When provenance is not enough (in my view)

[Sibob]

Yeah, horrendously overpriced.

Great player, great basses in their original form.....but this has been mistreated and so isn't even what I'd call 'player-grade' at this point.

You'd probably want to spend a couple of grand stripping it all back completely and refinishing it to period correct.....which is fine....but the price does not reflect that work whatsoever!

 

They're relying on a jazz aficionado weekend warrior who has made their money elsewhere in the world.......and that is a niche crowd indeed.

 

Si

[Guest]

Still, better chipped treacle than three colour sunburst, in any condition.

[Chris2112]

Let's be frank, it looks like a heap of shite. The craze for vintage gear has resulted in even total nails like this dungheap being advertised with a stupid price. The most boring old crap advertised with fairytale prices. 

[Guest]

Has anyone played it yet?

[skidder652003]

8 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said:

Has anyone played it yet?

yep, they're currently in A & E

[David Richards]

If that is worth 9k because of provenance, my Warwick Thumb (immaculate condition and quite  a "few years old") must be worth at least 4k. Don't  imagine there will be a rush of offers though for either guitar. 

 

[SteveXFR]

I didn't know who he is so googled him. In a Google image search, there aren't any pictures of him playing a black jazz bass. He may have owned it but was it something he used as a shelf in the shed and didn't actually play? 

[Barking Spiders]

9 grand is very steep even if the bass was some classic boutique number of top condition. No disrespect meant to the guy but as most of us replying hear have never heard of him, I can't see that the provenance has any intrinsic value.

[Doctor J]

Is it worth £9000 as an instrument? Of course not. Is it worth the money as an antique? Of course not. Is it worth the money due to the celebrity connection? Of course not. When you combine all these things is it worth the money? Of course not.

 

However, we live in the age where the very worst 70's and early 80's Fenders sell, utterly amazingly, for two grand and above. Old Squiers fetch one and a half grand. Amazing.
 

However, all it takes is one poor soul to believe in it and have the cash in their pocket (or the credit on their card) and there is great profit to be had. These are heady times for opportunists. Make hay, etc. The next old POS will be listed at 10k 🙂

[SteveXFR]

People do pay crazy money for old crap. Just look at the value of Austin Allegro's, up to £10k for a really tidy one and they were terrible cars.

[Doctor J]

A genuinely terrible vehicle by any benchmark.

[Crusoe]

20 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

Is it worth £9000 as an instrument? Of course not. Is it worth the money as an antique? Of course not. Is it worth the money due to the celebrity connection? Of course not. When you combine all these things is it worth the money? Of course not.

 

However, we live in the age where the very worst 70's and early 80's Fenders sell, utterly amazingly, for two grand and above. Old Squiers fetch one and a half grand. Amazing.
 

However, all it takes is one poor soul to believe in it and have the cash in their pocket (or the credit on their card) and there is great profit to be had. These are heady times for opportunists. Make hay, etc. The next old POS will be listed at 10k 🙂

I remember when I started playing bass at first, CBS era Fenders were generally regarded as a bit crap. I'm sure there some decent ones, but from what I read QC wasn't great. Nowadays, any old 70s Fender is almost revered like the Holy Grail and commands a fortune.

[Owen]

1 minute ago, Crusoe said:

I remember when I started playing bass at first, CBS era Fenders were generally regarded as a bit crap. I'm sure there some decent ones, but from what I read QC wasn't great. Nowadays, any old 70s Fender is almost revered like the Holy Grail and commands a fortune.

I am old enough to scoff at any thought that anything after 1965 is vintage. But I suppose vintage moves with the times and is defined by stuff that you wanted when you were in your teens but is now affordable when you have a job with disposable income.

 

Is my 66 Jazz better than aything else I own? No.

Will I be discussing that side of things when I come to sell it? Not a chance.

[miles'tone]

46 minutes ago, Owen said:

I am old enough to scoff at any thought that anything after 1965 is vintage. But I suppose vintage moves with the times and is defined by stuff that you wanted when you were in your teens but is now affordable when you have a job with disposable income.

