bremen Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='468229' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:07 AM']I really don't buy that. Yes the all-valve SVT and sealed 8x10" cab has a distinct sound but the rest of their gear varies hugely. I would suggest that if you see a rock band who have a nice fat rock bass sound happening and there's an Ampeg rig there then you attribute that to the rig when you could get that same sound from so many other rigs. Just like the hordes of guitarists out there believing that you can only get 'that' tone from a Marshall stack cranked up to 11. The power of marketing and subconsious self-persuasion... Alex[/quote] Bit like that 'unmistakeable Ric sound' that turns out to be a well-spanked Jazz :-) hurr hur, I said 'well-spanked jazz' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='468241' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:19 AM']So, what other rig do you think gives an identical Ampeg tone? This should be amusing. [/quote] I think if you know what you're doing you can get a similar tone out of countless different rigs. However most people don't know what they're doing. The concept of an exact Ampeg tone is farcical because there is so much variability from how you play the bass alone, even before you start looking at EQ and how hard different gain stages are being pushed. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='468253' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:25 AM']I think if you know what you're doing you can get a similar tone out of countless different rigs. However most people don't know what they're doing. The concept of an exact Ampeg tone is farcical because there is so much variability from how you play the bass alone, even before you start looking at EQ and how hard different gain stages are being pushed. Alex[/quote] Ampeg has always had a very distinctive tone for me. Let me give you an example. A friend recently sent me a sound clip with a bunch of different amp sounds all recorded with gaps in between and said what's your favourite there. I was able to pick out the exact clip on which an Ampeg was used. I'm deadly serious - when you hear the same sound regularly for a long time, it becomes very recognisable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='MacDaddy' post='468250' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:24 AM']As I posted earlier, my old PJB rig could easily dial in a recognisable (and IMO better) Ampeg tone.[/quote] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='468259' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:30 AM']I'm deadly serious - when you hear the same sound regularly for a long time, it becomes very recognisable.[/quote] And so speaks the voice of experience... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='468271' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:42 AM']And so speaks the voice of experience... Alex[/quote] Since you haven't the faintest idea about my musical background, you are just demonstrating that your contributions to the debate are founded on conjecture and not substantive facts. It is interesting that since you have failed to advance your argument, your new strategy is denigration of experience, without actually knowing what that experience may be. Just for context, bass is not my first instrument - and playing any instrument, week in, week out, for years in a studio, one can still hear the bass ampage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Every big gig Ampeg rig I've seen has had a Pod or some other pre-amp in front of it which is used for the FoH [quote name='AM1' post='468293' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:53 AM']Since you haven't the faintest idea about my musical background, you are just demonstrating that your contributions to the debate are founded on conjecture and not substantive facts.[/quote] I was going to bring this up the "music is crap" thread but it's moved on and you seem to have abandoned it anyway. The reason that we don't have the faintest idea of you musical background is because you don't give us any. There's nothing on your profile page and no links in your signature to anything you've played on. From my PoV that makes you musically invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Unfortunately you fail to grasp that any bass rig covers a wide range of tones and many of these spectrums overlap substantially. Anyone who is so certain that they can reliably identify a single BRAND is clearly deluded. Your lawyerese speak may make you feel better about making such blinkered claims, especially as having bought an amp with such a fine brandname one would want to be confident that no gear missing said logo could make such a wonderful magical sound but unfortunately there is more to amplification and bass tones than a name. Sorry. I understand that bass is not your first instrument and you have years of experience in music but maybe you should consider that those for whom it is and who have been playing substantially longer than yourself may actually know more about how to get a sound. Just a thought. Alex Edited April 21, 2009 by alexclaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Very entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='468305' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:04 PM']Every big gig Ampeg rig I've seen has had a Pod or some other pre-amp in front of it which is used for the FoH[/quote] But you did not qualify your original statement in this way. You made a sweeping generalisation. [quote name='BigRedX' post='468305' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:04 PM']I was going to bring this up the "music is crap" thread but it's moved on and you seem to have abandoned it anyway.[/quote] I'll come back to it when I get a chance. I didn't expect anywhere near the response that thread got and am way behind on it. [quote name='BigRedX' post='468305' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:04 PM']The reason that we don't have the faintest idea of you musical background is because you don't give us any. There's nothing on your profile page and no links in your signature to anything you've played on. From my PoV that makes you musically invisible.[/quote] Absolutely and that's my choice. I do not have to list my music credentials to have, or express an opinion. Equally, I do not judge the validity or credibility of other commentators posts based on what I perceive to be their musical "visibility". I did not realise that if one wished to comment on amplification that they should instantly provide their musical CV. That's an amusing concept. There's a lot to be said for quietly getting on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 The best 'ampeg' sound I've got was from a Pod, modelling a Hiwatt 200. Second best was an Ampeg SVP Pro with a solid state power amp (my current rig). Last time I played through a SVT and 8x10 I was disappointed. The guy whose rig it was got a fantastic sound though, definitely an Ampeg sound. Not sure what point I'm making [All: so what else is new?] except that it's all in the fingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='468311' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:08 PM'] Very entertaining.