Deps - What format do you prefer material to be given in?

[Auctioneer]

When doing dep work for wedding/covers gigs, I've usually just made my own reference material for the shows. Now that I've finally joined a wedding band, I'm looking to prepare music for the times I need a dep. Thing is, I'm not sure what format is 'best' for this situation. iReal Pro-style charts? Chord Pro-style chords and lyrics? Full sheet music?

 

I'm trying to find something reasonably compatible with all the various apps people use. Personally I'm a fan of making text documents with Chord Pro formatting since it can be imported by most apps such as OnSong and Set List Maker (though MobileSheets is my first choice) and it can be exported as a PDF, too. The band's previous bassist created chord charts in iReal, which has been fine, just a little different to what I'm used to. Even for jazz gigs I prefer a lead sheet.

 

Any and all thoughts/preferences welcome. I'd also be interested to know what apps you use, if any. 

[ambient]

I haven’t done a dep gig for a while now. I still have the folder with notated parts from when I was doing them regularly. I have 2 or 3 copies of most songs, in different keys.

 

If I was to do one now then I’d convert them to pdf and import them into ForeScore.

 

A lead sheet would be most useful if I was having to busk. In pdf format.

[Doddy]

It depends what you expect from the dep.

If you want specific lines playing, I'd expect to be given a fully notated bass chart. If it's more of a jazz gig, then lead sheets are generally best. 

I'd only give someone a basic chord if you were sending it to the dep in advance with a copy of the track, to make learning easier. Even then, I'd prefer a proper chart though.

[chris_b]

Call me old fashioned. . . . but I use paper!

 

Assuming I have time, I'd make my own notes and charts from supplied set lists, YouTube links and MP3's.

[ezbass]

45 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Call me old fashioned. . . . but I use paper!

 

Assuming I have time, I'd make my own notes and charts from supplied set lists, YouTube links and MP3's.

Likewise. I still have lots of old charts from deps I’ve done and bands I’ve been in.

[warwickhunt]

I'm old school, I'd expect to be given a set list... preferably the one that the band do! 

 

I say that because I once did a dep and was given a list of 25 songs by the guitarist.  Got to the gig to find they were also using a dep drummer, who'd been given 25 songs by the vocalist... they weren't the same 25!  I still cross paths with that drummer on gigs and it is always our first reminisce.  

[paul_5]

At least a list of songs and key if different from the original. 
I’d prefer notated parts, but that’s just me.

[Lozz196]

Only dropped once, my preferred format would be being told songs the band were actually going to play……

[Nail Soup]

41 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Only dropped once, my preferred format would be being told songs the band were actually going to play……

Only dropped once? I guess that's a Freudian slip as it sounds like you were dropped in it!

[Lozz196]

Yeah, rottenpoxy autochange

[chris_b]

I was given a set list for a wedding. . . of 96 songs! I emailed back, "Surely you're not going to play for 19 hours? Can you be more succinct?" I got an amended list of 86 songs back!

 

There were a lot of Elvis and RnR 12 bars so I just charted the songs that I didn't know.

 

On the gig the band leader alternated songs with the guitarist, and they hadn't given me any of his numbers!

 

 

[ambient]

2 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

I'm old school, I'd expect to be given a set list... preferably the one that the band do! 

 

I say that because I once did a dep and was given a list of 25 songs by the guitarist.  Got to the gig to find they were also using a dep drummer, who'd been given 25 songs by the vocalist... they weren't the same 25!  I still cross paths with that drummer on gigs and it is always our first reminisce.  

That’s happened to me, more than once.

[fretmeister]

Proper transcription.

[Mottlefeeder]

My preference would be for chords above vocals, and bar lines where the chords are not on beat 1. This probably rules out Chordpro as a format.

I use the Chordle app on a Windows tablet or my home PC. It imports from lead sheets or Chordpro sheets, and will then very easily change the key and/or show the real chord or played chord if a capo is used.

David

[Auctioneer]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

 

4 hours ago, Doddy said:

It depends what you expect from the dep.

If you want specific lines playing, I'd expect to be given a fully notated bass chart. If it's more of a jazz gig, then lead sheets are generally best. 

I'd only give someone a basic chord if you were sending it to the dep in advance with a copy of the track, to make learning easier. Even then, I'd prefer a proper chart though.

