Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!

[JohnSlade07]

I'me made the mistake in the past of spending hours in the past working on scales, arpeggios etc, learning "demanding" basslines and fretting about gear. I've then turned up to a gig and forgotten how to play Make Me Smile, despite having played if for years. Then again I'm dim.

[JohnSlade07]

I'me made the mistake in the past of spending hours in the past working on scales, arpeggios etc, learning "demanding" basslines and fretting about gear. I've then turned up to a gig and forgotten how to play Make Me Smile, despite having played if for years. Then again I'm dim.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='467447' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:50 PM']We all do it. There is a list of bass lines that seem to be essential learning for bass players; 'Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick', 'Teen Town', 'Amazing Grace' by Wooten, that thing by Stu Hamm - you know the stuff I am talking about. It's all over YouTube.

So we all go learn it and what? We only ever play it to impress people who aren't musicians (if it looks harder than it is) or to impress other musicians (if it is harder than it looks). We waste hours of study time learning a chunk of Stanley Clarke, or a wodge of Les Claypool, a modicum of Mark King or a pinch of Jaco or Flea. We should be studying music not musicians licks. These are just party tricks not core skills.[/quote]

I learned Rhythm Stick from scratch a couple of months ago, because I was playing a wedding and the bridegroom requested it.

[steve]

I spent many years in an originals band, just playing our own stuff, jamming ideas, doing occasional gigs when we could get them and it was great, we were musical puritans maintaining our credibility and integrity in out own little ivory tower. Gigs were scarce, unless we wanted to do flyer deals on a tuesday night (which wore very thin extremely quickly)
so a while ago we decided to switch to about 90% covers in order to get pub gigs, maybe a bit of cash in our back pockets and have a laugh.

I found the process of learning batches of other peoples songs an enriching experience, the opportunity to see how some other players might approach a song, how different rhythm sections interact etc etc etc. I do practice scales, hanon etc, and I still practice bach, but playing other peoples basslines is also a rewarding part of playing that you can learn from.

[Bilbo]

I am not critical of people learning other pwoplw's basslines at all. Its an essential part of the process of development. Its the hundreds of hours spent learning pieces that are hard because they are hard but which are, ultimately, a very inefficient way of learning stuff. Weather Report's 'River People' may be a 'great' way of learning octaves but why not just learn octaves and waste less time?

[The Funk]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='469520' date='Apr 22 2009, 12:46 PM']I am not critical of people learning other pwoplw's basslines at all.[/quote]

I don't speak Cymraeg.

[Bilbo]

Neither do I. Someone just moved my keyboard 1 cm to the right at just the wrong moment.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='469587' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:38 PM']Neither do I. Someone just moved my keyboard 1 cm to the right at just the wrong moment.[/quote]


It's all that 1 handed typing Bilbo.

[lowdown]

'Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!, We all do it but we shouldn't....'

Endless hours of posting on Forums?....


Garry

[The Funk]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='469520' date='Apr 22 2009, 12:46 PM']I am not critical of people learning other pwoplw's basslines at all. Its an essential part of the process of development. Its the hundreds of hours spent learning pieces that are hard because they are hard but which are, ultimately, a very inefficient way of learning stuff. Weather Report's 'River People' may be a 'great' way of learning octaves but why not just learn octaves and waste less time? [/quote]

I see what you mean. I think some people learn the showpiece tunes purely for fun and others for their development on the instrument. If it's for fun, there's no harm. If it's a roundabout way of picking up a particular technique, then yeah, I totally agree with you.

[steve]

[quote name='lowdown' post='469598' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:53 PM']'Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!, We all do it but we shouldn't....'

Endless hours of posting on Forums?....


Garry[/quote]

nail on the head

[Bobo_Grimmer]

[quote name='AM1' post='467654' date='Apr 20 2009, 05:35 PM']I couldn't agree more.

I started out by learning a few basslines and quickly concluded that this as a learning style is not really conducive to player development.

I've dumped learning other people's basslines and now spend hours writing/developing my own basslines and learning theory/technique stuff.

It takes a lot of discipline to step away from learning basslines, there are countless basslines I would love to sit down and learn. But what will I really gain in terms of musicianship?

Now and again I jam along to music to break up the boredom of theory, but ultimately doing proper music study is my weapon of choice.

Anyone can be a bassline jukebox if they put the hours in, but being an actual bass player is a different proposition.

All in my humble opinion.[/quote]

+1

[quote name='AM1' post='467671' date='Apr 20 2009, 05:46 PM']Amen to that. If you focus too hard on learning certain people's basslines, you constrain the development of your own style. I like to see a bass player with a distinct bass playing "personality".



Good example. There's plenty of these guys around and whilst they tend to be technically good, there's no feeling whatsoever in their playing.

Anyone can learn to become a "technician" by playing someone else's basslines in the same style. But a vast majority of players have not developed "musicianship" i.e. phrasing, feel, groove.

