High power amps

[SteveXFR]

I've been using an Orange Terror 500w amp for a few years now and despite having played in two very loud doom/stoner metal bands I've not yet got past 30% volume. 

What situation would actually use that much volume? Orange also made a 1000w version of this amp. Is it just so you can say you've got 1000 Watts?

[Bolo]

As usual, cab configuration could be a factor. Or any number of other circumstances. 

[Lozz196]

In my old band I never used my Ashdown ABM600 over about 12 o’clock on volume, and that was when on pretty big stages, admittedly that was for on-stage volume only.
 

Fast forward to my current classic rock band and due to our drummer it’s on about 1 o’clock, and that’s hooked up to an 810 in a rehearsal room.
 

He’s shall we say enthusiastic.

 

But to answer the question that’s when I need the power. Ashdown checked it out for me when I bought it and it peaks at about 3 maybe 4 o’clock so I’m not far from running on full.

 

And if I didn’t have ear-plugs I think I’d be doing serious and permanent damage to my ears.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Lozz196

[Grimalkin]

Pubs that should be classed as small clubs, without sound reinforcement apart from the DJ, with whom you are competing. You don't want it to drop flat as soon as the band starts up.

 

It's better to have it and not need it, than it is to need it but not have it. That I do know.

[SteveXFR]

If I was using an all valve amp wouldn't I want it running near max on the master volume to drive the valves and get a nice bit of dirt? 

[Grimalkin]

10 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

If I was using an all valve amp wouldn't I want it running near max on the master volume to drive the valves and get a nice bit of dirt? 

 

There's no point if it drowns out the band. Around 20 years ago the guitarist from Iron Maiden Janick Gers used to pop down and see the band at what must have been his local from time to time. The singer/guitarist asked him what Steve Harris was using in power ,"About 3000 watts." he said. I know they are big stages, but there is a big bank of monitoring there too.

[Jay2U]

Open air gigs require POWER.

[gjones]

37 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

But to answer the question that’s when I need the power. Ashdown checked it out for me when I bought it and it peaks at about 3 maybe 4 o’clock

That's interesting. I played through an Ashdown Routemaster head, in my local rehearsal rooms and it didn't get any louder after 12 O'Clock. It all seems a bit Nigel Tufnel.

[Grimalkin]

Bass frequencies take a lot of juice to reproduce, that's why to compete with a 50 watt guitar amp you need a couple of hundred.

Plus, the ear isn't very efficient at lower frequencies. It prefers the guitar range. I used to run an Ashdown ABM800 through a 15+10 H and a 4x10 H stacked for some "pubs". Transistors positively glowing. 

[Downunderwonder]

I suspect the taper on your master volume is further from linear than some. 30% of the loud knob travel doesn't really tell you very much on any amp. Eg vintage Trace Elliot are about done at '4'/10.

 

Then there's the 'audio taper' that attempts to linearize the power to loudness relationship, or let a bit more out at 2 than it really should in an attempt to get more sales from in store demos.

 

The first 10w are the loudest. The next 90w go to making it twice as loud. If the cabinet would actually use 1000w with any efficiency you could go twice as loud again. But you can't.

 

 

[SteveXFR]

I'm using an Orange 4x10 cab and tuning down to drop A# plus using a Cali76 compressor and a LeBass valve preamp with the gain turned up quite a bit. Could that combination be contributing to my volume situation?

[Grimalkin]

If you're getting what you want at that setting with no discernible problems, I wouldn't worry about it. It beats lumping 18+ stone in bass backline up rusty, creaky, icy fire escapes in the dead of winter.

[msb]

In the last twenty years there’s been some pretty remarkable advances in amp and cab design. I like lightweight , modern , cabs and Class D amps and I’ve never been happier. I have a GenzBenz Streamliner , it has a three tube preamp , and 900 watts at 4 ohms , you can easily dial in whatever warmth you’re looking for , but my primary gig amp is just a simple , clean straightforward Bergantino Forte. 700 watts at 4 ohms . Two very different amps , I’m often just using an 8 ohm cab and usually run things between 3&4. Tons of headroom. Never run out of volume.
Easily the best sound I’ve had. I could run a gain pedal with the Forte , but I’ve never felt the need. I like that one simple.
 

[Leonard Smalls]

I'm currently running my helix into a stereo 2x750w Crown power amp, one channel is bass (4x10) and one octaved up with guitar Sims (2x10). There's sufficient to drown out guitar and drums should I turn up to above 11o clock.

Recommended to all bass players! 

[TimR]

I run my 500w Warwick ProFet at 4 during practice with a 2x10"

 

At gigs I add another 2x10" and it stays set at 4.

[mikel]

10 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

Pubs that should be classed as small clubs, without sound reinforcement apart from the DJ, with whom you are competing. You don't want it to drop flat as soon as the band starts up.

 

It's better to have it and not need it, than it is to need it but not have it. That I do know.