 

These songs are generally your usual wedding set stuff, so I'd definitely send over a list of the songs and keys to start with, and probably a link to a Spotify playlist containing the songs, at a bare minimum. I don't particularly mind about note-perfect accuracy, really - just as long as they can get through the songs.

 

36 minutes ago, Mottlefeeder said:

My preference would be for chords above vocals, and bar lines where the chords are not on beat 1. This probably rules out Chordpro as a format.

I use the Chordle app on a Windows tablet or my home PC. It imports from lead sheets or Chordpro sheets, and will then very easily change the key and/or show the real chord or played chord if a capo is used.

David

Would Chordpro not be suitable in this instance, given it can be converted/interpreted to having chords above vocals?

 

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

I was given a set list for a wedding. . . of 96 songs! I emailed back, "Surely you're not going to play for 19 hours? Can you be more succinct?" I got an amended list of 86 songs back!

 

A recent gig had me learn 80, and I had to prep all my own material, which was very time-consuming. That experience is actually what prompted this thread - I'd hate for someone else to go through that!

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Auctioneer

[bagsieblue]

At the ideal end full notated transcriptions 

 

At the very least chord charts. 

 

Of course of the actual versions of the song the band does. 

And in the right key!! 

[Mottlefeeder]

2 hours ago, Auctioneer said:

...
Would Chordpro not be suitable in this instance, given it can be converted/interpreted to having chords above vocals?

...

Chordpro puts chords exactly where you want them in the vocal line, but unless you also put the bar lines [also in square brackets] in the vocal line, it will only display chords over vocals, which gives you insufficient information to be confident how many beats you have until the next change. 

If the song is one chord per bar, and always on beat 1, this is not an issue, but something like 'Easy' with it's occasional lines starting on beat 4 will give you problems.

A lot depends on whether your chord sheet is a one-gig learning aid, or something you plan to use, without further refreshing, at some point in the future.

David

[Mottlefeeder]

Another point worth considering, if you choose to make text files with chords above lyrics, using tabs between chords wil be unlikely to put them in the right place when imported into another app. Using only spaces gives a much more stable layout. 

David

[Nail Soup]

47 minutes ago, Mottlefeeder said:

Another point worth considering, if you choose to make text files with chords above lyrics, using tabs between chords wil be unlikely to put them in the right place when imported into another app. Using only spaces gives a much more stable layout. 

David

And always use a monospaced font.

[jrixn1]

Use scored charts for a tight, professional performance even if the band have never met before and don't know the tunes.

 

I don't see how this can go wrong:

 

And I don't see how this can go right:

 

 

[Auctioneer]

2 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Use scored charts for a tight, professional performance even if the band have never met before and don't know the tunes.

 

I don't see how this can go wrong:

 

And I don't see how this can go right:

 

 

 

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here, although I do broadly agree with you.

 

Certainly it's much more precise to know exactly what note you're playing and when, especially if the band isn't a 'jam band' (I don't use that term derisively - a lot of deps I do take a less structured approach and that has its own strength). My trepidation in using a score, other than the time required to write it, is that not everyone is a reader; in fact at least one of the people I would consider using as a dep isn't. Great player, just not something they do. Plus, you'd have to make sure your scoring was dead accurate to the band you're playing with.

 

Where the lyrics/chords approach has merit is for being able to follow along with the vocal line to get a sense of where you are. This is typically how I lay out my own reference material, with the occasional passage of notation if needed. That said, it still requires someone to know how a song goes, roughly - and your example is a good one illustrating the lack of info such an approach yields (although I do often write some instructive text for myself). I'm hoping I can secure my deps far enough in advance that they'll be able to go over all the tunes beforehand, but I suppose that doesn't account for the instances where I might be hit by a bus the day of a wedding and need someone that day who doesn't know all the songs.

 

I suppose the best approach would be a combination of all three styles, wouldn't it? Chords on top, notation below it, lyrics below that, with some structural notes written as and when needed. It would take a long time to make and get right, but maybe I just need to get on with it to give my hypothetical deps the best chance of nailing it.

