Ibanez SR Basses: Misplaced bridge common issue?

[SR-Love]

Hello,

 

does any Ibanez SR bass owner here got intonation issues that come from a misplaced bridge?

 

A bridge with factory set saddles which were shifted almost completely towards the pickups in order to achieve correct intonation with the factory strings? Resulting in intonation issues if only little heavier string gauges are installed. Because there's no room to place the saddles further towards the pickups?

I got an Ibanez SR Prestige SRMS-WK multiscale bass that has this issue. The issue can already be seen on the product image on its Ibanez site:
SRMS5 | SR | ELECTRIC BASSES | PRODUCTS | Ibanez guitars

After switching to a little heavier string set with a B-string with 0.136" gauge instead of the D'Addario 0.130" factory B-string, I wasn't able to adjust its intonation correctly, because the tone on the 12th fret is still 11 cents too low, with its saddle shifted maximal towards the pickups (see images below).

An Ibanez SR 1345 owner showed me the same issue he got with a D'Addario EXL-165-5 string set with 45-65-85-105-135 gauges (see image below).

To my understanding, this is the result of a misplaced bridge. Because it makes no sense to place a bridge in such a way, that its saddles are almost at the end of their adjustment range using standard factory strings.

 

Is this too far back placed bridge only found on a few Ibanez SR basses, or is it more a general Ibanez SR bass issue?

 

How did you solve this issue? Did you contact Ibanez or your dealer? Which solution did they offer?

Edited November 13, 2022 by SR-Love

[2pods]

New one on me.

 

I've had (and still own 4) a good few Ibanez SRs over the years from Prestige down to SR600Es, though I only have two with that kind of bridge.

My Premium 5 string SR1305 came used with 45 - 135 strings on it, and was intonated well, though I've since gone down to the 130 B again.

 

Not sure who distributes Ibanez in the UK. Did it used to be Headway ?

Someone on here will know, and should be along shortly.

[jonno1981]

Headstock distribution. I’d be disappointed with this on a premium model. 

[Guest]

I’ve had the same exact issue on two basses - an SR3006E from the early 2000s and an SR5006 from just over 10 years ago. I thought it was something stupid I was doing, like the string not having the correct beak angle, or a twist, and checked a few times but there wasn’t enough room. Both basses had monorail bridge units, and although a different design, neither had much adjustment range. I’ve never encountered it on any other basses I’ve owned.

[sandraupata]

from my perception , I think its because the type of compatibily monorail really fit with only 130 gauge strings, because when factory set they using default measurement using 130 , so that's why if you using 136 they can't get a accurate tone and if i see you using fanned fret cools. im using ibanez SR and all my gauge is 130 , maybe if in your country they have luthier you should take your bass and doing a tweaking your string with the monorail buddy , dont forget the action , the intonation and playbility its must by your comfortable .

thanks

sandraupa

 

[BigRedX]

It might be a misplaced bridge or it could be a duff set of strings (more common than you would like to think).

 

Measure the distance from the nut (or zero fret if your bass has one) to the 12th fret. Double this measurement and measure from the nut (or zero fret) and see where the bridge is in relation. Ideally the furthest forward movement of the saddles should be just shorter than this length. If the bridge is too far back then its in the wrong place. If the bridge is in the right place but you still need to move the saddles further forward to get the intonation at the 12th fret correct then there is something wrong with your strings and you should try another set.

 

The intonation setting is to compensate for the fact that you bend the string (and consequently sharpen the pitch) when you fret it. Therefore the saddles should always be further back than the scale length measurement, never closer. Also the heavier the string the further back the saddle should be, so normally the problem with fitting heavier gauge strings is that you can't move the saddle far enough back, not far enough forward.

 

If the bridge is in the wrong place and this is a new bass, don't waste your time trying to get it fixed. Take (or send) it back to the shop you bought from for a properly made replacement or refund.

[Paulhauser]

10 hours ago, FDC484950 said:

I’ve had the same exact issue on two basses - an SR3006E from the early 2000s and an SR5006 from just over 10 years ago. I thought it was something stupid I was doing, like the string not having the correct beak angle, or a twist, and checked a few times but there wasn’t enough room. Both basses had monorail bridge units, and although a different design, neither had much adjustment range. I’ve never encountered it on any other basses I’ve owned.

