Any pitfalls for a beginner putting together a Bass?

[SumOne]

Rustins grain filler (needed as the Korina wood has a lot of big open pores), then sanding:

 

Filler/primer (Jenolite), a whole can done in a few layers. It seems a downside of light wood like Korina is that it can be a bit of a sponge for paint.

 

 

Matte Black base coat, a whole can (and some glitter creeping on)

 

Clear coat with glitter sprinked onto it while it is wet (purple, and a bit of blue and silver)

 

 

It is much more sparkly looking than the photo shows - all that purple and blue colour is from glitter. 

 

It'll now need lots of layers of clear coat to fully encase the glitter to then be sanded and polished to a smooth surface. Unfortunately, the clear coat I have seems to dull the effect of the glitter (it says it is transparent gloss, but it is uv resistant - possibly that's not a good thing if you want as much light as possible going through to the glitter and bouncing back out?).

 

Any recommendations for clear coat that is very transparent and glossy to let the glitter shine?  some  laquer sprays have a selling point of giving a vintage aged/tarnished look, I need the opposite of that. 

 

 

Edit: With clear coat and sanding it has lost the 3D and sparkly impact. From a distance under normal room lighting looks like a blotchy dark purple/blue bruise! I'm thinking I might eventually go back to the original plan of a shoddy/roadworn white, I'm not looking forward to removing the glitter though! 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by SumOne

[SumOne]

The sparkle paint job ended up looking more like a bruise once it had a few layers of clear coat! So that has been stripped off and the body is now having coats of white gloss gradually applied. I'm going to go for: White Body, Black Pickguard, Black Hardware, White Pickup covers.

 

I've bought a maple Jazz Neck from Northwest Guitars which seems good, drilling the holes into it and fitting it to the body correctly is going to be my first real challenge. 

 

One confusing thing: The neck has pre-drilled 18mm (9/16") tuner holes which I assumed are standard - aparently Hipshot don't think so though, and I want to fit Hipshot Ultrtalights and matching Xtender. They do bushings but it is all a bit confusing, (not least due to imperial fractions!), confusing enough that this website has an article on it:  https://www.btnmusic.co.uk/hipshot-us-licensed-ultralite-bushing-sizes/ It seems that US 1/2" ultralights come with a 17mm (11/16") bushing, but the licenced 1/2" ones have 16mm bushing (41/64") 🙃. Then it is only the licensed ones that fit an additional bushing  that converts their diameter of 16mm to an outsize diameter of 18mm. So if I am correct (I'm not sure I am!), I can only use licensed 1/2" ultralights (not the USA 1/2" ones), to then add a 16mm to 18mm bushing convertor. I think (hope!) the  3/8"  Xtender fits the 9/16" (18mm) holes fine though.  

 

Imperial measurements really need to be done away with!

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by SumOne

[SumOne]

Erm.... it isn't supposed to be looking Roadworn! 

 

 

The paint just seemed to stay tacky for about a week, once I started peeling at it this is what happened! 

 

I'm close to cutting my losses and stopping for the time being. This bass is proving to be a mini money/time pit and I'm only at the painting stage! 

 

(sanding paper, tung oil, Grain filler, Undercoat, black spray, glitter, heat gun, white spray, = about £80!)

Edited November 13, 2022 by SumOne

[PaulThePlug]

^ I know what ya mean.. the Hydro Dip experiment ended up with a lot of re-work.

Tuck the body away and have another look in a couple of weeks.

That metaflake looked good, so you know how to paint. Just have a re-think on the finish... nice bit of wood, i likes natural.

Hows the neck? Any pics?

Edited November 13, 2022 by PaulThePlug

[SumOne]

1 hour ago, PaulThePlug said:

^ I know what ya mean.. the Hydro Dip experiment ended up with a lot of re-work.

Tuck the body away and have another look in a couple of weeks.

That metaflake looked good, so you know how to paint. Just have a re-think on the finish... nice bit of wood, i likes natural.

Hows the neck? Any pics?

 

Cheers, yeah I'm not sure why the white gloss is peeling away. Perhaps as I've been leaving it in the garage to dry and it's getting too cold, or too soon to add each new coat. I'll give it another go in a while. 

