Ever been asked for "that classic Precision sound"?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='rslaing' post='467926' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:03 PM']If that is what they want, and they pay the money, who are we to question them? And if they want an EXACT sound, the VB99 is a great investment for the studio session player who wants to get the requested sound without having to carry a lot of basses around. It also replicates a huge variation of cabs and amps and is a dream for the engineer when all he wants is a good clean D.I. £700 is not a lot of money if you are a pro, good at what you do and can deliver on the spot![/quote]

surely if you want an EXACT sound of a fender P bass you get a fender P bass? not a computer?

[rslaing]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='467994' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:04 AM']surely if you want an EXACT sound of a fender P bass you get a fender P bass? not a computer?[/quote]

A Roland VB 99 is not a computer. A modelling unit like the vb99 is really an extension of the available equipment that musicians have to give variety in sound and tone, and is really a natural development. 50 years ago bass players laughed at Leo Fender and said that the bass guitar would never take off and outsell the traditional double bass. 300 years ago, the acoustic piano was derided. 600 years ago certain scales were actually outlawed.

All music recorded now ends up from a computer or a digital "end" in one way or another. Regardless of the original source.

Everything you listen to except the rare live gig where people play with acoustic instruments is affected by electronics. The idea of utilising modern technology without removing the human creative instinct is purely for convenience and to satisfy the demand of the modern marketplace. Yes, it would be great to turn up at a studio with every bass ever made for a specific sound, but it just isn't practical. A good bass player, who can read music, play in a variety of styles, and can reproduce any sound at the flick of a switch, will get a lot of work. Unfortunate for the diehards, but not for the progressive modern bass player.

As a musician, if you don't move with the times, and are not prepared to fulfil the requirements of the paymasters, you will not be an earning musician for long.

It is the notes that really matter, sounds and tonal quality are much less important - but fashion and record sales dictate that it is important that a pro musician has as much as possible in their "armoury" to satisfy the people that pay their wages.

[The Bass Doc]

The idea of modelling, sampling etc. seems intriguing BUT can you imagine a top producer calling in Pino Palladino (with '62 P-bass) to do a session and then saying 'it's OK but I'm going to put the signal through a gadget to make you sound more like Marcus Miller playing an active Jazz'. I reckon the response would involve said producer having to walk with a slightly different gait. Further down the line the producer decides not to spend big money on people like Pino or Marcus and instead hires in local bass player with his VB 99 - can you imagine it happening? I could be wrong but I'd like to think there will always be a need for individual expression by a player whose talent is so unique (and we're ALL unique) that no electronics will fully replace him and his sound.

Neutral observers please note this is not a dig at rslaing whom I respect as a talented musician and a good friend - he is also bigger than me.

As Hitler once said 'Opinions are like testicles - we all have one'.

Edited April 21, 2009 by The Bass Doc

[john_the_bass]

When I was thinking of letting go of just one of my basses, it would probably have been my 'Ray. OK, so the Precision does pretty much one thing, but it's one thing that seems to fit in with most styles of music - it's just there, it doesn't need to cut through to be heard (or felt). Some of you may disagree, but a P has always worked for me in the bands I've been in.

[hubrad]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='467829' date='Apr 20 2009, 08:42 PM']An old-school bassist friend once said he thought a Precision sounded 'woody' and a Jazz sounded 'fruity' - however you have to have owned them to get the idea.[/quote]
[attachment=24173:jillygoolden.jpg]
Give me intense fruit!


[quote name='LukeFRC' post='467856' date='Apr 20 2009, 09:14 PM']Like a status is a M16 and the P bass is a flintlock. They both do the same thing, just differently.[/quote]
You can kill at half a mile with a Status but will likely lose your eyebrows or nose with a Precision?

[risingson]

[quote name='Josh' post='467935' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:08 PM']Noted .

