You only live once, man. 

if I was worried about fruit on pizza not being manly enough then I’d have to take the tomatoes off too. Good try though.

 

For 50 years I haven’t liked pineapple in any form. Raw, cooked, juiced, dried, you name it. 

[LukeFRC]

I’ll just leave this here for everyone ( @fretmeister excepted) 

 

Compressed pineapple

 

 

Thread over I guess. 

 

[rmorris]

On 06/10/2022 at 14:42, Osiris said:

 

You just need to set the threshold so that it works in conjunction with the amps gain control. Just bear in mind that if you swap basses you'll likely have to tweak the threshold and possibly the amp gain too. Or if you have an active bass and make any adjustments to the onboard preamp you'll probably need to fine tune the settings too. 

 

Once you've set things up right you might find that your driven tone is more consistent too. 

 

 

It's probably easier to have pre-set levels to set a consistent level to the compressor / fx chain rather than altering several controls on the compressor itself.

eg by using a simple boost or graphic eq or whatever pedal. Or a mini mixer if that suits.

[Wild Cayote]

On 30/10/2022 at 11:47, fretmeister said:

if I was worried about fruit on pizza not being manly enough then I’d have to take the tomatoes off too. Good try though.

 

For 50 years I haven’t liked pineapple in any form. Raw, cooked, juiced, dried, you name it. 

Oh well if you don't like pineapple that makes sense. I just thought everyone must like em. 

[Chienmortbb]

On 21/09/2022 at 10:00, Osiris said:

I've never heard of compression reducing overtones before, I'm not sure that's true. Compression is for controlling the overall waveform as well as signal spikes on the signal, including but not always the transients. 

Compression alone cannot remove harmonics or what the OP called overtones. In fact, as they are lower levels than the fundamental, they are more likely to be accentuated by compression. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Chienmortbb

[Bagman]

I love Compression 

 

now does anyone know if the Laney Black Country Compressor is a VCA, Optical or FET? 

[mario_buoninfante]

I think compressors as pedals/fx (aka something you put between your bass and amp/PA/whatever) are no different from any other effect. one might need/like them, one might not.

in terms of what a compressor actually does, I think there a few things that can be added to everything else already mentioned on this thread.
it does affect the volume/amplitude of the signal sent to its input but, being a non-linear processor, it introduces distortion of some sort (not to be thought as a fuzz sound!).

distortion per se (via pedal, clipping, etc.) adds harmonics to the sound.

in order to change the amplitude of the injected signal, a compressor needs to "analyse" the input signal, and that's usually done with an "envelope filter" (particular low pass filter). this to get a signal that's unipolar, a bit smoother and easier to work with than the original signal at the input.

then this analysed signal goes through a comparator where is checked against a threshold (usually not hard threshold, but a series of thresholds - ie hysteresis). so, if the analysed signal (and not the actual input) crosses that threshold the compressor reduces the actual input in amplitude in accord with its settings (attack, release, ratio, lookahead, etc.).
from this, it's clear that also the way a compressor analyses the signal affects the results. the comparator too (hard threshold, a soft-knee one, etc.). and last but not the least, att/rel and other parameters massively affect the final results too.

 

one last thing, one might not want/like a compressor on their pedalboard, but somewhere between their fingers and the listener's ear there is going to be some compression, this due to pickups and the way they transduce, the amp, other pedals/fx in the chain, the mixing/mastering process, the headphones or speakers on the listener side, etc..

Just keep in mind a turntable generally has a signal-to-noise ratio of 50-60 dB, one's bass most likely has 20-30-40 dB more of dynamic range. so in order to be put on vinyl it'll get compressed somehow.
compression happens regardless one having a compressor pedal/fx or not.

that said, I totally understand those who don't want to use one. like with everything else, it's matter of tastes.

but I think it's important to understand that compression happens anyway.

Edited November 11, 2022 by mario_buoninfante

[SumOne]

I like compression, it can seem like a waste of time/money for something that is barely noticable for an audience but I find it to be one of the most interesting and diverse types of effects/processing 🤓.

 

It can be something you can barely tell is happening but you notice when it is turned off (more as a player than listener, as you notice your innacuracies in plucking volume are coming through more). I find it particularaly useful for my heavy-handed slap/pop. Or, as a heavily compressed effect for that pumping sort of sound. Or with compressors that add a bit of a preamp/very mild overdrive type tone and tone shaping. Or to add sustain when going into distortion pedals. Or it can help give a more clear signal for octaves or synth pedals, or after envelope filters to tame them when they get too 'peaky'.

