Creating a monster (lead singer problem)

[Mickeyboro]

We have achieved a great deal this year by mainly performing blues material already familiar to the main vocalist. 
 

We are now at the stage of widening our repertoire. Unfortunately he seems to feel he has the sole right to approve and/or veto what we do. 
 

His communication is poor - email is the limit, he doesn’t own a mobile phone and we keep getting the same  demanding mails sent and re-sent instead of any kind of discussion. 
 

If we lose him we will need another frontman- undesirable as we have recently had to replace our drummer. I suspect he wants the departed drummer back…
 

It has got to the point that he won’t come to rehearsals getting the new drummer up to speed as ‘I’ve been doing these songs for nine months’. (In fact he’s done them for 30 years snd still needs a music stand!)

 

Have things gone too far to rein him in and/or persuade him to be a team player? Bringing in a new person might bring similar ego problems and would set us back a second time. 
 

Opinions welcome.  

[NJE]

Personally I would be looking to replace him, life is too short to put up with rude unhelpful and unwilling people.

 

If you find a half decent vocalist you should be up and running after a couple of rehearsals if you give them a detailed list of what needs to be sung. Even more so if you allow them a music stand, it’s not like you are asking them to remember a long set of lyrics.

 

I went to my first rehearsal in ages last night, and I was asked to try some new songs which I had never sung before and wasn’t familiar with. 2 listens to the songs while everyone had a loo break and I was pretty much able to get through them problem free with lyrics on my phone.

 

My point is that you can achieve a lot with a positive attitude and some willing, so try and find someone like that.

Edited November 17, 2022 by NJE

[hubrad]

Eyup Mick, My first reaction is let this guy get away to re-form with ex-drummer and find yourselves a singer who's up for working as a band.

Painfully more work short term, but most likely less pain long term, fingers crossed!

[PaulWarning]

don't sack the singer till you've got another one lined up, being in a band is a minefield, finding people you can sort off get along with and have similar musical tastes is very difficult.

[Len_derby]

Refusing to rehearse while a new member gets up-to-speed would be the red line for me. What if you all felt the same way?

But, I agree with PaulW, don’t sack him until you’ve got a replacement. Especially if you have gigs in the diary. 

[Paul S]

I couldn't do that.  Turn up to rehearsals/gigs with someone knowing you were going to sack them.  Seems a bit shabby tbh.

[casapete]

I think you and the band deserve better Mick. If everyone's not pulling their weight, then it’s 

only a matter of time before things go t*ts up, so you may as well get it out of the way and

then move on. Sure, a new singer may have similar ego issues but then again may not.

Stress to any new members that homework needs doing first to keep rehearsals fresh

and enjoyable for everyone too. Good luck!

[TheGreek]

Isn't this par for course with singers and guitarists?

 

If we treated bands like jobs would anybody have a tantrum everytime they didn't get their way at the risk of losing their job? Remember NOBODY is indispensable - they're either committed to the project or not. If not, encourage them to go cycling.

[Len_derby]

25 minutes ago, Paul S said:

I couldn't do that.  Turn up to rehearsals/gigs with someone knowing you were going to sack them.  Seems a bit shabby tbh.

Yes, I can see your point there but he’s not apparently turning up for rehearsals which is what made me take the harsh line. 

[Graham56]

Are you doing this for fun or for money?

 

And if it's for fun, is the singer's behaviour taking the fun out of it?

 

[SteveK]

He sounds like a knob.

If he's a diva now, imagine if you achieved more success😳

I would look for a replacement.

 

Of course, during one of your singerless rehearsals, you could decide that a couple of songs sound better raised by a couple of whole tones, and forget to mention it before your next show.

... I'm only kidding, of course😉

[yorks5stringer]

Give me his address, I'll arrange a horse's head on his Emma Matress....

 

He sounds an egotistical  tool.

[Lozz196]

Having been in a band with someone similar my way of dealing now is if I’m unfortunate enough to end up in a band with someone like this I will leave and fully explain my reasons why. If the rest of the band stay with them they’re welcome to them. If they decide my way is preferable and that they would like to reform with me then great. I won’t work with people like that anymore, wasted too long that one time, never again.

[BassTractor]

34 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Having been in a band with someone similar my way of dealing now is if I’m unfortunate enough to end up in a band with someone like this I will leave and fully explain my reasons why. If the rest of the band stay with them they’re welcome to them. If they decide my way is preferable and that they would like to reform with me then great. I won’t work with people like that anymore, wasted too long that one time, never again.

This is what I did twice in similar circumstances as @Mickeyboro describes, so it sounds like good advice to me.

[NHM]

12 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

Unfortunately he seems to feel he has the sole right to approve and/or veto what we do. 

I think this is fair enough. He's got to sing the material (and thus front the band), so should have the final say in what's in and what's out (as long as the material falls within the agreed genre for the band). The band is most likely to be a success if the front person owns the material and performs it with style and gusto. Covers bands that choose the set by committee are more hobbyists IMO.

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, NHM said:

I think this is fair enough. He's got to sing the material (and thus front the band), so should have the final say in what's in and what's out (as long as the material falls within the agreed genre for the band). The band is most likely to be a success if the front person owns the material and performs it with style and gusto. Covers bands that choose the set by committee are more hobbyists IMO.

 

Errrrm it's a covers band.  Unless this is a top notch tribute of course it'll be a hobby, the singer is being a bit of a tool for not having a bit of give/take!  Unless you form a band around 'you' and make it clear from the off that it is your band and you have the only say, then everyone should have a voice... not just the person with the biggest personality or the person who is happy to be a bully!  

 

I was in a band that focused on American/Southern boogie/blues/soul and we had a nice broad range of covers material to choose from and the whole band had known each other for years and been in bands with each other over the last 30+ years.  Early song choices were unanimous (6 in the band) but as we got to the point where we were getting some good buzz about the band, we needed to add material. 