 

Is my 66 Jazz better than aything else I own? No.

Will I be discussing that side of things when I come to sell it? Not a chance.

My 65 P is the best Precision I've ever played. I wouldn't sell it for any money.

 

(Soon to be seen on a market place near you 😄)

 

I kid. This one's not going anywhere. 

[yorks5stringer]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

People do pay crazy money for old crap. Just look at the value of Austin Allegro's, up to £10k for a really tidy one and they were terrible cars.

Yes, but the early ones did have the Quartic steering wheel....

[Hutton]

I have been around for a while (65 years) and so am old enough to remember instruments back through the decades. It frankly amazes me what some folk will pay for an old bass these days. Even if you are a collector this example of a jazz before us is just not worth any money. If the player was someone rather famous then perhaps one of their basses would command a price higher than market value. However, have you ever seen a bass in as dreadful a condition as this being put up for sale for this kind of money. I'm afraid Mr. Richardson is not a big enough name to add on a ridiculous amount. Plus, he never looked after the instrument. By caring for your instrument it will still look reasonably fine with a bit of wear here and there. I think of the ES175 guitar owned by Steve Howe of YES. That guitar has seen many thousands of hours of gigging, rehearsing and practice but it still looks good because the man looked after it. I weep for the guitar/bass market if anyone is stupid enough to spend 9K on this Jazz.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Hutton

[Cato]

I'd guess most of the price tag comes from it being, depending on the precise date of manufacture, either 1st or 2nd year of Jazz Bass production.

 

Would I spend 9k on it? Definitely not. But then I'm not a collector and the only basses I've ever seen that I have any interest in around that price point are Alembics,

 

But I bet there's a collector somewhere who'll make an offer , maybe not 9k, just because underneath the cosmetic tradgedy it's still  a very early Jazz bass.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Cato

[Lord Sausage]

Are you telling me I've been ripped off?!?!?!?!!

[Rich]

Absolute POS. 9 grand? 9 quid.

[40hz]

I've had another look. Missed the non-original electronics and missing decals. Even if you stripped this back and completely refurbished and refinished it to an expert standard. you'd genuinely struggle to hit 2-3k. This is utterly pie in the sky pricing.

[Belka]

9 minutes ago, 40hz said:

I've had another look. Missed the non-original electronics and missing decals. Even if you stripped this back and completely refurbished and refinished it to an expert standard. you'd genuinely struggle to hit 2-3k. This is utterly pie in the sky pricing.

The tuners and the bridge are also non-original. They're Fender, but they've come off a CBS bass, not a 1961.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Belka

[Bassybert]

I don't care if it was Jaco or Jameson themselves that played it, no bass is even remotely worth £9k. You can harp on all day about 'it is if that's what people are prepared to pay for it' but it's just insanity paying £££'s for some old wood, paint and metal.

 

Even more so if seem like it's fallen in a barrel of toxic sludge along the way 😄

Edited November 8, 2022 by Bassybert

[Bolo]

4 minutes ago, Bassybert said:

it's just insanity paying £££'s for some old wood, paint and metal

Still that's all a Stradivarius is, or an original Mercedes gull-wing. There isn't even any metal in a Rembrandt, van Gogh or Picasso but even a manky one would fetch quite a price.

I'm not calling this random bass 'art' but value is rarely dictated by the materials something is built out of.

[Doctor J]

There is a teeny tiny difference between a Stradivarius and a Fender, even one where Leo grew the tree himself using only Holy Water.

[Ralf1e]

On 07/11/2022 at 13:11, lemmywinks said:

The provenance thing only really works (with the odd exception) for electric guitars and basses played on popular songs or that featured on prominent photographs/videos. Even then unless there's some sort of artist star factor you're not looking at much more.

 

This one would be worth more stripped and stained than in its current state.

I was thinking similar thoughts. I would strip it to bare wood oiled finish. But then I wouldn't give hardly any money for it. It doesn't become a better instrument no matter who played it.