Band Amp Tone

[BassAdder60]

Since I’ve been on my bass amp journey to find my ideal band sound I’ve really discovered the major difference between the isolated bass sound compared to the playing with band sound. 
At rehearsals last night I found that having a far brighter tone ( pick playing ) really made the notes stand out in the mix which was good as I like to be heard !! 
As a guitar, drum, bass, vocals band playing rock it’s crucial I don’t disappear into the background ( buried by the drums ) 

The CTM100 valve amp is definitely making a difference in the sound, a lovely tone for sure and just enough snarl to make it fit.

I can now really see why certain genres the picked PBass with a valve amp is the perfect fit. 
 

[Mykesbass]

Not just the drums that will bury you, but the bottom end of the guitar will fill your sonic space. 

 

The other big difference is how bass sounds out in the audience compared to how it sounds on stage. Don't get too worried if it doesn't sound great when you stand next to the cab, it's what the punters hear that really counts.

[Dan Dare]

39 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Don't get too worried if it doesn't sound great when you stand next to the cab, it's what the punters hear that really counts.

 

This. That fat, smooth, juicy sound we like in isolation is often completely wrong when playing live. I like to check, either using wireless or a long lead, by going for a wander out front to listen how the bass sounds in the mix. Often, I find I need to thin the low end to remove the mud and boost the mids and top to make it sit right. The resultant sound can be none too pleasant when I'm stood next to the rig, but if it's what works in the room, I'll put up with it.

[TrypF]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

This. That fat, smooth, juicy sound we like in isolation is often completely wrong when playing live. I like to check, either using wireless or a long lead, by going for a wander out front to listen how the bass sounds in the mix. Often, I find I need to thin the low end to remove the mud and boost the mids and top to make it sit right. The resultant sound can be none too pleasant when I'm stood next to the rig, but if it's what works in the room, I'll put up with it.

Absolutely. My long lead has really helped out in the past - I have also been the 'responsible adult' for the other band members' sound. Curiously, I've played in two bands where the lead guitarist has to be told to turn UP.

[BigRedX]

There are no hard and fast rules about what bass sounds will work with any given band. It will depend very much on the line-up of the band and the arrangement of the songs. Generally the mids are your friend if you want to be heard among the other instruments, but even that isn't 100% true. I used to play in a band where my usual driving pick attack bass sound disappeared almost completely the moment one of the guitarists switched to a clean Stratocaster. Use your ears listen to what the other band members are doing both in terms of note choices and sounds and adjust your sound and note choices accordingly.

[Beer of the Bass]

Yep, I also find that a bit of extra midrange bark really helps it to come through clearly without being overwhelming. My Ampeg PF-50T seems to get there particularly easily compared to my GK MB200 with the same speakers, which I presume is a combination of extra harmonics from slight dirt, and the broad-brush nature of the EQ on that amp making it easier to boost without harshness.

[Lozz196]

I’m pretty much the same, get a thinner, twangier on stage sound than I’d like and it usually translates to a sound which out front sits in with the band nicely.

[ezbass]

I remember when I first bought my old Schroeder 1212L cab to go with my LMll and how disappointed I was with the sound at home, very middy and harsh. At the next band rehearsal it all made sense. My current PJB rig has much the same mid focussed sound, but without the harshness (I can add that to taste via pedals if required).

[Boodang]

For a change I'm currently playing drums in a cover band, usual mix of pop rock stuff. Our regular bass player has a great finger, solo tone, but live we're boosting the high mids to make it cut thru. Our stand in bassist mainly plays pick and the tone cuts thru with no eq adjustments. 

Interesting is the case of Steve Swallow who not only swapped double bass for electric but played with a copper pick in order to cut thru and be heard. 

[BassAdder60]

Yep I’m finding in our rock band ( mostly overdriven guitar ) that a pick played PBass has the right tone 

Fresh roundwounds help too 

 

I love finger style tone for the mellow stuff but it gets lost in the band in most songs unless I bring out the pick 

[NHM]

8 hours ago, BassAdder60 said:

At rehearsals last night I found that having a far brighter tone ( pick playing ) really made the notes stand out in the mix which was good as I like to be heard !! 

 

I've been having the 'pick or fingers' dilemma for a long time when searching for a great playing tone. I prefer to play (most songs) using my fingers (more subtlety, ghost notes, softer attack, faster across the fretboard etc.), but the band (guitar/bass/drums/vox blues-rock) prefer it when I play with a pick. I convince myself that fingers create a better sound until I hear a live recording... It's frustrating as I don't enjoy playing with a pick as much as with fingers, and at a recent gig I dropped my pick mid-song and got into a bit of a paddy, further confirming in my mind that fingers are best.

[BassAdder60]

3 minutes ago, NHM said:

I've been having the 'pick or fingers' dilemma for a long time when searching for a great playing tone. I prefer to play (most songs) using my fingers (more subtlety, ghost notes, softer attack, faster across the fretboard etc.), but the band (guitar/bass/drums/vox blues-rock) prefer it when I play with a pick. I convince myself that fingers create a better sound until I hear a live recording... It's frustrating as I don't enjoy playing with a pick as much as with fingers, and at a recent gig I dropped my pick mid-song and got into a bit of a paddy, further confirming in my mind that fingers are best.

