Do not bring that bass again... please

[White Cloud]

In my band I am the bass player therefore - as the bass specialist - I choose the bass. 

 

It's non negotiable. If you don't want my expertise you don't want me and I walk.

 

That's where I'm at. 

[Doddy]

1 hour ago, White Cloud said:

In my band I am the bass player therefore - as the bass specialist - I choose the bass. 

 

It's non negotiable. If you don't want my expertise you don't want me and I walk.

 

That's where I'm at. 

That's cool if it's a band where everyone gets an equal shout but (unfortunately) it doesn't always work like that. If you are working as a sideman or a sub, you might have to play a different instrument than you want.

I got offered a ton of decent gigs with a busy band (some of the gigs are with members of a pretty legendary band), and the condition was that they wanted me to play a black Precision. So guess what? I leave the F Bass at home and take out my black Precision.  

[Dan Dare]

4 hours ago, Jack said:

I think that you're right when you say that often bad sound is user error (god knows that's been me once or twice in the early days of my sound career!) but wrong when you say that it doesn't just happen as well. Perhaps I should have said "nothing that can be done" rather than "nobody's fault". There are posts in this very thread about hearing aid induction loops or wifi widgets and ok yes they may technically have been somebody's fault, but not anybody in the band and there was nothing that could be done to fix it no matter one's level of soundman ability.

 

I've had a gig where we've been told there's house PA, then I double checked a few days before on facebook to be told there's a "full yamaha and rcf system that bands use all the time" then we get there to find there is indeed a full system, minus the mixer. Which we should have brought. Obviously. Maybe that's the venue's fault for not explaining, maybe it's ours for not bringing a backup anyway, but either way there was nothing that could be done to get great sound at that time. We plugged the main vocal mic directly into one top speaker, turned the stage amps up to match the drum kit, and played. I can also think of a gig where any time anything was plugged into any other socket apart from one there was horrific buzz. My singer had a socket tester and we carried a line transformer/isolator but nothing could be done to fix it. There were serious compromises to get the whole band into one socket, resulting in a less-than-perfect sound. I could go on, as could practically everyone else here who's ever gigged.

 

I did not say that "often bad sound is user error". The word "often" was in your post, not mine (save as a quote). Obviously, missing, damaged or malfunctioning/faulty equipment or corrupted mains power is outside the control of musicians (assuming it isn't their equipment that is missing, damaged or malfunctioning/faulty). I always carry a power conditioner. It's smart to do so, not just because it will treat mains-borne noise, but because valve gear especially does not like poor quality power, especially over voltages. The mains voltage can often fluctuate and spikes/surges are not rare.

 

I've heard/seen plenty of bands that sounded terrible because they didn't know how to use their kit properly. Leaving aside the instances to which you refer, poor sound rarely "just happens".

[fleabag]

AS someone who doesnt dep, this doesnt apply to me much, but as said, me and my bass ( whichever i choose ) is what you get.

I've never told a drummer to change his kit or tell a vocalist to change their mic.

[Jack]

Yes the emphasis on often was mine, I'm aware that you said that it is always user error ("bad sound doesn't just happen") but I was saying I disagree. 

 

I just see two posts now that read (to me at least) as saying roughly "if you have bad sound at a gig then you should learn to use your gear properly" and I think that's both wrong and condescending. 

[Bluewine]

On 30/09/2022 at 12:55, Horizontalste said:

I auditioned for a band several years ago & I had put in the effort on the run up & nailed everything they asked me to play. They seemed like really cool guys & I wanted to get the gig.

However, at the end of the audition after the whole band telling me they liked my playing & my personality the singist says "what kind of guitar is that"? To which I replied "oh, this is my Musicman Stingray"

He came back with, "hmmmmmmm, haven't heard of them, you'll need to play a Fender in this band"!

 

In my broadest black country accent I said "thanks for the jam, t'raaa a bit".

 

I gig and rotate about 7 different bass guitars. Not one band member has even made a comment. I don't think most guys know one bass from the other or even notice what bass your playing. 

 

I actually think I could show up with a Fender Stratocaster and they wouldn't even notice.