A player with fantastic phrasing beats a "technican" hands down, every time.[/quote]

I agree. i've gigged with people who blast thro some technical monstrosity during the sound check, the audience 'ooooh's' , the other muso's think, we're in for a good show, then they all get up there, 'we're the band bla bla' and play like a junior band from secondary school.

I used to, and still try sometimes, to learn some 'cool' riff's/lick's but i always find myself loosing interest in the original track and start jamming my own version.

I do know other musician's tho that do learn a lot from playing other peoples stuff. IMO Maybe some of use learn, practice and absorb musical skill ect in different way's. For some of us it seem's a wast and some of us it's essential.

[quote name='lowdown' post='469598' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:53 PM']'Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!, We all do it but we shouldn't....'

Endless hours of posting on Forums?....


Garry[/quote]

+1 lol

[Jase]

Tried Teen Town etc, gave up! Tried Silly Putty, School Days, etc gave up! Tried loads of Sheehan...bad clone tone! gave up! I can't really play anything by any of the bass players I'm into. I think I give up to easily too.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='lowdown' post='469598' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:53 PM']'Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!, We all do it but we shouldn't....'

Endless hours of posting on Forums?....


Garry[/quote]

Depends on whether you could be practicing instead. If you are posting with a bass and amp next to you, I agree. But miost of us are not. If I was at home, I wouldn't be typing this

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='469640' date='Apr 22 2009, 02:46 PM']Depends on whether you could be practicing instead. If you are posting with a bass and amp next to you, I agree. But miost of us are not. If I was at home, I wouldn't be typing this [/quote]

Hmm. Excuse me while I waste another ten minutes reflecting on my own procrastination...

I'm supposed to be working, to be fair. I'd feel more guilty if I picked up a bass.

[urb]

Recently anything I've decided to learn - i.e. by ear/transcribe - has been to improve certain aspects of my playing - be it the head to Freedom Jazz Dance - or an odd-metered Wooten line or a particularly tricky riff from a Garaj Mahal song... these are all things that I don't want to learn to perform some bass-stunts to impress people - these are challenging bits of music that are hard to master for a variety of reasons. I still play Teen Town, Donna Lee, Inner Urge etc as part of a whole bunch of tunes I know - but always try and find something fresh in them.

If I do look at certain aspects of another bassist.guitarist/trumpeter's playing I'm more interested in the musical ideas they use rather than coping their licks - or if I learn a particular lick I like to know why it works and how to apply it in every key etc.

I don't think it's a waste of time to learn the odd flashy bass thing but I do think it's sometimes a bit crap when certain players I've seen have just learnt a ton of Vic Wooten or Jaco tunes and not actually managed to write anything original... coming up with your own ideas and applying various techniques and musical ideas within that context is a better use of your time I think.

M

[The Funk]

[quote name='urb' post='470507' date='Apr 23 2009, 11:28 AM']the head to Freedom Jazz Dance[/quote]

Video or transcription request please.

[cris the man]

recently , i stumbled upon dream theaters concept album 'scenes from a memory pt2.'
quite frankly the most impressive album i've ever listened to besides 'space ritual' on vinyl.

I wouldn't say i'm learning it to impress people, more to impress myself?
Most people i come across haven't heard of Dream Theater, and if they have they often quote them as 'cheesy'.

I find that learning this will help me compose using advanced techniques also

[Aussiephoenix]

I dont know if I agree with the OP completely...
Everyone is diferent, some deal with boring theory easily, others not really, some have a good ear, some dont.

With me, thats what got me playing, when a fine day, I found that I could pretty effortlessly "duplicate" the sounds I was hearing coming from the tapedeck on my dad's old guitar.
I didnt know what I was doing, but who cares? I was doing it!
When I got a bass, I obsessed with chillipeppers. I knew how to play all of BSSM and previous stuff. Every band that I came across since then, I've picked out a few riffs to learn...
I have no formal theory classes, and yet, when I jam something out within a band context, I dont sound like any of the people who's licks I've learnt in the past.

In relation to Theory... I've tried it, I simply cant focus long enough on it to get something useful from it. Bores the crap out of me.
What I cant figure out is... why do you put yourself through it? Unless you're aiming to make a living as a bassplayer, I dont see the point.

Reminds me of something a friend told me. "Everyone wants to be at the top, but they forget that happiness is on the way up."
Personally, I'd rather have fun on the way up, even if I dont make it as high as some of the others.

[The Funk]

[quote name='Aussiephoenix' post='470587' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:23 PM']In relation to Theory... [...]
What I cant figure out is... why do you put yourself through it? Unless you're aiming to make a living as a bassplayer, I dont see the point.
[...]
Personally, I'd rather have fun on the way up, even if I dont make it as high as some of the others.[/quote]

For some people, like me, theory is fun and not boring, as you find it.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Aussiephoenix' post='470587' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:23 PM']I dont know if I agree with the OP completely...In relation to Theory... I've tried it, I simply cant focus long enough on it to get something useful from it. Bores the crap out of me.
What I cant figure out is... why do you put yourself through it? Unless you're aiming to make a living as a bassplayer, I dont see the point.[/quote]

Because it's interesting and useful.