Still, I've had no complaints for just favoring the neck pick up, both my Siggery and MTD deliver a precision tone in spades.[/quote]

No offense (I'm sure that MTD sounds great), but I'm actually of the belief that nothing sounds like a P-bass other than a P-bass. No point on putting a striped coat on a lion and telling me it's a tiger sort of thing.

Interestingly, I reckon the main reason the likes of Sadowsky and Pensa Suhr in NYC started recreating classic jazz and precisions to their own specs is because most of the time, engineers back in the day would rarely entertain the idea of having anything other than a Fender bass on their records.

[rslaing]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='468128' date='Apr 21 2009, 09:44 AM']The idea of modelling, sampling etc. seems intriguing BUT can you imagine a top producer calling in Pino Palladino (with '62 P-bass) to do a session and then saying 'it's OK but I'm going to put the signal through a gadget to make you sound more like Marcus Miller playing an active Jazz'. I reckon the response would involve said producer having to walk with a slightly different gait. Further down the line the producer decides not to spend big money on people like Pino or Marcus and instead hires in local bass player with his VB 99 - can you imagine it happening? I could be wrong but I'd like to think there will always be a need for individual expression by a player whose talent is so unique (and we're ALL unique) that no electronics will fully replace him and his sound.[/quote]

Hi Bass Doc,

I agree with you entirely.

My point was though, that the "jobbing" session player has to be equipped as fully as possible to meet every requirement. I have a VB99, but only use it occasionally. If a top producer wants to hire a top player, he will do so because he probably needs that players "signature sound", and possibly his name too.

Unfortunately, most session bass players are not hired for any other reason than they can do a fairly good job. And if they can turn up, play brilliantly and get a great sound out of a broomstick with wires on it fed through a VB99 - I do not think anyone would care. Even if we don't like the idea in principle (us old conservative types at least).

(Puts tin hat on)

[The Bass Doc]

Greetings Berb (rslaing) - it's so good to share views with you. Next time you pop over to mine you must bring that broomstick thing you've mentioned - I'm due to see LT soon and could arrange to have it fretted for you.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='468128' date='Apr 21 2009, 09:44 AM']The idea of modelling, sampling etc. seems intriguing BUT can you imagine a top producer calling in Pino Palladino (with '62 P-bass) to do a session and then saying 'it's OK but I'm going to put the signal through a gadget to make you sound more like Marcus Miller playing an active Jazz'. I reckon the response would involve said producer having to walk with a slightly different gait. Further down the line the producer decides not to spend big money on people like Pino or Marcus and instead hires in local bass player with his VB 99 - can you imagine it happening? I could be wrong but I'd like to think there will always be a need for individual expression by a player whose talent is so unique (and we're ALL unique) that no electronics will fully replace him and his sound.[/quote]

But you don't hire Pino (or any other 'name' player with a signature sound) if what you really want is Marcus.

As rslaing says later modelling is a blessing for those gigs where you are hired because you're simply a bass player who can play the notes rather than a particular bass player with a particular sound.

[lowdown]

Never been asked for a P Bass sound.
Engineers always want a clean signal usually with there DI box,
Or in my case i always use a Sans amp DI - never had a complaint about that.
Theres never time to mess with pre-amps...They wanna spend all there time on the Drums.
'Whats this sound like?' 'whats that sound like?'
They just want a full clean signal...
Oh and no fret buzzing or clanking getting in the way.
Producers are always mincing about and worrying about other things,
to be bothered about the P Bass sound.

And after all, when they have finished fu**ing around in Pro-Tools,
With surgical EQ and whatever,
The Bass usually sounds like...
Well nothing from this Earth.

Garry

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='468285' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:49 AM']But you don't hire Pino (or any other 'name' player with a signature sound) if what you really want is Marcus.[/quote]

Yeah that's what I meant - you hire the man who has the sound rather than a.n. other with gadget. Unless of course budget restrictions dictate the latter in which case rsl's point is spot on.

[Golchen]

I don't see the big deal when 99% of the time the bass is so low in the mix anyway ..........