 

Blue

 

[chris_b]

2 hours ago, fleabag said:

I've never told a drummer to change his kit or tell a vocalist to change their mic.

 

I did hassle a dep drummer once. He was using a small piccolo snare in a rock blues band, and he sounded terrible. I told him not to bring that snare again! He didn't and the band's sound improved. . . .  a lot!

[Ed_S]

I was once told by a guy behind a mixing desk that I should change all my gear for whatever would get me "closer to the ideal of a perfect sine wave". He'd clearly been smoking a lot of assorted garden clippings, so I just nodded and smiled.

 

9 hours ago, fleabag said:

I've never told [...] a vocalist to change their mic.

 

I have, but I did it in line with the 'if you want me to use it then you can provide it' sentiment. Our last singer turned up with a Rode M2 which did her voice no favours at all and really didn't behave well in a loud rehearsal room, so I offered up a selection of others to try and we arrived at a Beta 57a for rehearsals and an E838 for gigs. At no point did I suggest that she needed to spend any money.

[Chienmortbb]

On 30/09/2022 at 19:32, SteveXFR said:

I was once told not to use my Orange amp again and to buy an Ampeg SVT classic because "that's the industry standard". As far as I know they're still looking for a replacement bassist.

When I auditioned for my current band, I walked in with my Class D Head and Basschat 112 speaker. "You will need more than that for a gig". Needd less to say that all the previous bassists had head height stacks, Anyway I got the job and have never had a complaint that I was too quiet.

[Chienmortbb]

10 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

have, but I did it in line with the 'if you want me to use it then you can provide it' sentiment. Our last singer turned up with a Rode M2 which did her voice no favours at all and really didn't behave well in a loud rehearsal room, so I offered up a selection of others to try and we arrived at a Beta 57a for rehearsals and an E838 for gigs. At no point did I suggest that she needed to spend any money.

Singer, spend money? Never thought I would see those words in the same sentence.

[Rich]

6 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

I have, but I did it in line with the 'if you want me to use it then you can provide it' sentiment. Our last singer turned up with a Rode M2 which did her voice no favours at all and really didn't behave well in a loud rehearsal room, so I offered up a selection of others to try and we arrived at a Beta 57a for rehearsals and an E838 for gigs. At no point did I suggest that she needed to spend any money.

Just shows what a mic luddite I am... I'd always thought it was 'stand behind an SM58 and away you go'  it's obviously a much deeper science than I ever gave it credit for. Although I suppose it's no different to playing a P instead of a J, for example.

 

[Chienmortbb]

On 01/10/2022 at 23:35, Smanth said:

Wouldn’t that mean a lot of basses are no strings away from being ukuleles? 🤣

One case where size really matters.

[Ed_S]

2 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Singer, spend money? Never thought I would see those words in the same sentence.

 

The fact that she'd turned up with any mic at all signalled that she might be a keeper. That and the big gloves.

[BassBod]

Over the years I’ve been “requested” not to bring….5 string / fretless / Wal at various times.  Lucky for me that I’ve never owned a fretless Wal 5 string 🤔.  
 

Oh, and anything headless…of, course..

[Dan Dare]

11 hours ago, Jack said:

Yes the emphasis on often was mine, I'm aware that you said that it is always user error ("bad sound doesn't just happen") but I was saying I disagree. 

 

I just see two posts now that read (to me at least) as saying roughly "if you have bad sound at a gig then you should learn to use your gear properly" and I think that's both wrong and condescending. 

 

Let's unpack this a little. Sound equipment is not designed or built to perform badly. Assuming it's of decent enough quality and adequate for the job, how else can it sound bad other than through operator error?

[Frank Blank]

23 minutes ago, Rich said:

Just shows what a mic luddite I am... I'd always thought it was 'stand behind an SM58 and away you go'  it's obviously a much deeper science than I ever gave it credit for. Although I suppose it's no different to playing a P instead of a J, for example.

