EUB with a chamber for home recording?

[JJRP]

Hi folks.

 

I'm looking to upgrade my Stagg EUB to something I can do recording work at home with - mainly pizz but a bit of bow as well - but I'm a bit tight for space and have downstairs neighbours so a proper DB might be a bit on the big and loud side.

 

I remember messing about on an SLB200 acoustically a while back and thinking it might be loud enough and have a nice enough timbre to get something out of mic'ing the chamber, maybe blending in some pickup signal to fill out the lower end. I never actually tried it but I do wonder if it might work out.

 

I probably don't want to go to tape with only piezo signal, at least not for stuff where the bass part is exposed. I want to avoid strong electro-acoustic sorts of flavours. 

 

I know the SLB200 / 300, the BSX Allegro, Eminence and the Classic MK EUB all have chambers but I've got no idea about differences in acoustic volume or timbre. I'd presume the BSX / Eminence / MK would be louder / easier to mic than the SLB because they've got larger chambers and f holes.

 

I guess my other option would be a small DB or a Czech-Ease, although the latter probably isn't saving me all that much space vs a regular 3/4 DB. Trying to mic a relatively quiet chamber might just be a crap idea straight out of the blocks though so maybe something nearer actual DB size is the only way forward.

 

If anyone has any advice on the above as I try to work out what bass to buy, I'd appreciate it.

 

 

 

[Burns-bass]

All of the basses you’ve mentioned will require a pickup. You’ll get no usable acoustic tone from an Eminence for example, but with a pick up it sounds great.

 

In my experience, no EUB will deliver any sort of usable acoustic signal (aside from the Czech Ease, which isn’t an EUB but a cut down big dog).

 

I have an MK Jazz which provides a wonderful tone with a pickup. And I’m selling it to, so feel free to message me.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Burns-bass

[Burns-bass]

9 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

All of the basses you’ve mentioned will require a pickup. You’ll get no usable acoustic tone from an Eminence for example, but the pickup sounds great.

 

In my experience, no EUB will deliver any sort of usable acoustic signal (aside from the Czech Ease, which isn’t an EUB but a cut down big dog).

 

I have an MK Jazz which provides a wonderful tone with a pickup. And I’m selling it to, so feel free to message me.

 

[JJRP]

This is one of my experiments with a mic on the Stagg with stock strings at a resonant spot on the back. Purely mic signal as I was having issues with the pup.

 

Not great, but I've literally just stuck a mic on a flat plank. I was hoping a chamber plus some pup signal to fill out the bottom end might get me into usable territory - I mean, the SLB200 sounded nice in my hands, had a bit of woodiness.

 

I probably just have to get a real bass.

 

 

 

 

[Happy Jack]

Seeing as no budget has been specified ...

 

http://kolstein.com/product/kolstein-busetto-model-travel-bass-wtravel-trunk/

 

These do turn up pre-loved from time to time.

[JJRP]

Yeah, that might be closest to what I'm looking for. Looks like there must be a decent acoustic signal from one of those.

 

Maybe I'm overcomplicating things and I should just buy a regular db for half the price, though.

 

 

[SubsonicSimpleton]

10 hours ago, JJRP said:

This is one of my experiments with a mic on the Stagg with stock strings at a resonant spot on the back. Purely mic signal as I was having issues with the pup.

 

Not great, but I've literally just stuck a mic on a flat plank. I was hoping a chamber plus some pup signal to fill out the bottom end might get me into usable territory - I mean, the SLB200 sounded nice in my hands, had a bit of woodiness.

 

I probably just have to get a real bass.

 

 

 

 

Sounds pretty good to me - if you can get that from your existing setup why fix what isn't broken?

 

What mic did you use?

[JJRP]

21 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Sounds pretty good to me - if you can get that from your existing setup why fix what isn't broken?

 

What mic did you use?

 

That's a Rode M3. There's only a little bit of resonance to work with on a Stagg eub though so it's a bit of a mission getting anything on tape without unwanted noise coming through. I had to wedge the endpin with foam to try and stop bits of buzz and rattle, and there's a bit of a metallic flavour where I'd like woody tones instead.

 

The Stagg has done an ok job for me in some situations where I'd have been stuck with midi otherwise but it's not really great to play - huge contrast to the SLB200 I tried, which felt and sounded quite nice - and mostly when I actually need an acoustic tone I'm tending to use my cello instead.

 

I'd like to get some arty ECM type recording done and for this mission I think I need a bit more wood.

 

[JJRP]

Another example of the Stagg mic'd with the Rode M3 attached here.

 

It's just about doing the job - deffo much rather have this than midi - but if I run into a tone police checkpoint I think I'm busted. 