This is strange as I own the exact same two basses, the 3006E for a good 14 years and the 5006 for 8 years and never had this issue at all. 
Just to be sure I've just checked both of them and the intonation is spot on on the B with a usable measure of range left to the neck-end of the monorails. - on both models.

I use .130 and a very very low action so the string hasn't have to travel a lot to reach the frets so the pitch does not alter significantly between the harmonic over the 12th fret and the actual fretted note at the 12th.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Paulhauser said:

This is strange as I own the exact same two basses, the 3006E for a good 14 years and the 5006 for 8 years and never had this issue at all. 
Just to be sure I've just checked both of them and the intonation is spot on on the B with a usable measure of range left to the neck-end of the monorails. - on both models.

I use .130 and a very very low action so the string hasn't have to travel a lot to reach the frets so the pitch does not alter significantly between the harmonic over the 12th fret and the actual fretted note at the 12th.  

…and they were a problem on both of my basses, suggesting the bridge units were misplaced. Remember that your experience may be different from others.

[Paulhauser]

2 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

…and they were a problem on both of my basses, suggesting the bridge units were misplaced. Remember that your experience may be different from others.

I didn't mean to discredit your experience, it's just I might have ended up lucky..... which is bizarre, it shouldn't be an issue at all given the price level of these basses. 

[Guest]

I agree - I would expect these to have been CNC routed so therefore identical in every bass. Perhaps the neck was a touch longer, maybe it was a batch of out of tolerance basses due to a faulty template. I remember trying both tapered and full core strings, checked both the strings and the break angle were OK. In my case however it was a limit of backward movement on the low B - IIRC, where the monorail units are placed there’s more forward than backward adjustment available. It’s odd at it’s not really something I’ve ever noticed on the hundreds of 5 and 6 strings I’ve previously owned and played - maybe a Fender 5 string through the bridge comes close as there’s less range available, but nothing else.

[Paulhauser]

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

I agree - I would expect these to have been CNC routed so therefore identical in every bass. 

While on the subject I did have one issue with the bridge, or rather one of the monorails: I could not lower the C string enough for the desired action.

I do favour a low action especially on the SR5006 which I use exclusively for fingerstyle and tapping/sweeping but it is not THAT low.

I had to make my luthier route out a bit of wood so the monorail could be sunk in deeper. It is fine now but left me wondering....

(In all fairness the same thing occured when I got my Warwick Masterbuilt Thumb 6NT and on the C string the lower terminus of the adjusment range was still well over the frets so again, couldn't go lower)

[2pods]

15 hours ago, jonno1981 said:

Headstock distribution. I’d be disappointed with this on a premium model. 

I knew it, but it's a long time since I worked in music retail.

Thanks for the correct answer

[fretmeister]

Don't the saddles usually have to be moved backwards for a larger gauge? Not forward?

[Grimalkin]

String gauge makes quite a difference. I use a lighter .40 on the G set compared to the factory fitted which are usually .45. The softer tension from the lighter set means I have to move the saddles forward to intonate it.

 

It would be unusual IME to receive a completely duff set of strings, usually I've found it's just one string in the set that is suspect.

[BigRedX]

26 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Don't the saddles usually have to be moved backwards for a larger gauge? Not forward?

 

Yes, yes they do.

[Woodinblack]

I am currently down to 3 ibanez srs, 1 premium and 2 prestiges (1605, 1000efm, 5005), all of which have monorails, and none of which have this issue. I did have another premium (2605) withh monorails that didn't have this either.

So certainly not all.

[Grimalkin]

Never been a fan of the monorail bridges, I remember playing a Yamaha TRB5 P with piezo monorails, if you played it a little hard, the bridge started clacking around. Plus the lack of intonation adjustment space for different gauges.

[Doctor J]

Former 3006E owner here who never had this issue, too.

 

I wonder how close the pickups are to the strings, on the basses having this issue. Could magnetic pull be causing an erroneous string vibration? I experienced this many years ago.

