Ampeg, schmampeg

[AM1]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='468365' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:35 PM']Ouch - and so it goes on![/quote]

Yeah! A few low-flying snipers, nothing that can't be deflected

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='468365' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:35 PM']No apology necessary AM - you make some good points.[/quote]

And therein lies the problem

When a young tadpole sneaks up out of nowhere and challenges the old Guard, they tend to get a bit restless.

[The Funk]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='468373' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:39 PM']Racist.[/quote]

What's xenophobic about fear of foreigners?

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468389' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:45 PM']What's xenophobic about fear of foreigners? [/quote]


True. I'm not racist, I just don't trust 'em.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='AM1' post='468314' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:11 PM']Absolutely and that's my choice. I do not have to list my music credentials to have, or express an opinion. Equally, I do not judge the validity or credibility of other commentators posts based on what I perceive to be their musical "visibility".[/quote]
But AM if you expect your comments to be given credibility by others on this forum then you *should* be clear about what your musical experience is - as any expert witness under cross examination might in a court room.

You of all people should understand how credibility is established!

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='AM1' post='468260' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:31 AM']HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! [/quote]


this will be you advancing your argument then?


[quote name='AM1' post='468293' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:53 AM']It is interesting that since you have failed to advance your argument, your new strategy is denigration of experience, without actually knowing what that experience may be.[/quote]

[AM1]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='468410' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:59 PM']But AM if you expect your comments to be given credibility by others on this forum then you *should* be clear about what your musical experience is - as any expert witness under cross examination might in a court room.[/quote]

We are discussing music on an internet forum, not in court! Musical experience is not necessarily relevant to perception of sound.

So, no, I see no need to publish music credentials in order to express an opinion about finding a certain tone to be distinctive, or indeed, really liking said tone.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='468410' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:59 PM']You of all people should understand how credibility is established![/quote]

Why? Another assumption there!

Sound is subjective.

Irrespective of music background, if different people listen to the same ampage, they will both hear different nuances and potentially have different opinions.

Subjectivity cannot be made into objectivity by the qualification of the listener's experience. There are plenty of musicians with cloth ears and there are plenty of non musicians with great, perceptive hearing.

The way that the human ear hears noise and even the ability to hear certain frequencies, are only a few of the variables that contribute to the subjectivity factor.

[AM1]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='468418' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:06 PM']this will be you advancing your argument then?[/quote]

That argument was over before it even started when you mentioned PJB as providing a better Ampeg sound.

Sometimes, the other guy has fallen before he even realises the battle has begun.

[The Funk]

[quote name='AM1' post='468431' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:11 PM']So, no, I see no need to publish music credentials in order to express an opinion about finding a certain tone to be distinctive, or indeed, really liking said tone.[/quote]

No need to back up what you say when saying that you really like a particular tone.

When you want to dismiss others' comments though it can be useful, if you are relying on your personal experience of a certain tone being distinctive, to let people know what your personal experience of that certain tone is, eg. 20 years playing alongside Ampeg and other brand-using bassists, 38 years as a gig-goer listening to Ampeg and other brand-using bassists, 5-years as an Ampeg/other brand-using bassist.

Otherwise it can look a bit silly/rude when a beginner tells people who make amps or who have engineered 1000 gigs or who have been playing for 35-odd years that they don't know what they're talking about because their experience counts for nothing against your experience.

[AM1]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468438' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:20 PM']Otherwise it can look a bit silly/rude when a beginner tells people who make amps or who have engineered 1000 gigs or who have been playing for 35-odd years that they don't know what they're talking about because their experience counts for nothing against your experience.[/quote]

Could you provide the examples of where those words were used by me on this thread?

Edited April 21, 2009 by AM1

[The Funk]

[quote name='AM1' post='468443' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:24 PM']Could you provide the examples of where those words were used by me, or anyone else on this thread?[/quote]

Why? I'm not trying to criticise you, I'm trying to explain why people don't always react well to some of your posts so that it can be avoided in the future.

[AM1]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468444' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:26 PM']Why?[/quote]

Because I'd like you to show me, where I questioned or commented on someone else's experience.

[quote name='The Funk' post='468444' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:26 PM']I'm not trying to criticise you, I'm trying to explain why people don't always react well to some of your posts so that it can be avoided in the future.[/quote]

That's very kind of you.

