Nerdy Jazz Extension question...

[dclaassen]

Okay...I teach and recently got the audition music for our European Jazz Seminar (I work with US military related students) Most of the kids that will audition will be 16-18 yo and pretty good bassists. One of the audition pieces is "Blue Daniel"....fastish 3/4 time. Almost every chord is extended (Eb6-Db9-Cm9-F13-etc). Now, if I was creating a bass line with this, I'd use lots of arpeggiation making sure you have a root and either a 3rd or a 5th somewhere, and maybe comp some of the extensions on weak eighth note beats . I personally think it's annoying when bassists get so far into the extensions that they lose any sense of the chord structure, but that's just me. I also think it's mind-numbing when a bassist always approaches the next root from the M7. What would YOU do? Assume most of these folks will be on either upright or 4 string electric. (I'd do it on a 5). 

[itu]

I may use some of those when I approach the chord. Not through the score, but sometimes as an ingrediient. I do not think they are a must, but can add some interest to the line - sometimes.

 

I also think that a 9 gives me a hint of the direction - and this is sometimes again - where to start to build the line. 6, 7, maj7 tell me to think about a grace note or similar when I go to the chord notes upwards the scale. 9 makes me think about possibilities to go downwards the scale.

 

As you already know, these basic ideas are generalisations: the progression may drive players towards different ideas.

[dclaassen]

2 hours ago, itu said:

I may use some of those when I approach the chord. Not through the score, but sometimes as an ingrediient. I do not think they are a must, but can add some interest to the line - sometimes.

 

I also think that a 9 gives me a hint of the direction - and this is sometimes again - where to start to build the line. 6, 7, maj7 tell me to think about a grace note or similar when I go to the chord notes upwards the scale. 9 makes me think about possibilities to go downwards the scale.

 

As you already know, these basic ideas are generalisations: the progression may drive players towards different ideas.

I think the use of 9's is a great alternative to a leading tone. Nicely put, and I really appreciate your taking the time to respond.

[Guest]

If it’s in 3 then you have one beat fewer per bar to build a line, which can be a challenge, but at least it’s not a chord every two beats! If it’s a jazz tune then the extensions are a bit of a red herring because just about every decent chordal and soloing player will make use of them, even if the song doesn’t have them. Many tunes have (for example) Dm7 to G7 to Cmaj7, but any basic piano player will immediately substitute Dm9 to G13 (E is the 9 in the Dm9 and the 13 in the G13), or even G9b13 ending on Cmaj9 to get chromatic voice leading (E in the Dm9, Eb in the G9b13, D in the Cmaj9).

As a bass player nothing changes - your first and most important job is to outline the basic nature of the chord. More advanced players can weave a line that stands alone and works with the chords but that takes a lot of knowledge and practice and very much depends upon what the other musicians are playing. You are dead right that a line that sits on the extensions a lot, particularly a line with no direction or forward motion, doesn’t support the soloist and will make things sound a little flat. It’s best used when moving from one part of a solo to the next - being guided by the soloist and having good ears to hear how the chordal instrument responds makes a big difference. What would you do if the piano player suddenly started playing the chords with the same bass note (pedal tone)? First time that happened to me (unannounced) I was totally lost! After a while you get more familiar and start to anticipate these kind of changes. 
 

Specifically addressing your question, arpeggios are the bread and butter, with either scale or chromatic leading notes into the next chord. Unless the player is very skilled and experienced I wouldn’t recommend straying too far from this - getting just this skill up to speed on hundreds of standards is a few decades’ work on its own

 

[bassalbert]

maybe I am just lazy, but to me extensions have no big importance when creating a bass line. I will stick to my old faithfull triads and do my job. I hope the piano player to not step on my roots so I won't step on his chords. mostly because in the end the harmony player is who decides whether to use the extensions as written or to change them by his discretion. and to do so he expects us to play very clear.

it will be different in a drum/sax/bass trio or when there is no player playing harmony and that lets you the freedom to be more open.

in case of doubt, I try to go origins, and this guy really repeats roots with no shame and sounds amazing

 

[dclaassen]

3 hours ago, bassalbert said:

maybe I am just lazy, but to me extensions have no big importance when creating a bass line. I will stick to my old faithfull triads and do my job. I hope the piano player to not step on my roots so I won't step on his chords. mostly because in the end the harmony player is who decides whether to use the extensions as written or to change them by his discretion. and to do so he expects us to play very clear.

it will be different in a drum/sax/bass trio or when there is no player playing harmony and that lets you the freedom to be more open.

in case of doubt, I try to go origins, and this guy really repeats roots with no shame and sounds amazing

Awesome comments and example....love me a little Cannonball...:)