Just use a 100 watt valve amp. Sorted. 

[nekomatic]

Someone else might have a cab with the same nominal impedance as yours, but a higher actual impedance, so they'll need a bit more voltage out of the amp to realise the same power.

 

Someone else might have a less even (er, 'more dynamic') playing style than you, or use less compression, so choose to set the input gain lower to avoid the light coming on, so need more output gain to get the same power.

 

If I were an amp designer I'm sure I would want to leave some margin for each of those sort of possibilities, rather than risk someone complaining (these days, on YouTube) that my amp 'won't go loud enough' for them.

[chris_b]

I was playing my 800 watt SS amp last night, with the Master on 3. Maybe I should have used a less powerful amp. That's the problem with using a bass putting out a strong signal and sensitive cabs. Every watt sounds louder and you need fewer of them.

[Muzz]

I've yet to squish my '300w' (it may be more) Walkabout hard at any gig - for a loud gig without PA support (and why wouldn't I want that? I count it as a fail if I don't get it) I've run it through two BF cabs (full disclosure; it was a rock band, we were headlining, and it was far more for the Stacktastic look than anything else), and it was 'put-your-earplugs-in' loud...at that point you don't need any more backline power, you'll be through the PA, which (hopefully, depending on venue) has more power than you, anyway...

[msb]

They say the first hundred watts work the hardest.
I remember having to crank up older amps , and getting a more distorted sound. Sometimes the distortion was good , but often it was not , and I would have given anything at the time to have a clean signal at volume. 

I get that clean sound , with some serious slam , using modern gear. And have tons of headroom.

Edited October 4, 2022 by msb

[Muzz]

15 minutes ago, Muzz said:

I've yet to squish my '300w' (it may be more) Walkabout hard at any gig - for a loud gig without PA support (and why wouldn't I want that? I count it as a fail if I don't get it) I've run it through two BF cabs (full disclosure; it was a rock band, we were headlining, and it was far more for the Stacktastic look than anything else), and it was 'put-your-earplugs-in' loud...at that point you don't need any more backline power, you'll be through the PA, which (hopefully, depending on venue) has more power than you, anyway...

I should add I've gigged 800/900w Class D amps, too, and they were plenty loud...I'm not convinced that Loud and Watts are necessarily tied verrrry closely together; there's a lot of factors, including things like the sound you're after, for starters...

 

The day I play a stage big enough to need kw of power is the day I'm renting the rig and having someone else carry it, anyway...or I'm using in-ears and letting the PA do all the heavy lifting...

Edited October 4, 2022 by Muzz

[thodrik]

20 minutes ago, Muzz said:

I've yet to squish my '300w' (it may be more) Walkabout hard at any gig - for a loud gig without PA support (and why wouldn't I want that? I count it as a fail if I don't get it) I've run it through two BF cabs (full disclosure; it was a rock band, we were headlining, and it was far more for the Stacktastic look than anything else), and it was 'put-your-earplugs-in' loud...at that point you don't need any more backline power, you'll be through the PA, which (hopefully, depending on venue) has more power than you, anyway...

I have the same amp and it has been my main gigging amp for the better part of 13 years.

Usually I have used it in the 1x15 combo format. For three piece acts it is ideal though I have often had the master volume dialled to 60-75%. It struggles in a two guitar format when the band is playing loud, low tuned rock/metal, but through a decent cabinet it is totally fine. I have played outdoor festivals and stuck it through an Ampeg 8x10 and had headroom to spare. 

I used to have a Mesa M6 Carbine but sold it because it was too loud, clean and aggressive sounding. In addition to that the master volume had virtually no taper and acted like an on/off switch. So it had to go. I got a Mesa Big Block 750 instead which is a bit like a more powerful Walkabout but with more gain and a less sophisticated EQ. I don't think I will ever need a more powerful amp than that and it is 'only' about 500ish watts at 4 ohms.

[Muzz]

Yeah, I've used a Walkabout combo once, and that speaker doesn't let the amp 'breathe' as much as a good modern (sensitive) speaker cab (see 'BF') does. I did use it with an 810 once in a rehearsal room (because the 810 was just sitting there, and it'd have been rude not to), and it was verrrry loud. I certainly didn't notice any difference 'dropping' 500-600w going from a Class D to the Walkabout. Maybe I don't play in bands that are that loud...but my tinnitus says otherwise*...

 

* Actually, it says 'Eeeeeeeeeeee...', but that's by the by...

[TimR]

42 minutes ago, thodrik said:

low tuned rock/metal

 

Doesn't matter how loud you are, you won't cut through that without some serious EQ adjustments, especially cutting EQ from the guitars who belive that a load of what they think they're hearing is guitar. 

[SteveXFR]

I guess my biggest problem with having lots of power (with my amp at least) is that turning the knob one tenth of one degree can take it from not quite loud enough to making your ears bleed from 100 metres.