Wireless IEMs: Xvive U4 & alternatives

[Greg Edwards69]

 

11 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

I really wish i could use my AirPod Pro’s as IEM’s. They have such a great transparency mode. I know i can, in theory, but the latency would mean its not a good idea. 

 

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

200ms+!

Is that the latency of the transparency mode? I was considering getting a set at some point and using them as digital earplugs. But if the latency is bad, then there's no point.

[BigRedX]

The problem is Bluetooth. It was never designed for delivery live audio in real-time, so the latency aspect wasn't considered. It doesn't matter how much the audio is delayed when you are listening to music from your phone, but of course it's vitally important when used as IEMs!

[Woodinblack]

 

1 hour ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

Is that the latency of the transparency mode? I was considering getting a set at some point and using them as digital earplugs. But if the latency is bad, then there's no point.

 

I don't think that latency is a design concern of headphones for use in listening to music - it doesn't really matter if the music comes at you 200ms later, if that is all you are listening to.

 

[dave_bass5]

7 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

 

I don't think that latency is a design concern of headphones for use in listening to music - it doesn't really matter if the music comes at you 200ms later, if that is all you are listening to.

 

Well it does if you are watching movies on them. Can’t say I’ve ever seen any lip sync issues doing this with mine. 
I do sometimes put them in at rehearsals just to use the ANC side of them, and this does work well. 

[Greg Edwards69]

10 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I don't think that latency is a design concern of headphones for use in listening to music - it doesn't really matter if the music comes at you 200ms later, if that is all you are listening to.

1 minute ago, dave_bass5 said:

Well it does if you are watching movies on them. Can’t say I’ve ever seen any lip sync issues doing this with mine. 
I do sometimes put them in at rehearsals just to use the ANC side of them, and this does work well. 

I realise latency is not an issue for listening to recorded music. Not an issue at all.  I'm specifically wondering about transparency mode, and if there's any latency with outside noises being processed by the Airpods and fed into your ear. I understand that you can dive into the accessibility settings and adjust the level of transparency too, which would be helpful.

[Woodinblack]

15 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Well it does if you are watching movies on them. Can’t say I’ve ever seen any lip sync issues doing this with mine.

 

Thats because the video is delayed to match the latency of the headphones

[dave_bass5]

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Thats because the video is delayed to match the latency of the headphones

Yep, I was just pointing out other uses. 

[dave_bass5]

19 minutes ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

I realise latency is not an issue for listening to recorded music. Not an issue at all.  I'm specifically wondering about transparency mode, and if there's any latency with outside noises being processed by the Airpods and fed into your ear. I understand that you can dive into the accessibility settings and adjust the level of transparency too, which would be helpful.

I just clapped with mine in. Didn’t notice any latency. 

[Phil Starr]

I have a pair of lovely Sennheiser open backs, a birthday present some years back that I use for home practice, like you I love the sound and the comfort but I think you need closed backs for rehearsal with a drummer. You need to take the sound level of the drums down at least 15db to be able to operate headphones at levels that won't damage your hearing. You can't do that with open backs, they need to be 'Studio Monitor' types. You'll also hear everyone else better at those sorts of levels and I find the drums come through on the vocal mics as well as a bit of leakage.

 

It's just easier to get a great sound and a good seal with over ears and it's kind of rock'n'roll as we've grown up with images of bands all wearing them in the studio. For our band it was the entry point for in-ears. You plonk them on someone's head, suddenly they can hear everything and want that experience on stage as well. Asking them to try my in-ears just sounds a bit yucky even if I did clean them

 

@Greg Edwards69You may have outed my GAS, I've always prided myself on one bass, one amp, one speaker (Ok 2 of each) but I may have a headphone fetish.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Phil Starr

[Greg Edwards69]

I think I'm getting my descriptive terms mixed up. If I'm understanding the definitions correctly, I think my Jabra Move's are actually closed back, on-ear. However, they still won't offer the isolation of over-ear headphones. I've had the Edifier H850 headphones on my wishlist for ages - they are basically the same product as the PJB headphones for less money. Maybe I'll pick up a pair soon.

