Ampeg, schmampeg

[mildmanofrock]

I have an SVT 6 Pro and an SVT 410HLF. And I'm beginning to feel a bit foolish about it.

I did my research. But I suppose after 15 years absence from bass playing, I was fixated with all things Ampeg. So, I bought it. And, to my ears, it sounds alright. Now, fumbling through bass forums, I find the world has moved on. Ampeg seems to have slipped a good few rungs on the ladder of low-end. Now it's all Eden, EBS, and Aguilar.

What do you think? Does Ampeg suck bass balls compared to the rest? Will anyone leap to its defence? Is there a lone soul out there who's put an Ampeg up against an EBS and thought it trounced the Swedish upstart? Or should I admit my brand-loyal naivety, axe the Ampeg, and buy stuff beginning with 'E'?

Edited April 20, 2009 by mildmanofrock

[Josh]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='467979' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:50 PM']I have an SVT 6 Pro and an SVT 410HLF. And I'm beginning to feel a bit foolish about it.

I did my research. But I suppose after 15 years absence from bass playing, I was fixated with all things Ampeg. So, I bought it. And, to my ears, it sounds alright. Now, fumbling through bass forums, I find the world has moved on. Ampeg seems to have slipped a good few rungs on the ladder of low-end. Now it's all Eden, EBS, and Aguilar.

What do you think? Does Ampeg suck bass balls compared to the rest? Will anyone leap to its defence? Is there a lone soul out there who's put an Ampeg up against an EBS and thought it trounced the Swedish upstart? Or should I admit my brand-loyal naivety, axe the Ampeg, and buy stuff beginning with 'E'?[/quote]

As far as I'm aware Ampeg are still pretty much on top of the amp market.

I love each one I've tried, and to this day still would like to try a full SVT4 Pro head through an SVT 8x10.

[rslaing]

If you are happy with your sound (and that is really what is important) you don't have a problem. And changing your gear (in spite of what people hope and think) is not going to improve your ability! The other thing is that a lot of players think that their equipment doesn't sound like the players they listen to on their audio equipment and they go out and buy the gear their "idols" use.

Big mistake - most pro players don't use any amplification in the studio. They D.I. and the sound is adjusted after the notes have been struck by equipment not related to their "live" sound. So if your gear does the ob, and you like the sound, don't waste your money

[The Funk]

I've hated every Ampeg I've tried but I'd love to try a classic SVT or fliptop. I reckon they'd sound great for a particular sound.

[Musicman20]

I still think Ampeg produce great rock rigs. The 810E is an industry standard with larger bands.

I nearly got the CL head, but the Orange was prettier.

[4000]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='467979' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:50 PM']Is there a lone soul out there who's put an Ampeg up against an EBS and thought it trounced the Swedish upstart? Or should I admit my brand-loyal naivety, axe the Ampeg, and buy stuff beginning with 'E'?[/quote]

When I bought my Sei Melt I played it through an EBS rig (HD650 and 1x15?) in the Gallery and it sounded stunning, probably the best it has ever sounded. I also played it through an Ampeg Classic and 8x10. It didn't sound so good. Game over you say? No. I also had my Rick 4001CS with me. Through the EBS it didn't sound so good. Through the Ampeg? Great, and I've never been much of a fan of Ampeg. So I'd say it depends what you're putting into it and what tone you're after.

[lemmywinks]

I think Ampeg are still the nuts but most folk really don't wanna lug an 8x10 and a huge head around. My full stack days are long gone. Look on any big festival stage and there'll be an Ampeg on there somewhere, still the industry standard after all these years (for those with roadies anyways!)

[MacDaddy]

It's all personal opinion. I've had an Ampeg rig before (okay I had the porta bass rig) and it sounded great and did the job.

IMO my old PJB M500 out Ampeged any Ampeg head I'd ever heard, but to be fair I've never stood in front of a SVT and 810 blasting it out.

It's the iconic rock/metal bass thing, and if you get off on that I'd say money well spent.

[mildmanofrock]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I dunno - I think I've become obsessed with hunting the Holy Grail of the perfect bass sound. So, I've been scouring forums where lots of people are dissing Ampeg and raving about EBS.

Maybe you're right, it's a question of sound preference, style and taste. I'm more of a rock than funk/jazz man, so I think Ampeg might still be the one for me.

Edited April 21, 2009 by mildmanofrock

[coasterbass]

It is sooooo subjective, but for my twopeneth...

I had the SVT4 and 410HLF, and still gig with an SVP-Pro preamp straight to desk. I also used Eden, and have tried EBS/Mesa etc.

It soooo depends on what sound you want. For my ear the EBS is too hi-fi. The rigs I've heared and used have the sensitivity set really high and I find them a little 'hissy' in the extreme topend. That said I wouldn't deny that they can sound fantastic - particularly with highoutput super-J's like the Sei/GB/Overwater etc.
Looking at Ampeg in isolation I think they still have a fantastic tone for rock. The 410HLF is a great cab and there aren't any/many other 410s out there that go that low or handle that much power. It is a b**ch to move though!!
My opinion on the SVT heads is that maybe they've gone of the boil slightly... SVT, SVT2, and even the SVT4 to a degree - these were heads that appeared all over the place and are still stock hire/touring rigs. The more recent ones tend to get replaced a little too often for my liking, but that said I haven't used one so can't really comment.