[Paulhauser]

31 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

Former 3006E owner here who never had this issue, too.

IIRC I have your old 3006E (with wooden Bassculture pickups) but could be wrong. (sold in/around 2008? )

Edited November 14, 2022 by Paulhauser
pickup details

[SR-Love]

Thanks to all for contributing your intonation experience with Ibanez SR basses with mono-rails!

 

Before I reply to individual posts, I would like to add that I bought a second Ibanez SR Bass, this time an 4-string SR5000. And you won't believe it - the bass has the same problem getting the intonation of the lowest string right.

 

This happens with my favorite strings, a set of Thomastik JF344 with 0.100" gauge of the E-string, which is quite a normal gauge for an E-string. With the intonation screw fully screwed out, which shifts the saddle all the way forwards to the pickups, the tone on the 12th fret is still flat.

 

Because there is still minimal space of about 1.5 mm at the end of the track, the saddle is sliding on, when the intonation screw is fully screwed out, I decided to buy and try a longer intonation screw, which is 35 mm long instead of 30 mm screw the bass came with. And with this longer screw with the saddles at the very end of the track, I was able to get just the right intonation adjustment for the E-string (see picture below).

 

What sense do mono-rails have installed that much backwards?? That it saddles have to be shifted as far forwards as possible to get correct intonation. Which limits the adjustment for different string gauges and action height enormously and even hinders the correct intonation adjustment for some setups and strings?

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by SR-Love
light of pictures too low

[Woodinblack]

I am guessing this is quite a new SR5000, as I have a 5005 and the monorails on it are very different to this - these seem a lot closer to my more modern 2605, or the EHB1505

[PaulThePlug]

I'd drop a line to Ibby @ Headstock distribution...

It would be tempting to move each saddle block 5mm forward!

Not a fan of the Mono rail look, underdstand for a 5 for Fan Fret...

But on a std 4 nothing to be gained, if not bang on with gaps can look odd...

 

Would a std 4 bridge, in the right place cover all the holes, although the SR bridges are usually sunk in to the body.

[SR-Love]

@Woodinblack

 

According to the serial number, the Ibanez SR5000-OL bass was produced in year 2016.

 

The mono-rails of my Ibanez multiscale bass SRMS5 which was first build in year 2021 have an additional screw to adjust the string spacing, which my SR5000-OL bass hasn't. So the mono-rails of my SR5000-OL are an older model.

Edited December 5, 2022 by SR-Love

[SR-Love]

6 hours ago, PaulThePlug said:

I'd drop a line to Ibby @ Headstock distribution...

It would be tempting to move each saddle block 5mm forward!

Not a fan of the Mono rail look, underdstand for a 5 for Fan Fret...

But on a std 4 nothing to be gained, if not bang on with gaps can look odd...

 

Would a std 4 bridge, in the right place cover all the holes, although the SR bridges are usually sunk in to the body.

 

I'm living in Germany. For my SRMS5 bass, I already contacted the German Ibanez distributor. They said the bass lost its warranty because it was bought in Japan. But they send me a freeway ticket to let their quality control check the bass and want to try if they can help me anyway. Looking forward to the result.

 

Replacing the mono-rails for about 0.5 mm towards the pickups wouldn't be an easy task, because they are sunk into the body. So the routings for the mono-rails have to be enlarged towards the pickups first, leaving open holes behind. A good luthier might be able to do the job with a satisfying outcome. But it will probably be expensive because of the considerable amount of work involved.

Edited December 5, 2022 by SR-Love

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, SR-Love said:

The mono-rails of my Ibanez multiscale bass SRMS5 which was first build in year 2021 has an additional screw to adjust the string spacing which my SR5000-OL bass hasn't. So the mono-rails of my SR5000-OL are an older model.

 

Yes, so the SR5000 has the Monorail V, which was the last one before the strrng spacing (which I assume is the monorail VI). that is the same as my 2065 had, which was a 2020 model

My SR5005 is a much older model, so has a Monorail III, and my 1605 was a monorail IV - both of which have a domed head at the end.

Obviously this doesn't affect your issue, I assume the positioning is the same so I assume with your strings it would still have the same intonation issues that you get.