[scalpy]

Had a dep gig over the summer with an agency. Booked the Wednesday to play that Saturday. I had a general idea of what they did because of a previous booking that fell through so started working through 30 or so songs, but they didn’t confirm the set or keys until the Friday afternoon. About 50% difference. Got to the gig the Saturday afternoon, the agency hadn’t agreed the set with the singer, who couldn’t/ wouldn’t do a lot of the songs, so we redrafted the set, only to find the agency hadn’t sent anybody any tracks, so we could only use what the guitarist had from previous gigs on his laptop. Cue me sat in the back seat of the car with an hour to spare desperately trying to chart as many as     possible. To cap it all, it was an in ears gig and the guitarist, doubling as sound man could not send me any of his signal, I was stood directly behind the sub and one ear in one out was actually worse than both in. My issue is that in my wedding band we use lots of medleys and mash ups so I don’t automatically know structures/ bridges etc as we’ve messed them all up on purpose. Couldn’t wait to get home, it was awful. 

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, Auctioneer said:

 

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here, although I do broadly agree with you.

 

Certainly it's much more precise to know exactly what note you're playing and when, especially if the band isn't a 'jam band' (I don't use that term derisively - a lot of deps I do take a less structured approach and that has its own strength). My trepidation in using a score, other than the time required to write it, is that not everyone is a reader; in fact at least one of the people I would consider using as a dep isn't. Great player, just not something they do. Plus, you'd have to make sure your scoring was dead accurate to the band you're playing with.

 

Where the lyrics/chords approach has merit is for being able to follow along with the vocal line to get a sense of where you are. This is typically how I lay out my own reference material, with the occasional passage of notation if needed. That said, it still requires someone to know how a song goes, roughly - and your example is a good one illustrating the lack of info such an approach yields (although I do often write some instructive text for myself). I'm hoping I can secure my deps far enough in advance that they'll be able to go over all the tunes beforehand, but I suppose that doesn't account for the instances where I might be hit by a bus the day of a wedding and need someone that day who doesn't know all the songs.

 

I suppose the best approach would be a combination of all three styles, wouldn't it? Chords on top, notation below it, lyrics below that, with some structural notes written as and when needed. It would take a long time to make and get right, but maybe I just need to get on with it to give my hypothetical deps the best chance of nailing it.

To be fair, you did ask what we would like. Seems most of us would indeed like the dots.

 

When any reader can do it you'll find your dep pool gets deeper.

[Doddy]

8 hours ago, Auctioneer said:

 

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here, although I do broadly agree with you.

 

Certainly it's much more precise to know exactly what note you're playing and when, especially if the band isn't a 'jam band' (I don't use that term derisively - a lot of deps I do take a less structured approach and that has its own strength). My trepidation in using a score, other than the time required to write it, is that not everyone is a reader; in fact at least one of the people I would consider using as a dep isn't. Great player, just not something they do. Plus, you'd have to make sure your scoring was dead accurate to the band you're playing with.

 

Where the lyrics/chords approach has merit is for being able to follow along with the vocal line to get a sense of where you are. This is typically how I lay out my own reference material, with the occasional passage of notation if needed. That said, it still requires someone to know how a song goes, roughly - and your example is a good one illustrating the lack of info such an approach yields (although I do often write some instructive text for myself). I'm hoping I can secure my deps far enough in advance that they'll be able to go over all the tunes beforehand, but I suppose that doesn't account for the instances where I might be hit by a bus the day of a wedding and need someone that day who doesn't know all the songs.

 

I suppose the best approach would be a combination of all three styles, wouldn't it? Chords on top, notation below it, lyrics below that, with some structural notes written as and when needed. It would take a long time to make and get right, but maybe I just need to get on with it to give my hypothetical deps the best chance of nailing it.

Personally, I don't like lyric sheets with chords. I don't think that they convey enough information. I would rather have no charts, and just be given either a sporify link or an audio file of your band, so I can make my own if necessary.

No charts is better than bad charts.

 

With decent written parts, you are actually opening up your pool of players because you can get someone last minute if your regular deps are unavailable, who can nail the set first time.  

 

If you have decent charts and audio (and money), you can pretty much hire anyone you want.

[JapanAxe]

My preference is for parts in standard notation, with chord symbols, in PDFs. I can then import them into ForScore on my iPad.

 

It’s pretty rare for this to happen though. More often I get a set list with keys and then transcribe any numbers I don’t already know using Sibelius First, or if I’m lucky I might find a decent transcription online (e.g. tomreadbass.co.uk).