 

Microphones live down a deep and expensive rabbit hole, much like camera lenses.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Frank Blank

[neepheid]

I think I've been incredibly lucky.  Only one guitarist has ever so much as tutted at my choice of bass (muttered something about Precision basses being better).  He's shorter than me so I just ignored him

 

Additional - not strictly true - I also heard that he didn't like Thunderbirds, so guess who acquired a Tokai T-bird, just to annoy him?

 

The band is long gone but we're still friends

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by neepheid

[Ed_S]

35 minutes ago, Rich said:

Just shows what a mic luddite I am... I'd always thought it was 'stand behind an SM58 and away you go'  it's obviously a much deeper science than I ever gave it credit for. Although I suppose it's no different to playing a P instead of a J, for example.

 

 

Oh aye, I'm not calling myself any kind of mic expert either, and if an SM58 had turned up it would probably have performed fine. Just like a P bass, even if you have a preference for something fancier, you're generally hard pressed to argue with the ability of a standard workhorse to get the job done.

 

On that basis, if I find myself auditioning for a new band at any point in the future, I'm taking my USA Fender Jazz 5, because as much as it's not my favourite all-rounder to play, aside from the extra string it's as unarguable a bass as I can manage.

[Lozz196]

I’ve never been told what instrument to use, but once when recording a track on guitar I did most of it on a Les Paul, adding a few bits on a Strat, and the producer subtly asked why I favoured the Les Paul when I played the Strat better. So we did a good bit of it again on the Strat and guess what, he was right, vastly improved it.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Lozz196

[neepheid]

4 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

I’ve never been told what instrument to use, but once when recording a track on guitar I did most of it on a Les Paul, adding a few bits on a Strat, and the producer subtly asked why I favoured the Les Paul when I played the Strat better. So we did a good bit of it again on the Strat and guess what, he was right, vastly improved it.

 

That sounds like it was a respectful exchange of opinions though.

[Rich]

57 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

 

Microphones live down a deep and expensive rabbit hole, much like camera lenses.

And stage lighting. The guitarist from the Soul Destroyers has developed a sideline in lighting, and the array of technologies and equipment available is quite mindboggling. He's spent thousands and is only scratching the surface, although he's doing nicely, got two or three regular prestigious gigs for himself.

[msb]

I play blues and roots music and have twenty something basses , mostly play short scales these days but accumulated the usual bunch of classic basses. My usual gig bass is a Dano Longhorn with ancient strings , but they have a wonderful rich woody thump. Still the factory strings , it was one of the first batch of reissues from 98 or so. It weighs next to nothing , is comfortable and fun to play , and sounds great.

It just sits in the mix , whenever I bring a backup bass I’m usually told the Longhorn sounds the best , even if I bring another Dano shortscale.

However playing at home my favourite bass is a Gibson DC Jr with relatively fresh rounds. The Longhorn sits in a gig bag until it’s gig time. I cycle through the collection , but my favourite is the Jr or an SG bass that’s growing on me.

[Greg Edwards69]

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Singer, spend money? Never thought I would see those words in the same sentence.

Steady on. Next you'll be saying that they help carry equipment!

[TimR]

Room acoustics (shape, wall materials, seating), position of speakers, position of players, number and positioning of people in the audience, and a whole host of other issues can make some stages simply unplayable. Blaming the type of bass guitar for a lack of bass is a bit of a cop out, but understandable if it 'appears' to be the only difference to the last time you played. Even though all the above will be different they'll be invisible to practically anyone who doesn't know anything about acoustics. Which includes a lot of musicians. 

 

It could even have been another instrument masking the mid or bass frequencies of the bass and/or being in an acoustic dead spot. 

 

 

[Greg Edwards69]

19 minutes ago, TimR said:

Blaming the type of bass guitar for a lack of bass is a bit of a cop out, but understandable if it 'appears' to be the only difference to the last time you played. Even though all the above will be different they'll be invisible to practically anyone who doesn't know anything about acoustics. Which includes a lot of musicians. 

And ironically, it's usually the bass player who has the best understanding of acoustics, due to the nature of our chosen instrument. But we're usually passed over as a gibbering simpleton.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Greg Edwards69