If you're having difficulty focusing on it, there's a good chance you're aiming too high to begin with. It may be that you need to work on more basic material first.

[Bobo_Grimmer]

[quote name='Aussiephoenix' post='470587' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:23 PM']I dont know if I agree with the OP completely...
Everyone is diferent, some deal with boring theory easily, others not really, some have a good ear, some dont.

With me, thats what got me playing, when a fine day, I found that I could pretty effortlessly "duplicate" the sounds I was hearing coming from the tapedeck on my dad's old guitar.
I didnt know what I was doing, but who cares? I was doing it!
When I got a bass, I obsessed with chillipeppers. I knew how to play all of BSSM and previous stuff. Every band that I came across since then, I've picked out a few riffs to learn...
I have no formal theory classes, and yet, when I jam something out within a band context, I dont sound like any of the people who's licks I've learnt in the past.

In relation to Theory... I've tried it, I simply cant focus long enough on it to get something useful from it. Bores the crap out of me.
What I cant figure out is... why do you put yourself through it? Unless you're aiming to make a living as a bassplayer, I dont see the point.

Reminds me of something a friend told me. "Everyone wants to be at the top, but they forget that happiness is on the way up."
Personally, I'd rather have fun on the way up, even if I dont make it as high as some of the others.[/quote]

+1 I'd love to get my teeth into some theory, and have tried, but i'm the same i can't stay with it. i just want to noodle.
Kind of make you feel a bit childish but i can't help it.

[quote name='dlloyd' post='470634' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:55 PM']Because it's interesting and useful.

If you're having difficulty focusing on it, there's a good chance you're aiming too high to begin with. It may be that you need to work on more basic material first.[/quote]

This is something that's been said before but what do you mean about aiming too high?
I've been playing bass for a few years and i'm trying again to look at the theory side of bass playing again and i've been reading through some of the lessons on [url="http://www.studybass.com/"]Study bass.com[/url]. Maybe i should try to find a local tutor?

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Bobo_Grimmer' post='470670' date='Apr 23 2009, 01:18 PM']This is something that's been said before but what do you mean about aiming too high?[/quote]

Music theory needs to be learned in a fairly structured way for you to get the most out of it. Some musicians get the idea that they need to learn, say, the modes, and hack away at it without having any real understanding of what they're learning and why it might be useful. Then they give up on it, because it's too much to learn in one go.

The LCM have a graded popular music theory syllabus that is fantastic. To understand the material in grade 8 would be a daunting task for a beginner, but if you progress through the grades you'll get there no problem.

For instance, for preliminary grade, you have to know what constitutes C major, A natural minor, G major and E natural minor scales, how to construct C, G, Am and Em triads, what a whole, half and quarter note is, and what their respective rests are and what 4/4 time is.

If you can build on that, it's easy to understand the extra material that's required for grade 1. And from there you can easily build to grade 2.

And eventually you'll be able to build on grade 7 material, such that you understand major, natural minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor, pentatonic major, pentatonic minor, blues, Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian, chromatic, whole tone, Phrygian major, Jazz melodic minor, Lydian dominant, Superlocrian and diminished scales in every key, extended and altered chords and their inversions, odd time signatures, syncopation, fairly advanced harmony, etc. etc.

And more to the point, you'll understand why you learned them.

[url="http://www.popularmusictheory.org/"]http://www.popularmusictheory.org/[/url]

Edited April 23, 2009 by dlloyd

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Aussiephoenix' post='470587' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:23 PM']In relation to Theory... I've tried it, I simply cant focus long enough on it to get something useful from it. Bores the crap out of me.
What I cant figure out is... why do you put yourself through it? Unless you're aiming to make a living as a bassplayer, I dont see the point.[/quote]

If you don't learn anything about music you're likely to get stuck playing the same stuff for your entire life. Theory staves off boredom.

[Golchen]

[quote name='cris the man' post='470556' date='Apr 23 2009, 11:57 AM']recently , i stumbled upon dream theaters concept album 'scenes from a memory pt2.'
quite frankly the most impressive album i've ever listened to besides 'space ritual' on vinyl.

I wouldn't say i'm learning it to impress people, more to impress myself?
Most people i come across haven't heard of Dream Theater, and if they have they often quote them as 'cheesy'.

I find that learning this will help me compose using advanced techniques also [/quote]


Dream Theater are my favourite band! Pretty hard to make out the bass though as it's always so low in the mix. I just noticed that you're from Luton which is where I live - someone didn't clone me when I wasn't looking did they????