[/quote] Indeed! I would like to hear back from the OP as to his thoughts on internet subjectivity versus liking what you hear. Perhaps that is the really valuable aspect of the debate, not big semantic digressions into how it can't be possible to identify a certain tone! It can and it is. FACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 How long have you been playing, AM1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilmour Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) [quote name='AM1' post='468212' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:46 AM']I have seen Ampeg rigs being used by a few well-known bands in fairly large venues and the sound is unmistakeable, even with a bit of colouration from the PA.[/quote] [quote name='alexclaber' post='468229' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:07 AM']I really don't buy that. Yes the all-valve SVT and sealed 8x10" cab has a distinct sound but the rest of their gear varies hugely. I would suggest that if you see a rock band who have a nice fat rock bass sound happening and there's an Ampeg rig there then you attribute that to the rig when you could get that same sound from so many other rigs. Just like the hordes of guitarists out there believing that you can only get 'that' tone from a Marshall stack cranked up to 11. The power of marketing and subconsious self-persuasion... Alex[/quote] I'm inclined to agree with Alex on this. I do a lot of big gigs, and the supplied backline is nearly always an Ampeg (in fact the only exception I can remember is at the Jazz Cafe - An Ashdown ) The backline is always there for the stage monitoring and very rarely is that sound ever taken FOH, always a DI from the bass straight to the desk. IIRC once in the last 18 months have we Mic'd the cab, and the engineer said the sound wasn't usable as there wasn't enough clarity going to the PA. Occasionally the stage will act as a bass trap for the amps sound and throw out some low/sub frequency, but not enough to really influence the tone. Edited April 21, 2009 by gilmour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I've tried everything - different heads with the same cabs, different cabs with the same head, different cabs AND heads, pre-amps, fiddling with the EQ, roundwounds, flatwounds, halfwounds. I even tried switching to a pick. It's no use, I just can't bring my wife to orgasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='468309' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:06 PM']especially as having bought an amp with such a fine brandname one would want to be confident that no gear missing said logo could make such a wonderful magical sound but unfortunately there is more to amplification and bass tones than a name. Sorry.[/quote] I have no "brand" loyalty here. It's all about tone. If I tried a different amp tomorrow and liked the tone better for what I want to do, I'd ditch my existing amp. I tried a VAST array of other amps and cabs before making a final choice. For the sound that I like and wanted, none of them came close. If I could get the same tone from a no name amp churned out of a factory in China, I'd have bought it. It seems rather interesting that you appear to take issue over the fact that I am evangelising over my own ampage and how distinctive I find the tone. I love the sound, just as I have done for years, pure and simple. Not quite sure what the issue is here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='468327' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:18 PM']How long have you been playing, AM1?[/quote] All in? Over twenty years. But that shouldn't make my opinion any more or any less valid. Sound is subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildmanofrock Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Woah, chill folks! Didn't mean to set sparks flying! I think everyone's points are valid. To me, Ampeg has a very distinctive tone - now whether that's down to my brain moulding it to meet my expectations of the brand, I don't know. I just know that it's earthy, growly and trouser flapping. But I also concede that it might be tricky for sound engineers to control the frequencies flying all over. Then again, I have little to compare it to. The only examples of EBS or Eden that I've heard online are by funksters/jazzers slapping, popping and pastoriusing (if that's not a verb, it should be) the hell out of their basses. That's not my bag at all. I'm more into the Chris Squire/Geddy Lee thing - not so much the music, but their sound and style. Interesting thoughts people - I feel more comfortable with my choice now! Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='mildmanofrock' post='468351' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:29 PM']Woah, chill folks! Didn't mean to set sparks flying! I think everyone's points are valid. To me, Ampeg has a very distinctive tone - now whether that's down to my brain moulding it to meet my expectations of the brand, I don't know. I just know that it's earthy, growly and trouser flapping. But I also concede that it might be tricky for sound engineers to control the frequencies flying all over. Then again, I have little to compare it to. The only examples of EBS or Eden that I've heard online are by funksters/jazzers slapping, popping and pastoriusing (if that's not a verb, it should be) the hell out of their basses. That's not my bag at all. I'm more into the Chris Squire/Geddy Lee thing - not so much the music, but their sound and style. Interesting thoughts people - I feel more comfortable with my choice now! Cheers Steve[/quote] Glad you understand what I mean about the distinctive tone, I find the same. Sorry for the unintentional thread hi-jack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubs Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='468314' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:11 PM']There's a lot to be said for quietly getting on with it.[/quote] Then why don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='benwhiteuk' post='468358' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:33 PM']Then why don't you?[/quote] Ooof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildmanofrock Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Ouch - and so it goes on! No apology necessary AM - you make some good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I can't agree that Ampeg as a brand has a distinct sound. The classic SVT sound is distinctive and desirable for certain settings, as is the fliptop sound (although competely different to the classic SVT). I like the idea of trying one of the discontinued valve Ampeg preamps (either the SVP-CL or the SVP-Pro). The Ampeg heads with solid-state preamps don't sound anything like the classic SVT IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='468343' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:25 PM']If I could get the same tone from a no name amp churned out of a factory in China, I'd have bought it.[/quote] Aren't Ampegs made in China now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='468369' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:38 PM']Aren't Ampegs made in China now?[/quote] Racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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