 

The neck looks good, frets seem good and all seems to be well made. I also now have bridge and neck plate so am getting there for parts. 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by SumOne

[3below]

The natural looked good, body joints well matched for grain.  Like @PaulThePlug I am very partial to natural finishes or even better brown natural  

[vinorange]

On 13/11/2022 at 12:38, SumOne said:

Erm.... it isn't supposed to be looking Roadworn! 

 

 

The paint just seemed to stay tacky for about a week, once I started peeling at it this is what happened! 

 

I'm close to cutting my losses and stopping for the time being. This bass is proving to be a mini money/time pit and I'm only at the painting stage! 

 

(sanding paper, tung oil, Grain filler, Undercoat, black spray, glitter, heat gun, white spray, = about £80!)

If you’re feeling brave enough and fancy trying a refinish again then I’d recommend stripping back to the wood, doing the grain fill again and then using all the same paint for all of the finishing. I use Northwest guitars nitro and it’s brilliant.

 

It’s a laborious process to get a really good finish but start with nitro primer, leave to dry and then sand flat with wet / dry 800 or so. Once flat then use around 3 tins of aerosol for a good deep finish which can be polished flat. You need to spray 8 to 10 thin coats and leave 20 mins between each coat. Then it’s off somewhere warmish to dry for 2 weeks. I use kovax 1500 scratch free polishing paper to flat the finish down. If you shine UV light onto the body you know when you’re ready to polish when there are no little shiny spots left (the natural orange peel finish of an aerosol needs a lot of flatting but a couple of hours will see the last shiny spot disappear). Then use Meguires cut and polish and you will not believe how pro a finish you can get. A lot of those tips came from Jon Shuker and he should know......

 

If you fancy a go and get stuck anywhere I’d be happy to reply to any PMs as you go as I’ve refinished around 20 basses now and all came out very close to factory (accepting that they were nitro and not poly).

 

 

 

[SumOne]

1 hour ago, vinorange said:

If you’re feeling brave enough and fancy trying a refinish again then I’d recommend stripping back to the wood, doing the grain fill again and then using all the same paint for all of the finishing. I use Northwest guitars nitro and it’s brilliant.

 

It’s a laborious process to get a really good finish but start with nitro primer, leave to dry and then sand flat with wet / dry 800 or so. Once flat then use around 3 tins of aerosol for a good deep finish which can be polished flat. You need to spray 8 to 10 thin coats and leave 20 mins between each coat. Then it’s off somewhere warmish to dry for 2 weeks. I use kovax 1500 scratch free polishing paper to flat the finish down. If you shine UV light onto the body you know when you’re ready to polish when there are no little shiny spots left (the natural orange peel finish of an aerosol needs a lot of flatting but a couple of hours will see the last shiny spot disappear). Then use Meguires cut and polish and you will not believe how pro a finish you can get. A lot of those tips came from Jon Shuker and he should know......

 

If you fancy a go and get stuck anywhere I’d be happy to reply to any PMs as you go as I’ve refinished around 20 basses now and all came out very close to factory (accepting that they were nitro and not poly).

 

 

 

Nice one, thanks. That's appreciated. 

 

Yeah I think like you say - the white gloss needed lighter coats and longer to dry between them (and inside rather in the cold garage overnight). 

 

On the plus side, it looks like stripping this paint off will be easy!

[Geek99]

Do you have a neck plate ? I’ve got lots of those kicking around 

[SumOne]

Just now, Geek99 said:

Do you have a neck plate ? I’ve got lots of those kicking around 

Cheers, I have a neck plate and bridge now. 

[SumOne]

I've now got something that resembles a Bass!

 

Northwest Guitars body and neck fit together perfectly (the body needed the truss rod access drilled out though)

 

All the painting/stripping/re-painting/re-stripping I've done so far might have been a waste of time as the natural look works quite well with the almost matching neck. I'll stick with this look  for the time being (at least until it sucesfully makes Bass noises!).