At the end of the day its about finding an amp that matches and compliments the signal from your guitar and achieves the sound that you think is right. This forum is a nightmare for getting your GAS going - particularly with regard to boutique highend kit!!

[Dubs]

The best sounding rig I ever had was an all valve Ampeg - SVT-CL - amazing sound. I just couldn't handle the risk of hernia or serious back injury every time I tried to move the f***er

[alexclaber]

They're certainly still the dominant name in bass amps but that's probably because they've been around for about 80 years and were the first company to make a serious bass amp that could actually be heard over loud guitar amps (the SVT plus dual 8x10" rig). They do seem to be rather hit and miss with their products - I would never assume that because it's says Ampeg on it's going to be good - but conversely I would never ignore their amps, some of them are very good. Not sure what's going on with all the ownership issues and moves of production to various factories overseas, it's looked like they might go under entirely but the brandname is too valuable not to resurrect.

The 410HLF is a bit of a strange beast - it uses relatively similar woofers to those in Acme Low-B cabs, which gives it deeper bass response and greater excursion limited power handling but means it also needs more power to get loud. However unlike the Acmes which use a midrange driver to take over where these deep bass focused woofers give up, the 410HLF has rather a large gap in the upper midrange and low treble before the tweeter then kicks in. So although it does big bottom well it doesn't bring much midrange punch and character to the party. If you ever feel your rig is lacking in that department then that's the reason - don't blame the head!

One thing I do like about the big SVT heads (i.e. the 4, 6 and 8) is they have enough power to get every last dB out of my bigger cabs - few cabs can really handle their power (despite so many 4x10"s being thermally rated at 1000W+ they can't handle more than 1/3 of that in the lows) which I suspect is one reason they're not rated as highly as they deserve. Maybe that's why the touring pros continue enjoying them - they don't try to get a single 4x10" to do everything, they tend to use a dual 4x10" stack or more. That and because it's what's always provided free of charge!

Alex

[BigRedX]

Remember though every time you see an Ampeg rig on a large stage its contribution to the overall bass sound both on stage and FoH is pretty negligible. The bass will be DI'd at some point - maybe even before it reaches the amp and unless your stood directly in front of the speakers you'll be hearing more from the monitors than than the amp.

[Dubs]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='468180' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:22 AM']Remember though every time you see an Ampeg rig on a large stage its contribution to the overall bass sound both on stage and FoH is pretty negligible...[/quote]

…as well as the fact that it’s probably there due to an endorsement deal or sponsorship. Ampeg love supplying the backline for large festivals etc…

[joegarcia]

Yea, I've gotta say I've tried a fair few different Ampegs and have disliked all of them (for what I do) apart from the bigger ones with 810's. I don't like their little combo's, or their 4x10's or 6x10's. Have played through vintage SVT rigs a few times (and will again at a festival this week) and always love them despite generally disliking 10's. Still prefer the sound of the SVT through my Aguilar GS412's though.

Heard Bob Weston playing through an SVT2 and two Ampeg 15's with Shellac and that was lush too.

[Noisyjon]

I think if [i]you[/i] are happy with your sound then that's it, case closed, It doesn't matter what make and model your amp and cab is.

FWIW the best bass sound I ever heard was a Stingray stright into an Ampeg SVT2pro amp and Ampeg 8x10" cab. Simply stunning, but then there was roadies moving it about!

Cheers,
JTB

[AM1]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='467979' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:50 PM']I have an SVT 6 Pro and an SVT 410HLF. And I'm beginning to feel a bit foolish about it.

I did my research. But I suppose after 15 years absence from bass playing, I was fixated with all things Ampeg. So, I bought it. And, to my ears, it sounds alright. Now, fumbling through bass forums, I find the world has moved on. Ampeg seems to have slipped a good few rungs on the ladder of low-end. Now it's all Eden, EBS, and Aguilar.

What do you think? Does Ampeg suck bass balls compared to the rest? Will anyone leap to its defence? Is there a lone soul out there who's put an Ampeg up against an EBS and thought it trounced the Swedish upstart? Or should I admit my brand-loyal naivety, axe the Ampeg, and buy stuff beginning with 'E'?[/quote]

Hi

I love the Ampeg sound for bass and have done for years. It was the amp of choice for me when I started playing bass. That's not to say I did not see all the same opinions about other rigs, which made me decide to go and try loads of different amps and cabs with my bass to do a sound comparison. The Ampeg through an 8x10 was unquestionably the weapon of choice and blew all the others away.

You have to be careful about reading forums where people rave about EBS and Eden, etc. These are also good but it is subjective opinion and correlates to what style of music is being played. I did a side by side comparison on EBS, Genz Benz and Ampeg and in my view, with proper configuration, the Ampeg sound absolutely blew them out of the water. EBS sounded very "clean" and hi-fi which I have no doubt is an optimal sound for jazz/funk. But for rock/punk, you cannot beat Ampeg. I don't want a clean bass sound and Ampeg gives me the sound I want. It's that simple.