I think it feels odd at first using a pick after using fingers. However it soon becomes natural and you don’t drop the pick. Use a triangle pick and you won’t drop them as often or ever again 

 

I use Ultex triangle 1.14

[Boodang]

9 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

Yep I’m finding in our rock band ( mostly overdriven guitar ) that a pick played PBass has the right tone 

Fresh roundwounds help too 

 

I love finger style tone for the mellow stuff but it gets lost in the band in most songs unless I bring out the pick 

Our stand in bassist plays pick with a Pbass and flatwounds and it sounds great. Less top end than the roundwounds obviously but has a 'thump' that really pushes thru. 

[BassAdder60]

Funny thing last night I heard Stormzy last night on the TV after getting home from rehearsals and the bassist in his band was playing finger / thumb on a five string Jazz and it sounded great. However the drums / guitar were low in the mix so the bass was easily heard

Edited November 16, 2022 by BassAdder60

[steve-bbb]

7 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

This. That fat, smooth, juicy sound we like in isolation is often completely wrong when playing live. I like to check, either using wireless or a long lead, by going for a wander out front to listen how the bass sounds in the mix. Often, I find I need to thin the low end to remove the mud and boost the mids and top to make it sit right. The resultant sound can be none too pleasant when I'm stood next to the rig, but if it's what works in the room, I'll put up with it.

I had a word of advice with a foh sound guy working the stage we were playing at a local town festival a few years back…

 

its very full on sub and top end and no mids definitely needs some mids….. says i

 

oh i quite like it like that ….replies sound guy who hadnt even walked out front and was still working at the desk at the side of the stage 😬

[TheGreek]

Years ago I wanted big bassy 15" cabs which moved lots of air. Now I tend to want middy 10 or 12" cabs with a warmer   more rounded tone. 

I tend to set my graphic as an inverted smile with more mids than bass/ treble 

[dmccombe7]

Depends on what bass i use but generally speaking i lean towards a more mid focused EQ for all basses.

I dont like a booming bass tone.

Also have same issue when standing in front of my cabs that the tone isnt what i like to hear but when i move out front the depth is there.

Dave

[BigRedX]

11 hours ago, TheGreek said:

Years ago I wanted big bassy 15" cabs which moved lots of air. Now I tend to want middy 10 or 12" cabs with a warmer   more rounded tone. 

I tend to set my graphic as an inverted smile with more mids than bass/ treble 

 

These days the size of the driver(s) is about the least important factor in determining how a cab will sound. Remember you get plenty of bass out of your headphones and HiFi speakers.

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

... you get plenty of bass out of your headphones and HiFi speakers.

 

But at what volume level..? 

[BigRedX]

3 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

But at what volume level..? 

 

Exactly. A larger cone will vibrate more air, but it won't automatically give a cab a particular tone.

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

Exactly. A larger cone will vibrate more air, but it won't automatically give a cab a particular tone.

 

This is true, of course, nowadays, with technology and materials that allow modern 'tone sculpting'. With new equipment, much more is possible, but at 'new equipment' prices. To some, it's worth it, to others (I'm one...), bass is bass is bass. I'm 'old school' (being old helps...), so the 'old' fridges give me the sounds I like. No, I don't cart them around anymore (been there, done that...), but I'm not going to invest in smaller speaker sizes just to get the same tone I like. I'm very happy with 15" bass (although I also have a 'Henry 8th' cab, with smaller cones..! It, too, weighs a ton, though..!).  

[BigRedX]

These days I don't bother with a bass rig any more and go straight into the PA. 

 

Before that I've had rigs with all different sizes of drivers from 6" to 18", but I've always been able to get a sound I liked out of them irrespective of the cone size.

[Dad3353]

45 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

These days I don't bother with a bass rig any more and go straight into the PA. 

 

Before that I've had rigs with all different sizes of drivers from 6" to 18", but I've always been able to get a sound I liked out of them irrespective of the cone size.

 

There are already projects equipping the audience with ear-buds, so no PA at all. It works. 

[Gypsyfolk]

22 hours ago, steve-bbb said:

I had a word of advice with a foh sound guy working the stage we were playing at a local town festival a few years back…

 

its very full on sub and top end and no mids definitely needs some mids….. says i

 

oh i quite like it like that ….replies sound guy who hadnt even walked out front and was still working at the desk at the side of the stage 😬

Most festies & a lot of venues seem to be like that these days, I think it’s because they are set up for edm. It makes for a terrible band mix as the kick is always way louder than the bass guitar. In the audience you cannot tell what note the bass is playing. Aaaaah!

[dmccombe7]

3 hours ago, Gypsyfolk said:

Most festies & a lot of venues seem to be like that these days, I think it’s because they are set up for edm. It makes for a terrible band mix as the kick is always way louder than the bass guitar. In the audience you cannot tell what note the bass is playing. Aaaaah!

I get that a lot with in house sound guys.

Annoys the heck out of me.

Dave