[EBS_freak]

Fight.

Feck off the 'Nampegs. You should all be on Classic 450s...

[Kiwi]

[quote name='AM1' post='468431' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:11 PM']Sound is subjective.[/quote]
The issue isn't about subjectivity. It's about not alienating yourself.

However I'm sure you will make your bed up as you wish to lie in it. Is it true that you've already been banned from another internet forum?

[mildmanofrock]

Yep - there's only one way to find out!

Actually, that Classic 450 looks quite nice.

Aw, sh*t.

[The Funk]

I'm not trying to do a character assassination with this post. You asked for examples. Here are three.

[u]One[/u]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='468180' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:22 AM']Remember though every time you see an Ampeg rig on a large stage its contribution to the overall bass sound both on stage and FoH is pretty negligible. The bass will be DI'd at some point - maybe even before it reaches the amp and unless your stood directly in front of the speakers you'll be hearing more from the monitors than than the amp.[/quote]

[quote name='AM1' post='468212' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:46 AM']I don't think such a sweeping generalisation is valid unless you have gone and asked the majority of Ampeg players on large stages what setup they use.[/quote]

From what I remember, BigRed's been pro or semi-pro for over 10 years. Here you've dismissed his experience as a sweeping generalisation.


[u]Two[/u]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468229' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:07 AM']I really don't buy that. Yes the all-valve SVT and sealed 8x10" cab has a distinct sound but the rest of their gear varies hugely. I would suggest that if you see a rock band who have a nice fat rock bass sound happening and there's an Ampeg rig there then you attribute that to the rig when you could get that same sound from so many other rigs. Just like the hordes of guitarists out there believing that you can only get 'that' tone from a Marshall stack cranked up to 11.

The power of marketing and subconsious self-persuasion...[/quote]

[quote name='AM1' post='468241' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:19 AM']No Alex, the power of listening to it week in, week out for years! [/quote]

Here you've dismissed the experience of someone who builds bass cabs professionally and has fronted his own band on vocals and bass for several years.


[u]Three[/u]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='468250' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:24 AM']As I posted earlier, my old PJB rig could easily dial in a recognisable (and IMO better) Ampeg tone.[/quote]

[quote name='AM1' post='468260' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:31 AM']HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! [/quote]

Here you've ridiculed the experience of someone who I think has been playing for a lot longer than most of us (20+ years?).

Edited April 21, 2009 by The Funk

[AM1]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='468454' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:35 PM']The issue isn't about subjectivity. It's about not alienating yourself.[/quote]

So, let me get this right.

I have stated that I find Ampeg tone distinctive and I love the sound.

I was then told that it could not be possible to recognise a certain tone, despite my providing specific examples of times when I have done so.

When it was impossible to rebut those examples, I was then challenged over my experience.

And you say [b]I [/b] should not alienate [b]myself?

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='468454' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:35 PM'][/b]However I'm sure you will make your bed up as you wish to lie in it. Is it true that you've already been banned from another internet forum?[/quote]

Yes, absolutely. That is what happens when you challenge those who place commercial sponsor agendas over safety and human lives.

[AM1]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468460' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:37 PM']I'm not trying to do a character assassination with this post. You asked for examples. Here are three.

[u]One[/u]

From what I remember, BigRed's been pro or semi-pro for over 10 years. Here you've dismissed his experience as a sweeping generalisation.[/quote]

He made a specific comment which was that EVERY time you see an Ampeg, it will be DI'd. That is nothing to do with anyone's experience, it is a black and white statement. So, I did not comment nor denigrate his experience. Experience simply did not come into it.

It is impossible to make a valid statement that every time you see something, it will be configured a certain way.

[quote name='The Funk' post='468460' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:37 PM'][u]Two[/u]
Here you've dismissed the experience of someone who builds bass cabs professionally and has fronted his own band on vocals and bass for several years.[/quote]

Where? Again, I did not comment on Alex's experience, I responded to a comment that suggested I was being swayed by marketing and further commented on my own experience of hearing a certain sound for a long time and pointed out that I find the tone distinctive and mentioned some instances in which I recognised Ampeg sounds. So, again, this is not a valid example of where I questioned or challenged someone's experience. Please try harder.