 

Tung oil layers are currently being applied - something I've learned (if internet commenters are to be believed) is that it is a slow process and in some ways might not be easier than painting (certainly not quicker). It takes 5+ layers, each layer needs to be sanded in and left for up to 3 days to dry, and a full cure can take 15-45 days (longer for cold damp conditions).  Then I guess a top wax layer might also be needed as the wood is soft and porous, or clear coat......so actually, trying another paint job might be easier (third time lucky!).

 

I've got the electrics (from six string supplies), and the remaining parts are probably on a boat from China right now: Tonerider TRP1 pickups, black scratchplate, black tuners...I think chrome hardware might have looked better if I go for the natural wood look though.  

 

 

 

I have a normal 57/62 type scratchplate on the way but as the pickup to controls routing is a drilled hole rather than being cut out I'm thinking perhaps cutting the scratchplate to just cover the controls could be a good look (bonus being there are no scratchplate holes in the body yet). Something like an aneamic version of Leland Sklar's (but without the extra pickups and famous signatures!) 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by SumOne

[Andyjr1515]

Just catching up.  Welcome to the challenges of finishing - it's a rocky climb!

 

The most important thing is that you have a neck and body that fit nicely and the strings and bridge line up!  

 

Just reading your thread, there are many things that can affect adhesion of paints (which is why, generally, I don't do paint finishes), but one of them is certainly that many, if not most, manufactured bodies have a residue on the surface and always benefit from a thorough sanding before doing anything.  It may or may not have anything to do with the problems you had (did you use a primer?) but I was reminded of this when I saw the tung oil result...it looks surprisingly light coloured.  Is that residue of the white paint there too?

 

If so, it might be worth giving the body a rigorous sanding - right down to proper bare wood and then try the tung oil (other oils work OK - Tru-oil; Danish Oil; etc) which might soak better into the wood, darken it and be quicker to dry.

 

The test if you are sanding is to take a clean facecloth or dish cloth, soak it in water, squeeze it out and wipe the surface of the sanded wood.  The dampness should darken the wood as the water soaks into the grain.  Any residue of manufacturing or previous finishes will show up as light patches.  When the dampness darkens the wood and is pretty even, then you know you are down to un-contaminated timber and then you can let it dry before starting the first 'soak in' coats of your preferred finish. 

[SumOne]

On 27/11/2022 at 09:35, Andyjr1515 said:

Just catching up.  Welcome to the challenges of finishing - it's a rocky climb!

 

The most important thing is that you have a neck and body that fit nicely and the strings and bridge line up!  

 

Just reading your thread, there are many things that can affect adhesion of paints (which is why, generally, I don't do paint finishes), but one of them is certainly that many, if not most, manufactured bodies have a residue on the surface and always benefit from a thorough sanding before doing anything.  It may or may not have anything to do with the problems you had (did you use a primer?) but I was reminded of this when I saw the tung oil result...it looks surprisingly light coloured.  Is that residue of the white paint there too?

 

If so, it might be worth giving the body a rigorous sanding - right down to proper bare wood and then try the tung oil (other oils work OK - Tru-oil; Danish Oil; etc) which might soak better into the wood, darken it and be quicker to dry.

 

The test if you are sanding is to take a clean facecloth or dish cloth, soak it in water, squeeze it out and wipe the surface of the sanded wood.  The dampness should darken the wood as the water soaks into the grain.  Any residue of manufacturing or previous finishes will show up as light patches.  When the dampness darkens the wood and is pretty even, then you know you are down to un-contaminated timber and then you can let it dry before starting the first 'soak in' coats of your preferred finish. 

 

Nice one, you are probably right about the oil. I did a sand>tung>primer>paint and I don't think I gave the oil long enough to fully cure (and I guess it probably wasn't actually needed at all). I only gave it a few days which is aparrently okay for each new coat to dry but I've since read that it can take upto 40 days for it to fully set (particularaly as I left it in a cool and damp garage). 

 

So right now I have sanded it back more so there is none of the white visible and have added a couple of layers of tung oil (about 3 days apart) and it is getting a bit darker. I'm in two minds to either keep adding layers of oil or to leave it in the airing cupboard for a few weeks before painting again. It looks okay bare but is still soft enough that the wood can be dented with a fingernail so it'll either need more layers of oil or some sort of clear coat or paint to give more protection.