[rslaing]

[quote name='lowdown' post='468337' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:21 PM']And after all, when they have finished fu**ing around in Pro-Tools,
With surgical EQ and whatever,
The Bass usually sounds like...
Well nothing from this Earth. [/quote]

Exactly my point, and this always happens unless you are a big enough name to have some influence on the production.

So, fellow players, just concentrate on the notes and your ability levels instead of the equipment!

[budget bassist]

[quote name='Golchen' post='468396' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:50 PM']I don't see the big deal when 99% of the time the bass is so low in the mix anyway ..........[/quote]
I agree, a lot of the time, when it's in the mix, you really can't tell the difference anyway.

[chris_b]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='467139' date='Apr 20 2009, 12:46 AM']....A while back I was chatting to another pro bass player who was saying that every serious session player should have a vintage Precision in their armoury. Now I know some producers ask for a "classic bass sound" and I've had others who've been very happy to let me play what I'm happy playing, but has anyone ever been expected to play a Precision or any other specific bass?[/quote]
My experience of "producers" is that they will make anything you turn up with sound just like they always make a bass sound like!

You have to climb a lot higher up the food chain, than the level I got to, in order to get a producer that would be good enough to make a Pre CBS Fender sound like it should!

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='chris_b' post='468477' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:50 PM']My experience of "producers" is that they will make anything you turn up with sound just like they always make a bass sound like![/quote]

I was thinking similar things myself. The reason why they ask for a "classic Precision sound" is that it saves them a lot of effort tweaking your bass to sound like a "classic Precision".

S.P.

[molan]

I was once asked at an audition if I had something that just looked like a Precision (they didn't care what it sounded like!)

Mind you - they even compromised by asking for something that simply looked like a bass - my Zon VB4 didn't appear to qualify on this level

[BassBod]

Good point on the looks. My few experiences of the "pro" world have all involved comments extolling the virtues of "classic gear" or "vintage vibe" - and a Pbass, Jbass or clone will (it seems) often be taken more seriously than something like a JD/Status/Alembic/Overwater/whateveryouplay .

Now I doubt many (bass players or not) could tell a Pbass in a blind test, from most other basses on neck pickup. My Jazz does a very good P impression..on the neck pickup alone. Add flatwound strings and you're 80% there for "old school". I recently moved my very good "old Pbass" on...and put flats on an Alembic Epic. What a great sound! Classic...vintage...vibey...deep...but also better.

BB

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='468486' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:54 PM']I was thinking similar things myself. The reason why they ask for a "classic Precision sound" is that it saves them a lot of effort tweaking your bass to sound like a "classic Precision".

S.P.[/quote]


When we went into the studio to record several songs, I brought my P with me to record this song - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=3888"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?act=attach...ost&id=3888[/url] as I thought it would be just the right instrument for the job. P bass strung with half rounds, tiny bit of dirt on the amp - got to the mixing stage, "right", says the engineer bloke, "let's make that sound a bit more modern"

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='468792' date='Apr 21 2009, 05:10 PM']When we went into the studio to record several songs, I brought my P with me to record this song - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=3888"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?act=attach...ost&id=3888[/url] as I thought it would be just the right instrument for the job. P bass strung with half rounds, tiny bit of dirt on the amp - got to the mixing stage, "right", says the engineer bloke, "let's make that sound a bit more modern" [/quote]

still sounds like a P bass!

I've done a fair bit of live PA and you can tell the difference, its to do with how you approach the tone to make it fit in the mix.

[Pookus]

A lot of this depends on how creative the producer(s) are. True, in my experience I've had producers / engineers DI my bass straight into the board, but I usually take a head and some cabs to a session just in case. I have had producers who want a sound coloured by miking up speakers etc. Often they dont' know what sound they are after ubtil they have heard something they like. Its good to offer alternatives. Personally I love P basses but there are good ones and not so good ones and they don't all sound the same either.