[quote name='The Funk' post='468460' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:37 PM'][u]Three[/u]
Here you've ridiculed the experience of someone who I think has been playing for a lot longer than most of us (20+ years?).[/quote]

The HAHAHAHAHA was about the PJB amp not the poster's experience.

[quote name='The Funk' post='468438' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:20 PM']Otherwise it can look a bit silly/rude when a beginner tells people who make amps or who have engineered 1000 gigs or who have been playing for 35-odd years that they don't know what they're talking about because their experience counts for nothing against your experience.[/quote]

You still haven't shown me where I made such comments.

It was my experience which was challenged, I did not even mention anyone else's experience.

Edited April 21, 2009 by AM1

[ped]

Sorry AM1 I thought you said you hadn't been playing for very long, so got confused. Not that having played for a long time makes ones opinions any more valid.

[The Funk]

[quote name='AM1' post='468476' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:49 PM']Please try harder.
[...]
You'll have to do better than this.[/quote]

No, I don't have to do anything. I tried explaining to you why some of your posts annoy some people. You don't agree with my explanation. End of.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='AM1' post='468467' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:43 PM']So, let me get this right.

I have stated that I find Ampeg tone distinctive and I love the sound.

I was then told that it could not be possible to recognise a certain tone, despite my providing specific examples of times when I have done so.

When it was impossible to rebut those examples, I was then challenged over my experience.

And you say [b]I [/b] should not alienate [b]myself?[/quote]
Are you suggesting that your opinions are more credible than the opinions of anyone else on the forum?


[quote name='AM1' post='468467' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:43 PM']Yes, absolutely. That is what happens when you challenge those who place commercial sponsor agendas over safety and human lives.[/quote]
I'm sure you felt what you did was right.

[AM1]

[quote name='ped' post='468483' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:52 PM']Sorry AM1 I thought you said you hadn't been playing for very long, so got confused. Not that having played for a long time makes ones opinions any more valid.[/quote]

Hiya Ped

Not very long on the bass, but bass is not my first or only instrument.

It's a good point though about length of playing versus validity of opinion.

Sound is a really subjective entity to me - maybe we should have a basschat oscilloscope session

Followed by beer!

Then tBBC and TheFunk can mud-wrestle, naked. I'll film.

Sounds good to me!

[The Funk]

[quote name='AM1' post='468502' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:03 PM']Then tBBC and TheFunk can mud-wrestle, naked. I'll film.[/quote]

There was a sequel to [i]2 Girls, 1 Cup[/i] made in the late '90s. We were both young, naive and desperate for cash.

[stevie]

[quote name='ped' post='468483' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:52 PM']Sorry AM1 I thought you said you hadn't been playing for very long, so got confused. Not that having played for a long time makes ones opinions any more valid.[/quote]
I agree it's irrelevant. People are entitled to their opinion if expressed sensibly. If you want to disagree, disagree. But there really is no need for some of the insults that have been flying about. If AM1 prefers to maintain some degree of anonymity, he's entitled to it without having to put up with being quizzed about his background.

What's with the lynch mob mentality today?

[The Funk]

[quote name='stevie' post='468511' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:08 PM']If AM1 prefers to maintain some degree of anonymity, he's entitled to it without having to put up with being quizzed about his background.[/quote]

She.

[EBS_freak]

Building cabs professionally doesn't necessarily make you an expert on the matter - just ask Behringer Nor does being a singer. Nor does being in a band. Experience can mean nothing also... so take it all with a pinch of salt. At the end of the day, your ears should tell you what you like. Everybody is big enough to make up their own minds on gear. Fcuk what anybody else thinks.

How many people who express an opinion on here actually have any working knowledge of what they are talking about? Very few it would seem.

Amps do have a character about them that can't be emulated by other amps. Make a Marshall TSL sound like a Fender Twin. Not a chance. Make an Ampeg sound like TD650... not going to happen. The circuits of these amps and the components that they are made of all contribute to the "personality" and tone of an amp.

Everybody chill a bit!

PS - I take it if Alex is building cabs professionally, he has done all the paperwork for running a business and HMRC know. It just seems a little... erm, risky selling your wares in such a public way.