C4ists - equalising patch levels?

[Jakester]

Calling all C4ists!

 

Has anyone found an easy way to ensure patch levels are broadly equal (or at or about unity) when switching on?

 

I have some different patches from different sources, and I've tried to map the controls so they're broadly consistent. I've switched to WYSIWYG so ideally there's a 'master' vol which is set broadly the same when activated, but I still get wildly different patch volumes. 

 

Should I forget WYSIWYG and try a different method? 

 

Any other tips/tricks?

[Stingray64]

Warning: long comment with no actual C4 advice, sorry about that🥴

 

I don't use the C4 but I do use a ton of synth sounds so I thought I would drop in a few general tips.

You can download a decibel meter on your phone that can help to give you something more objective. But db meters are not always representative of perceived volume.

 

Speaking of perceived volume, a lot of synth related stuff can sound like a different volume on their own than in a mix, so it's worth being aware of and prioritising the mix sound while on your own. For example, big muff style fuzzes need to seem louder when they're on than off to be equal in a mix. Drives and compressors in general make things seem louder in (normally) a good way without actually being much higher db.

 

Many things in your synth chain can increase or decrease your output volume, try to compensate for this at each stage as you go, or if not possible then keep track and compensate at the very end of the chain.

 

Finally, synth sounds should be different volumes to an extent since they often take up very different roles and places in a mix. Just go with your gut and make sure you're prepared to adjust volume on the fly to follow your instincts.

 

 

 

[Jakester]

Thanks - I'm not talking about slight level differences, I mean changing a couple of patches has a massive difference in volume. It's okay to adjust (but because the C4 has mappable controls it's not always the 'level' control that is the volume if using user patches!) but it's that initial blast I'd like to get rid of. 

 

I do think it's a question of a bit more manual diving....

Edited October 7, 2022 by Jakester

[thisisswanbon]

I've always done this by ear.  I set the blend to fully clean and make sure the patch output is unity or there abouts to disengaged volume, then get the sound I want and look at setting my volume based on the job I'm doing with said patch.

 

(Genuine answer, apologies if this comes off condescending... not intended at all.)

[stewblack]

It's a total bloody nightmare this question. All the more so with pedals designed for bedroom use with an absence of the controls most needed for on the fly changes. 

If you find an answer I'll be waiting to hear it!

[Jakester]

On 20/10/2022 at 13:43, stewblack said:

It's a total bloody nightmare this question. All the more so with pedals designed for bedroom use with an absence of the controls most needed for on the fly changes. 

If you find an answer I'll be waiting to hear it!

Still working on it, closest answer so far is to make sure all of the patches are eq’d at a sound check with the levels adjusted as appropriate - the pedal retains those changes until switched off, so provided you’re not taking everything off stage again it should be fine.  
 

Longer term I think it’s going to be a case of literally A/B ing each patch, but I realistically don’t think I’ll have the time to actually do it!

[Quatschmacher]

On 24/10/2022 at 22:38, Jakester said:

Still working on it, closest answer so far is to make sure all of the patches are eq’d at a sound check with the levels adjusted as appropriate - the pedal retains those changes until switched off, so provided you’re not taking everything off stage again it should be fine.  
 

Longer term I think it’s going to be a case of literally A/B ing each patch, but I realistically don’t think I’ll have the time to actually do it!

If you store your sounds as normal then change the pedal to “preset” mode at your rehearsal you can then then adjust the volume knob to set the level and then long press the footswitch to store the change. Be careful not to adjust any other parameter before saving unless you want to overwrite the parameter. 

[stewblack]

I have had a breakthrough!

I found on the desktop editor a knob assign setting. It's near the bottom and only appears to affect two of the on pedal controls, the bottom two. Labelled appropriately in the C4 but not on the Spectrum, but they're the same. I select input gain for control 1 and master for control 2 and any discrepancy in the output is easily corrected on the fly.

Any failure to prompt the envelope can be adjusted on control 1. 

It's very satisfying.

[thisisswanbon]

2 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I have had a breakthrough!

I found on the desktop editor a knob assign setting. It's near the bottom and only appears to affect two of the on pedal controls, the bottom two. Labelled appropriately in the C4 but not on the Spectrum, but they're the same. I select input gain for control 1 and master for control 2 and any discrepancy in the output is easily corrected on the fly.

Any failure to prompt the envelope can be adjusted on control 1. 

It's very satisfying.

I do the same thing, except I adjust the low end EQ instead of input gain with control 1.  The only issue with this is if you catch one of the other controls without realising and then overwrite your preset (which I've done more than once 🤦‍♂️) 

[stewblack]

44 minutes ago, thisisswanbon said:

I do the same thing, except I adjust the low end EQ instead of input gain with control 1.  The only issue with this is if you catch one of the other controls without realising and then overwrite your preset (which I've done more than once 🤦‍♂️) 

I've yet to find how to assign my own controls to the top two knobs

 

[SumOne]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

I've yet to find how to assign my own controls to the top two knobs

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that is possible. 

[thisisswanbon]

I meant if you physically change one of the knobs by accident while changing the lower ones on the fly and then long press without realising you've done it.  It would be much more beneficial to be able to change all 4 controls though.

 

I'd have preferred 6-8 smaller self assignable knobs like the Bananana Matryoska, but no doubt there'd be as many people put off by that... can't please everyone 🤷‍♂️

[SumOne]

4 minutes ago, thisisswanbon said:

I meant if you physically change one of the knobs by accident while changing the lower ones on the fly and then long press without realising you've done it.  It would be much more beneficial to be able to change all 4 controls though.

 

I'd have preferred 6-8 smaller self assignable knobs like the Bananana Matryoska, but no doubt there'd be as many people put off by that... can't please everyone 🤷‍♂️

 

I know I keep banging on about it but I feel the C4 is really let down by being squeezed into the hardware it is in - it is fine for the Aftershock, Gemini/Mercury/Lunar, but there is so much more going on with the C4 that it would benefit for more hands-on control, housing it like the Ventris/Collider/Nemesis would be a big improvement for me.

[Quatschmacher]

On 11/11/2022 at 16:48, SumOne said:

 

I know I keep banging on about it but I feel the C4 is really let down by being squeezed into the hardware it is in - it is fine for the Aftershock, Gemini/Mercury/Lunar, but there is so much more going on with the C4 that it would benefit for more hands-on control, housing it like the Ventris/Collider/Nemesis would be a big improvement for me.

It’s not so much the housing size but the control method. Have patience, cool stuff is coming.