 

Good shout on the drum/vocal mic bleed. That didn't occur to me, but it makes sense.

[BigRedX]

21 minutes ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

I've had the Edifier H850 headphones on my wishlist for ages - they are basically the same product as the PJB headphones for less money. Maybe I'll pick up a pair soon.

 

I had a pair of these. They fell apart after a couple of months normal (non-band) usage. The weak point is the swivel joint at the headband. Luckily I bought them  from Amazon who refunded me in full with no quibbles. I bought a pair of Sennheiser 599SEs instead. I've still got a pair of DT100s which I got very cheap second hand in the early 90s for band and recording use.

[Al Krow]

What proportion of pro bands are using IEM set ups these days?

 

Was at a Level 42 concert on Friday and thet were using an "old fashioned" stage monitor set up, so it got me thinking about this question. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Al Krow

[Adee]

Guess it depends what works for you, I can sing and pitch my backing vocals much much better with my IEM's

we have a totally silent stage with everyone using Helix, Pod Go or similar, drums are Roland electric, we do have a

sub and top at the rear so I get enough back from that, the FoH as well as my in ears to keep me happy

 

and still happy with my U4 also no clashes with my bass wireless

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

What proportion of pro bands are using IEM set ups these days?

 

Was at a Level 42 concert on Friday and thet were using an "old fashioned" stage monitor set up, so it got me thinking about this question. 

Pro bands under the age of 50 - most. Certainly on pop gigs, it's a given.

 

Level 42 are in the old school scene - although you'll see PRB on inears/overears (at least with his own band) and on L42 for backing tracks and click. Most MDed gigs will be on in ears for talk back too.

 

EDIT - just looking at L42 - theres a fair few of them on inears.

Edited November 8, 2022 by EBS_freak

[mike257]

On 08/11/2022 at 10:15, Al Krow said:

What proportion of pro bands are using IEM set ups these days?

 

Was at a Level 42 concert on Friday and thet were using an "old fashioned" stage monitor set up, so it got me thinking about this question. 

 

Monitor engineer here. I mix very few shows that are fully on wedges these days. Did a first show with a new client the other week who were on wedges and genuinely had a "how long is it since I've done this?" moment!

 

Of my regular touring clients, there's a handful where one or two members still use a wedge, but it's becoming the exception. It gives the FOH engineer more control as they're not fighting tons of stage noise, protects the ears of the artist from damage, means I can give them studio levels of clarity and separation in the mix (if that's what they want) and is a much more consistent experience from venue to venue than wedges will ever be. 

[EBS_freak]

What he said. ^

[Chienmortbb]

On 03/11/2022 at 12:39, Phil Starr said:

I have a pair of lovely Sennheiser open backs, a birthday present some years back that I use for home practice, like you I love the sound and the comfort but I think you need closed backs for rehearsal with a drummer. You need to take the sound level of the drums down at least 15db to be able to operate headphones at levels that won't damage your hearing. You can't do that with open backs, they need to be 'Studio Monitor' types. You'll also hear everyone else better at those sorts of levels and I find the drums come through on the vocal mics as well as a bit of leakage.

 

It's just easier to get a great sound and a good seal with over ears and it's kind of rock'n'roll as we've grown up with images of bands all wearing them in the studio. For our band it was the entry point for in-ears. You plonk them on someone's head, suddenly they can hear everything and want that experience on stage as well. Asking them to try my in-ears just sounds a bit yucky even if I did clean them

 

@Greg Edwards69You may have outed my GAS, I've always prided myself on one bass, one amp, one speaker (Ok 2 of each) but I may have a headphone fetish.

When I bought my closed back phones, I knew I wanted both wired and Bluetooth, Panasonic did a nice pair that did both so I am sorted. Like most good headphones they were not cheap, from memory about £110 even with my employee discount. I think they were £170 ish without. 
 

The only problem is the 3.5mm stereo Jack cable is too short! If only I knew someone that makes cables.😊

 

 

[Al Krow]

@EBS_freak came across these: 

ANLEON WIRELESS S3 - Wireless In-Ear Monitor System

 

Any good? Comparable on paper to the LD MEI 1000 G2 and potentially better than the Xvive U4?