I also noted with the SVT head, you do have to put a bit of work into the configuration side. You can dial in different settings for different size of venues and different genres of music and the EQ lends some colour to the tonal palette.

Before buying the SVT, I noted the same as you, that the forums are full of people raving about other rigs. But the subjectivity factor means you can't rely on opinions on forums too much. Your own ears should be the most important factor in judging whether you are happy. If you are happy with your sound, that's the key point.

[joegarcia]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='468180' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:22 AM']Remember though every time you see an Ampeg rig on a large stage its contribution to the overall bass sound both on stage and FoH is pretty negligible. The bass will be DI'd at some point - maybe even before it reaches the amp and unless your stood directly in front of the speakers you'll be hearing more from the monitors than than the amp.[/quote]


Haha, that not the case when I use them at festivals.
I run them LOUD and have them mic'ed, we have our own engineer too who knows my sound well.

[AM1]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='468180' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:22 AM']Remember though every time you see an Ampeg rig on a large stage its contribution to the overall bass sound both on stage and FoH is pretty negligible. The bass will be DI'd at some point - maybe even before it reaches the amp and unless your stood directly in front of the speakers you'll be hearing more from the monitors than than the amp.[/quote]

I don't think such a sweeping generalisation is valid unless you have gone and asked the majority of Ampeg players on large stages what setup they use.

I have seen Ampeg rigs being used by a few well-known bands in fairly large venues and the sound is unmistakeable, even with a bit of colouration from the PA.

In fact, having communicated with a few bass players using these rigs for touring, the general consensus in the responses I received was that they avoid too much colouration from the desk and in fact one mentioned mic'ing the amp instead of DI'ing. I don't see the point of buying this kind of amp and then leaving it to the desk to colour the signal - that's the whole point of "post-eq" - to retain that lovely valve sound.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468005' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:16 AM']I've hated every Ampeg I've tried but I'd love to try a classic SVT or fliptop. I reckon they'd sound great for a particular sound.[/quote]

I've hated every Ampeg I've tried [i]except[/i] a B-15-like combo my mate's got, which is surprisingly ace-sounding.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='AM1' post='468212' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:46 AM']I have seen Ampeg rigs being used by a few well-known bands in fairly large venues and the sound is unmistakeable, even with a bit of colouration from the PA.[/quote]

I really don't buy that. Yes the all-valve SVT and sealed 8x10" cab has a distinct sound but the rest of their gear varies hugely. I would suggest that if you see a rock band who have a nice fat rock bass sound happening and there's an Ampeg rig there then you attribute that to the rig when you could get that same sound from so many other rigs. Just like the hordes of guitarists out there believing that you can only get 'that' tone from a Marshall stack cranked up to 11.

The power of marketing and subconsious self-persuasion...

Alex

[AM1]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468229' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:07 AM']I really don't buy that. Yes the all-valve SVT and sealed 8x10" cab has a distinct sound but the rest of their gear varies hugely. I would suggest that if you see a rock band who have a nice fat rock bass sound happening and there's an Ampeg rig there then you attribute that to the rig when you could get that same sound from so many other rigs. Just like the hordes of guitarists out there believing that you can only get 'that' tone from a Marshall stack cranked up to 11.

The power of marketing and subconsious self-persuasion...

Alex[/quote]

No Alex, the power of listening to it week in, week out for years!

In fact, at a gig a while ago, I heard that unmistakeable tone from the back, thundering out. Sure enough, when I finally got down the front, there was an SVT head!

So, what other rig do you think gives an identical Ampeg tone? This should be amusing.

Edited April 21, 2009 by AM1

[ben604]

I must admit that I've bought and sold far too much stuff over the last 2 years but the one stand out rig was my SVT-CL and 410HLF. It's the only thing that came close to the sound you hear on just about every rock album. Fat and warm or driven and dirty, it sounded amazing. Shame I had to sell it.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='AM1' post='468241' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:19 AM']So, what other rig do you think gives an identical Ampeg tone? This should be amusing. [/quote]

As I posted earlier, my old PJB rig could easily dial in a recognisable (and IMO better) Ampeg tone.

[chris_b]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='467979' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:50 PM']....I have an SVT 6 Pro and an SVT 410HLF. And I'm beginning to feel a bit foolish about it....[/quote]
You shouldn't be feeling bad about your gear. Do you like the sound? If you do then you have the best rig for you. You have a tube pre amp, very powerful power amp and, probably, a big fat Ampeg tone. You shouldn't need to change anything, certainly (IMO) not for EBS!!
I have used a great Ampeg amp for 10 years and, over that time, most of the cabs, but the cabs don't have enough definition for me. Several of our local music mafia use Ampeg and get a great sound. I'm jealous because Ampeg is much cheaper than what I now use, but it's just not [i]my[/i] sound.
In my experience the only down side to your rig is the weight but if that isn't a problem for you then you don't seem to have any other issues.