 

I've owned quite a few compressor pedals and they each have their own benefits and character:

 

• FEA Opti-FET: Probably my favorite, lots of control and adds a nice softer type tone. 
• Cali 76 compact bass: Very good, fairly unobtrusive compression while adding a subtle bit of tone enhancing.
• Empress compact: Great metering and control, generally clean but can switch for mid cut/boost to shape the tone which is good.
• Markbass Comopressore: I liked this, a bit big and not 9v though so it is a bit more faff to have on pedalboard.
• MXR M87: Clean, good metering.
• Pigtronix Philosopher Bass: Good for adding sustain.
• Earthquaker Devices The Warden: Fine on low compression but on high compression it did a first note 'ducking' type thing which I didn't like.
• .......perhaps also some others I have forgotten. Each has their own pro/cons and can be quite different so I reckon liking or disliking compressor pedals could be down to what pedal is being used, for what purpose, and how it is set-up. 

 

What I would perhaps argue though is that compressor pedals are not necessary for most players (including me!). If you add overdrive then that adds compression, most preamp pedals add compression, if you go to a studio to record then it gets compressed by an engineer and mastering, if you record at home you can add compression via the DAW, if you play big venues via a front desk with sound engineer then they will add compression, if you play small venues like pubs your amp/cab will add some compression and with that setup playing with a band can the audience hear any difference if you add a pedal compressor or not?  ......so all in all, it isn't really necessary as a pedal, but they are still one of my favorite types of pedals to nerd out on so it isn't going to stop me trying more!

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by SumOne

[mario_buoninfante]

the only thing about applying compression (or any other effect tbh) after the facts (ie post-recording in a DAW) is that one most likely played without getting that "feeling" in real-time, and this would have affected the way one plays.
this is the only issue I have with re-amping (both in recording and demo situations). the player had a really clean sound when recording and adapted their playing to that.

not trying to say that re-amping is bad though

[mario_buoninfante]

basically what I was trying to say is that, if one knows that they want to have compression, they might as well have it while recording too.
but again, that's subjective!

[Shiveringbass]

On 21/09/2022 at 10:36, dclaassen said:

Okay...hear me out please...

 

I have never really cared for compressed bass sound (or really, compressed anything sound) I don't like the way it sounds. I don't like the way the wave form is changed on a recording....and I think I have finally figured out why.

 

When I was in music school at uni, we had a physics of sound class. The professor took various instrument samples and started removing overtones. Pretty soon, they all sounded the same. Overtones are what define what our sound. Without overtones, it's very difficult to determine what kind of instrument you are listening to. 

 

Compression squashes the sound, and, I think, severely limits both overtones and transients in the wave form. This results in a "beefy" sound, but one without a whole lot of definition. I watched a Youtube with a guy playing a Martin D-45. First, without compression...it sounded amazing..just what you want from that wonderful guitar. He applied compression, and suddenly, it sounded like any generic acoustic guitar...it that what we are after??

 

I don't get it....

 

Enlighten me...

 

or not

  

 

I've tried several time to add a compressor in my sound chain but I defenitly can't stand compression. I feel it sucks my sound and dynamic, everything that makes my playing organic and natural.

 

There are records that I can't simply listen to just because of the incredible level of compression applied in the mastering. The moste obvious that I can think about is S&M from Metallica and Books of soul live chapter from Maiden. The pump effect is realy too obvious and is killing me.

 

[Osiris]

19 minutes ago, Shiveringbass said:

 

I've tried several time to add a compressor in my sound chain but I defenitly can't stand compression. I feel it sucks my sound and dynamic, everything that makes my playing organic and natural.

 

 

On 21/09/2022 at 16:03, Osiris said:

 

Can I respectfully ask that you give this a read - Killed my tone (ovnilab.com)

 

Take a read of the link that I posted on the first page.

[Frank Blank]

31 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Take a read of the link that I posted on the first page.

Come away Ossie, they 'ain't worth it.

[Stub Mandrel]

The Joyo bantamp has 'one knob' compression. This sort often seems to work well, presumably as all the clever parameters are preset to sensible values.

[51m0n]

1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said:

The Joyo bantamp has 'one knob' compression. This sort often seems to work well, presumably as all the clever parameters are preset to sensible values.

One knob compression is Satan's own device, its always wrong ....

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

4 minutes ago, 51m0n said:

One knob compression is Satan's own device, its always wrong ....

 

 

 

It's the Open University philosophy - good is good enough.

[Frank Blank]

22 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

The Joyo bantamp has 'one knob' compression. This sort often seems to work well, presumably as all the clever parameters are preset to sensible values.

The one knob compression on my Fishman preamp does a splendid job exactly what's needed for the tone I'm after.

[51m0n]

And there's me wishing my Becos Twain had 4 more knobs 🤣