 

In our case one of the guitarists started to be the stumbling block.  We eventually agreed the best way to choose songs would be for everyone to choose 2 songs and we'd have a simple ranking vote on the 12 songs, the 3 with the most votes would be learned next; nice and fair/democratic... you'd think!  We turned up to the next rehearsal having messaged everyone the 3 songs the week before to find the guitarist hadn't learned any of them and wouldn't be learning them as he was going to sit out those songs and go to the bar!    

 

To rub salt in the wound we ended up learning one of his suggestions which had received exactly 1 vote... his.  The band lasted about 2 more weeks and that was it, we folded, tried to reform but tbh he was pretty vitriolic about the fact we had effectively sacked him and made it quite uncomfortable among the various friendships.  

 

Applying what I learned to the OP situation I'd be up front with the singer and point out it is a 'band' and everyone needed to have a say.  His bully-boy tactics will only continue to cause grief, so it may as well be all for one or he has to walk (not be sacked).  

[Franticsmurf]

I've been in a similar position to the OP, with the singer only agreeing to perform songs that he already knows. Turns out they were from his solo act. Initially not too bad (although frustrating as we missed some good songs) but ultimately it led to other problems as his ego realised he could do anything he wanted. We had all sorts of odd tunes turn up, strange random arrangements of the songs we already did. Eventually, as he was putting no effort in to playing with the band, even his own song choices suffered as he forgot there was a band behind him. The rest of the band walked. The drummer stills says he played Hotel California many times with the singer, but rarely the same version more than once. 😃

 

To the OP - my point is that the band's reputation suffered as the singer got more of his own way, which equated with poor performances, song choices and ultimately attitude as we became fed up with the situation. We lost venues as a direct result of his attitude. We should have acted sooner but the lure of gigs was strong.

 

A band is a band. A solo artist with a backing band is a separate beast. Everyone has to own the material or the performance is poor.

[Woody1957]

Get rid asap, its just not worth the hassle. Short term pain but long term gain. If this guy isnt even willing to communicate face to face or turn up for rehearsals then whats the point.

Ive been in good bands that have been torn apart by arrogant, egotistical singers/guitarist and troublesome wifes/girlfriends and it just does not work out. Cut your losses mate, either get rid or find another band where everyone is rowing the same boat👍

[chris_b]

Find a new singer. this one is a liability and will never be anything else.

[Happy Jack]

Life's too short, move on. 

 

Granted it will be a complete PITA having to wade through all the flakes and fantasists who answer your advert on JoinMyBand (or similar) but eventually you'll find someone who reminds you why you started playing in bands in the first place.

 

Keep an open mind. Instead of trying to "replace" the existing clown on a one-for-one basis, just see who's out there ... male or female, same age as you or just out of uni.

 

From everything I've seen over the last few months, 2023 is going to be a complete shower of 5h1t when it comes to gigging, so you may as well take it as a 'band re-build' year and start thinking about 2024.

 

[PaulWarning]

in our band if someone really doesn't want to do a song we don't do it, sort of choice by consensus, there's plenty out there to choose from

[warwickhunt]

6 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

in our band if someone really doesn't want to do a song we don't do it, sort of choice by consensus, there's plenty out there to choose from

 

Agreed and the singer has to be able to sing it but the issue comes when you have an individual who refuses to do literally anything that the others like... by definition it ends up where you only do what they want.  I've been in covers bands for 40 years and over that time I've played 100's (and 100's) of songs, some I don't rate but I came to a decision years ago that if I or anyone else 'really' hated a song it wouldn't be done but you can't really hate EVERY song suggested.    

[mcnach]

14 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

We have achieved a great deal this year by mainly performing blues material already familiar to the main vocalist. 
 

We are now at the stage of widening our repertoire. Unfortunately he seems to feel he has the sole right to approve and/or veto what we do. 
 

His communication is poor - email is the limit, he doesn’t own a mobile phone and we keep getting the same  demanding mails sent and re-sent instead of any kind of discussion. 
 

If we lose him we will need another frontman- undesirable as we have recently had to replace our drummer. I suspect he wants the departed drummer back…
 

It has got to the point that he won’t come to rehearsals getting the new drummer up to speed as ‘I’ve been doing these songs for nine months’. (In fact he’s done them for 30 years snd still needs a music stand!)

 

Have things gone too far to rein him in and/or persuade him to be a team player? Bringing in a new person might bring similar ego problems and would set us back a second time. 
 

Opinions welcome.  

 

 

I know that getting rid off him seems like a drag... but frankly, do you want to carry on that way? These people don't change their attitudes.

 

The sooner you start the search for a new vocalist the better. I'd certainly wouldn't stay in those conditions. He seems to think his time is more valuable than yours (not showing up to rehearsals because HE already knows the songs).

 

What do you think will happen if you don't replace the vocalist?

[mcnach]

14 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

don't sack the singer till you've got another one lined up,

 

I disagree.

 

That just prolongs the agony, and in many cases will delay the change. Once you've established a certain member doesn't work, it's time. It's also pretty dodgy in my books: I like to be transparent about this kind of thing. 

 

If it's just 'work', sure, do whatever it takes to get the income. But if there's a substantial element of 'fun' in the whole arrangement, I don't see how that can work. It really would not work for me. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.  

One of the things I learnt over the years that has served me very well (I think) is to not be afraid to quit a band or to define my boundaries/expectations. I wasted far too much time at first with dysfunctional bands because I didn't want to stop, even temporarily, and look again for new people. But if you don't move on... 

[BigRedX]

IMO, if you've reached the point where you feel the need to air this on a publicly accessible part of the internet, then either you or the vocalist needs to go.