Edited December 5, 2022 by SumOne

[PaulThePlug]

1@SumOne like the small controlcontro idea... @Velarian did something with his P to give a similar look to his Jazz...

[Velarian]

8 minutes ago, PaulThePlug said:

1@SumOne like the small controlcontro idea... @Velarian did something with his P to give a similar look to his Jazz...

 

Here you go. The control plate was cut from a ‘Phil Lynott’ style mirrored scratchplate. Ideally I would have preferred a chromed metal one but couldn’t source one that looked like I wanted. I had intended to get one custom made but never got around to it. A word of warning if you go for the MusicMan style plate like the Leland Sklar bass it won’t fit in the right place with opening up the control cavity routing. This is mentioned in my build thread.
 

[Andyjr1515]

8 hours ago, SumOne said:

I'm in two minds to either keep adding layers of oil or to leave it in the airing cupboard for a few weeks before painting again.

It depends what kind of paint to an extent, but most paints won't like an undercoat of tung oil or similar.  If it looks OK just oiled, I would stick with that. 

 

If you want a paint finish, it really needs to start with bare wood again, sanding-sealered, primer coated (primer is essential) and then the final colour and clear coats.

 

Most of the easier home finishes are going to be soft enough to fail the fingernail test - even the polyurethane finishes I often use will protect from normal use but will dint relatively easily.  Rock-hard finishes are usually into two-part resin and similar territory...much harder and usually come with a significant ramp up of safety precautions, skills and equipment. 

[benh]

Another option could be to wait for the tung oil to fully cure, then do a couple of wash coats of shellac (dewaxed) before priming and colour coating as normal. The shellac should act as a barrier and stop any adverse reaction.

[SumOne]

Thanks for all the useful information.

 

It is taking shape with a Precision body and Jazz neck:

 

 

Felt a bit nervous putting the full tension into all the strings - a test if the parts can all take it without the sound of cracking wood! But all good, it sounds and plays fine acoustically and everything seems to be lined up as it shoud with what already seems like an alright action before adjusting the truss rod and the frets all seem to be the right height.

 

Tonerider TRP1 pickups (just resting in the cavity to check they fit) and I also have the electrics (from Northwest Guitars), and have some black strap buttons and a string tree to fit. I'm just waiting for a cheap black scratchplate now which seems to be on a month long voyage from China. 

 

For the time being I'll just stick with the natural wood, will see how it looks with the full scratchplate or perhaps cutting that down to just cover the controls. Once I've got it making amplified Bass noises I might give painting another go (if I can be bothered taking it all apart again!),  probably white, but as I can pick and choose perhaps should go with something a bit more unique like purple. 

 

If I feel brave I might drill a hole in the headstock to move the G tuning peg to be facing down (like a Stingray's 3+1) and cut off the end of the headstock just because it seems a simple way to make the Bass a bit more compact and save a bit of weight at the far end of the neck, would make it a bit more unique too.

 

Total cost looks like it'll be a bit less than £350 for parts which is okay if it sounds and plays something like a Squier. If I really like the way it plays then some hipshot ultralight tuners and an xtender might be on the shopping list at some point, but that adds about £200.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by SumOne

[Andyjr1515]

Looks great!  

[Hellzero]

Nice job!

[Reggaebass]

Looking good, I’ve got a precision with Toneriders, they sound great 

[Hellzero]

I love ToneRider, as good if not better than boutique pickups without robbing the bank.

[SumOne]

Complete! 

 

 

Wiring done and pleasantly suprised when plugged in and it sounds like a decent P Bass, controls working as they should, grounding all good etc. and the neck/frets/action are all good. 

 

Quite lightweight at 3.7kg. And I guess lightweight tuners could get it down to less than 3.5kg.

 

I'd say it is somewhere between Squier and Player series quality, and it cost about £350 in parts so not too bad value for money (if you don't consider time as a cost!). 

 

Possibly will get some volume and tone knobs but I quite like it as it is. And might go for the 3+1 headstock reshape if I get bored/brave. And I might get ultralight tuners, hipshot xtender and a fancy bridge if I feel flash with the cash at some point. But for the time being - job done!