Seem to be available from Aliexpress from some sellers for < £100, which seems amazingly good value.

Two frequency ranges seem to be available 518 to 554 Mhz and 626 to 662 Mhz - are either / both legal in the UK?

[Woodinblack]

Not really comparible with the U4 really, but more similar to the LD/Box etc IEMs. The u4s main thing is it doesn't need wiring up, powering etc

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

@EBS_freak came across these: 

ANLEON WIRELESS S3 - Wireless In-Ear Monitor System

 

Any good? Comparable on paper to the LD MEI 1000 G2 and potentially better than the Xvive U4?

Seem to be available from Aliexpress from some sellers for < £100, which seems amazingly good value.

Two frequency ranges seem to be available 518 to 554 Mhz and 626 to 662 Mhz - are either / both legal in the UK?

I wouldn't be going near it... I'd wager it's got a woeful compander on board for that kinda money. But... you know, for the money, it may be worth a punt...? It may be a hidden gem.

 

But... if you want to use on a free to use frequency range... or the shared mic license range, you'll need the 830.000 to 866.000 MHz range that they seem to manufacture for - and operate in 863-865 to remain legal (channel 70). You'll also be able to use 830-832 (as part of the 823-832 shared mic license range).

[EBS_freak]

@Al Krow I found this quite interesting. The audio sounds OKish. Doesn't sound particularly wide but seems reasonable enough. 31:20 seems to show it's not too shabby for bass.

Reading the comments in YT, it may be the case that it doesn't play that nice with other wireless... who knows? For less than a 100 quid, probably worth a punt.

 

 

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

@Al Krow I found this quite interesting. The audio sounds OKish. Doesn't sound particularly wide but seems reasonable enough. 31:20 seems to show it's not too shabby for bass.

Reading the comments in YT, it may be the case that it doesn't play that nice with other wireless... who knows? For less than a 100 quid, probably worth a punt.

 

Thanks - that's the review I'd come across also, which had sparked my interest. I'll put it back on my radar then 😊

I was particularly liking the ability to send two separate (effectively mono) signals to two separate belt packs from one transmitter see 18.00+ - but I'm guessing that's not particularly unusual (and something we can also do on the LD MEI 1000 G2)? Not sure that is something the Xvive U4 is going to permit, but I'd need to check.

The price ranges on these from Aliexpress is huge - the 830-866MHZ is on at £182 and the 626‑662MHz at just £94.  But I think from what you're saying we'd need to go for the 830-866 Mhz option at which point there's not going to be too much in it between that and the LD MEI 1000 G2 set up - and would it be fair to assume the LD is the significantly better quality piece of kit?

[EBS_freak]

Looks like the noise floor could be quite high (but that's not an issue once you are playing).

 

Focus mode is not unusual on a stereo system... in fact, it should be kind of a given. Although I do think it's rarely used in practice, especially now that we are into the realms of remote controlled digital desks. U4 is mono, so it's never going to have that kind of functionality. U4 is defo going to sound better from the get go.

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying the LD is better... the LD has never floated my boat... again, compander.

 

Unless you want stereo, I'd go for the U4... although, as stated in the other thread, the system that I think is currently where it's at is the MiPro - although I do appreciate that's quite some price hike. But if you are using it as a rig/monitor replacement... it kinda makes sense.

[Al Krow]

Yeah agreed. I think the compact form & ease of use of the Xvive U4s has a lot to recommend and would be a great way for the band to dip their toes into a wireless IEM set up. If they like it and if we've managed to break into the higher end function-band work we're looking to target in 2023 then I'm sure it will be an easier conversation with them about upgrading our sound and light system in 12 months' time.

 

Thanks, as ever, for all your help and support buddy and to the other contributors on this thread, much appreciated!  

[Woodinblack]

30 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Not sure that is something the Xvive U4 is going to permit, but I'd need to check.

 

Nope, it wont. I suppose you could with 2 separate U4s and a headphone amp, but not exactly slick!