[petebassist]

23 hours ago, JJRP said:

I remember messing about on an SLB200 acoustically a while back and thinking it might be loud enough and have a nice enough timbre to get something out of mic'ing the chamber, maybe blending in some pickup signal to fill out the lower end. I never actually tried it but I do wonder if it might work out.

I thought the Yamaha SLB was designed to give you an acoustic tone straight into a PA, amp, or desk - so not sure why you'd try to mic its acoustic sound as it's designed to be silent or at least very quiet? Same goes for the Stagg I guess.

That said, I thought the second sound clip you posted sounded great, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about...

Edited September 22, 2022 by petebassist

[JJRP]

15 minutes ago, petebassist said:

I thought the Yamaha SLB was designed to give you an acoustic tone straight into a PA, amp, or desk - so not sure why you'd try to mic it's acoustic sound as it's designed to be silent or at least very quiet? Same goes for the Stagg I guess.

That said, I thought the second sound clip you posted sounded great, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about...

 There's generally a telltale piezo sort of edge to the tone going straight to tape which I don't like. Similarly, my nylon string has a pickup built in but I'd never use it for recording work.

 

I'm guessing I'd probably prefer the high mids I'd get from dropping a mic on an SLB chamber to the bare direct output, although I probably need the direct output blended in to fill out the bass end of the sound.

 

It's a very sketchy plan, though. Just not quite as sketchy as mic'ing up a completely solid EUB like the Stagg. 

 

 

[Beedster]

18 hours ago, JJRP said:

This is one of my experiments with a mic on the Stagg with stock strings at a resonant spot on the back. Purely mic signal as I was having issues with the pup.

 

Not great, but I've literally just stuck a mic on a flat plank. I was hoping a chamber plus some pup signal to fill out the bottom end might get me into usable territory - I mean, the SLB200 sounded nice in my hands, had a bit of woodiness.

 

I probably just have to get a real bass.

 

 

 

 

Nice sound 👍

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, petebassist said:

I thought the Yamaha SLB was designed to give you an acoustic tone straight into a PA, amp, or desk - so not sure why you'd try to mic it's acoustic sound as it's designed to be silent or at least very quiet? 

Nothing does that, SLBs are good but not DBs

[SubsonicSimpleton]

6 hours ago, JJRP said:

 

That's a Rode M3. There's only a little bit of resonance to work with on a Stagg eub though so it's a bit of a mission getting anything on tape without unwanted noise coming through. I had to wedge the endpin with foam to try and stop bits of buzz and rattle, and there's a bit of a metallic flavour where I'd like woody tones instead.

 

The Stagg has done an ok job for me in some situations where I'd have been stuck with midi otherwise but it's not really great to play - huge contrast to the SLB200 I tried, which felt and sounded quite nice - and mostly when I actually need an acoustic tone I'm tending to use my cello instead.

 

I'd like to get some arty ECM type recording done and for this mission I think I need a bit more wood.

 

 

In the short term, it might be worth looking at a mic with less self noise and better sensitivity - there are SDC mics that are a noticable step up(in spec terms) from the M3 without spending tons of money, have a look (listen) to some of this fellas videos (he compares the affordable mics with much more expensive options like Neuman) - the Line Audio CM4, SE Se8 and Lewitt LCT140 are all ~£150

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC--JRPkro6Q92rbmEt7MP3w/videos

 

[JJRP]

3 hours ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

 

In the short term, it might be worth looking at a mic with less self noise and better sensitivity - there are SDC mics that are a noticable step up(in spec terms) from the M3 without spending tons of money, have a look (listen) to some of this fellas videos (he compares the affordable mics with much more expensive options like Neuman) - the Line Audio CM4, SE Se8 and Lewitt LCT140 are all ~£150

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC--JRPkro6Q92rbmEt7MP3w/videos

 

Well I could use another mic so I'll give these some consideration.

 

Mostly these days I'm doing acoustic bass parts on my cello wherever tuning will allow. That gets me closer to the woody timbres I'm looking for but limits note choice somewhat. 

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you that it isn't worth getting a proper DB, but it can be a bit of an expensive and time consuming rabbit hole depending on what you are after, especially the strings.

[JJRP]

 

1 hour ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you that it isn't worth getting a proper DB, but it can be a bit of an expensive and time consuming rabbit hole depending on what you are after, especially the strings.

I use db quite a lot in the various sorts of work I do so it's definitely worth having something that records nicely. But I can't really justify spending much more than SLB sort of money.

 

The czech-ease option is tempting but a bit on the more expensive side. Looks like a couple have come up here recently.

[Grahambythesea]

Why not just use headphones?