bloke_zero Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 I just put together an EMG based P bass with a roasted maple neck and, I think, a Meranti body from Gear4Music. So far so fun! The body is very light and resonant, the EMG's clear, authoritative and very unforgiving of bad technique (uh oh!). I was really inspired by ead's limelight build: Though I'm not there yet I do have 2 EMG p pickups, so this is step one of getting somewhere close. I think I'll need an alder body with the double reverse P routed in. Or maybe a body blank as I found the drilling of the bridge and neck pocket much less difficult than I thought. Anyway, some pictures (I know it's not exactly a looker...): 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Following this with interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted November 29, 2022 Author Share Posted November 29, 2022 A new day a new body. I feel sorry for what this will go through. It's a 2 piece alder Guitar and Bass Builds body from ebay in a rather fetching copper leaf (no, it's NOT rose gold, no matter what my wife says!). It's very nice feeling, well finished Waiting for the pickup routing template before doing anything too drastic to the wood work, hence the bulge in the pickguard where the battery is. For a bonus round anyone care to guess which badly played eight bars is the alder and which the merenti? https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7567zasojgkwco/bassbodies.wav?dl=0 They feel pretty distinct to me, though maybe not as much difference as I'd thought. Recorded straight into a UAD Arrow interface through the HI Z input with the vol and tone on max. We'd be supposing that the hi mass bridge would abstract out most of the body effect (yes, yes, I know, tone wood schmone wood). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, bloke_zero said: For a bonus round anyone care to guess which badly played eight bars is the alder and which the merenti? Alder first, Merenti second? Guessing just cos I want bonus point more than any real conviction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 On 30/11/2022 at 00:11, LukeFRC said: Alder first, Merenti second? Guessing just cos I want bonus point more than any real conviction You're hearing the same thing as me! But unfortunately for the wrong reason 😞 The first one is the Merenti, the 2nd the Alder, but the neck wasn't fully tightened. Sorry - proper school boy error. This one the Alder is first: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrtl7gyi92e6fll/bassbody_2.wav?dl=0 Just goes to show how the every part of the equation is important. And that making mistakes is still a big part of my day to day! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Wot, it's sensible. 🤣 I do like the tone of both, even if I slightly prefer the alder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Why's the bridge so far back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulThePlug Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) ^ I think there is just a lot of bridge behind the standard screw holes... Edited December 1, 2022 by PaulThePlug 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Beedster said: Why's the bridge so far back? Yeah, @PaulThePlug is right, that is the standard Fender placement as drilled by Guitar and Bass Build. It's like the Badass bridge - there is a whole lot of bridge going on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Hellzero said: Wot, it's sensible. 🤣 I do like the tone of both, even if I slightly prefer the alder. I was suprised at how much I like the merenti - very light, very resonant. Makes me think I'd like swamp ash as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 Got Monday off. My chisel might get an outing. Looking like: Bridge: EA 375mm, DG 347mm Neck: EA 250mm, DG 220mm Give or take a few mils! Lee says the pickups are in traditional J position, but the neck PU is much closer to the neck as far as I can tell. I stole this from the other place: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/lee-sklar-type-double-p.665361/page-4#post-16567455 Sort of chimes with some of the figures here, but the neck pickup 20-25mm closer to the neck... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 The neck pickup soloed is definitely richer in tone than a normal P bass so your analysis looks spot on to me. Nice to see it represented graphically too. I might well 'steal' that pic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Do you want me to check the measurements btw? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 12 hours ago, bloke_zero said: Got Monday off. My chisel might get an outing. Looking like: Bridge: EA 375mm, DG 347mm Neck: EA 250mm, DG 220mm Give or take a few mils! Lee says the pickups are in traditional J position, but the neck PU is much closer to the neck as far as I can tell. I stole this from the other place: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/lee-sklar-type-double-p.665361/page-4#post-16567455 Sort of chimes with some of the figures here, but the neck pickup 20-25mm closer to the neck... Told years ago by next door neighbour who was a guitar tech come builder that best place to set up pickup placement is to make sure they are under the harmonic. In an unknown instance he would mount them upside down over the strings using little blocks or even matchboxes to get the exact spot to cut the location for the pickups. It does make a massive difference to the fullness of sound if they are not under a harmonic. For better or for worse according to your personal taste I suppose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 10 hours ago, ead said: Do you want me to check the measurements btw? If you could that would be great! The best would be from the 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 46 minutes ago, Ralf1e said: Told years ago by next door neighbour who was a guitar tech come builder that best place to set up pickup placement is to make sure they are under the harmonic. In an unknown instance he would mount them upside down over the strings using little blocks or even matchboxes to get the exact spot to cut the location for the pickups. It does make a massive difference to the fullness of sound if they are not under a harmonic. For better or for worse according to your personal taste I suppose. I’m sure you’re right. Small changes in position make a really big difference. As it’s hard for me to experiment with just the kitchen table for a work bench I’m really interested in getting the measurements that are known working ones! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, bloke_zero said: If you could that would be great! The best would be from the 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up. No probs, will get back to you later today on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 minute ago, bloke_zero said: I’m sure you’re right. Small changes in position make a really big difference. As it’s hard for me to experiment with just the kitchen table for a work bench I’m really interested in getting the measurements that are known working ones! Absolutely! You only want to cut once. If someone has done the work already its there to use. He demoed that idea for me on a school built guitar my son never properly finished. I put Seymour Duncan SH-11 Custom Custom in the bridge position and a Dimarzio Fast track 1TM DP181 in the neck. It sounded huge for a made at school botch job. Mind you I did an awful lot of other stuff to it. I still have it to this day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Ralf1e said: Told years ago by next door neighbour who was a guitar tech come builder that best place to set up pickup placement is to make sure they are under the harmonic The what harmonic though? obviously there are a whole set of harmonics, but they are only fixed for open strings, when you fret the notes the harmonics move with the frets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Here you go, and using the Mk1 eyeball technique so may be a mm or two out: 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - neck - 247mm 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - bridge - 373mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: The what harmonic though? obviously there are a whole set of harmonics, but they are only fixed for open strings, when you fret the notes the harmonics move with the frets The idea is based on the harmonics on open strings. As an example there is the 12th 19th 22nd what would be the 24th 26th 29th etc based very quickly on my Thunder 3 The neck pickup sits right under what would be the 26th fret if it had one. Some are far more prominent than others 12th 19th 24th 26th. You would expect 18th not 19th so maybe I need to give it a fresh set up. My G&L legacy 5 agrees with all of the above including being on the 19th not 18th It also has a lovely strong harmonic at 255mm from the 12th fret on all 5 strings although its pup sits behind that spot by about 40mm to the centre Lets assume someone somewhere has a database of pup positions and harmonics. Right own up who are you? If not maybe one of our mathematical experts could start one. Edited December 12, 2022 by Ralf1e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I love all this stuff, for me it is so much more interesting than go in the shop play it buy it but never know how its made or what makes it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 43 minutes ago, Ralf1e said: The idea is based on the harmonics on open strings. As an example there is the 12th 19th 22nd what would be the 24th 26th 29th etc based very quickly on my Thunder 3 The neck pickup sits right under what would be the 26th fret if it had one. But why? is that to make your open strings quieter and counteract the fact they are normally louder? Obviously being under a harmonic will deny you any contribution of that harmonic in the output (assuming a single coil pickup), so maybe give you a deeper sound, and ok, I could get that, but that would completely change sound as soon as you fretted any note, so what is the point? Its easy to work out where the harmonics would be, but my question is why does it make it desirable that purely on open strings you remove that harmonic, but not any of the other frets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 25 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: Its easy to work out where the harmonics would be, but my question is why does it make it desirable that purely on open strings you remove that harmonic, but not any of the other frets? We all know that 3 on E gives the best possible start to a bass line! But it's a fair question. Maybe positioning the pickups by ear gives that particular combination of neck and body the feel that you get from a hand made suit? (Not that I have a hand made suit...). In which case it wouldn't be specifically the harmonics, just a sense of the timbre? 1 hour ago, Ralf1e said: I love all this stuff, for me it is so much more interesting than go in the shop play it buy it but never know how its made or what makes it work. Me too! I feel like I've really learnt a lot about what I like and why. I like the fact that there are only a few variables, and they all make different contributions (the pickups arguably being the biggest) but they all do make some small difference, and pickup position makes a big difference. 1 hour ago, ead said: Here you go, and using the Mk1 eyeball technique so may be a mm or two out: 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - neck - 247mm 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - bridge - 373mm You sir are a scholar and a gentleman! Thank you! I was worried about the neck position as that is so far out of the normal jazz range - good to have confirmation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 35 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: But why? is that to make your open strings quieter and counteract the fact they are normally louder? Obviously being under a harmonic will deny you any contribution of that harmonic in the output (assuming a single coil pickup), so maybe give you a deeper sound, and ok, I could get that, but that would completely change sound as soon as you fretted any note, so what is the point? Its easy to work out where the harmonics would be, but my question is why does it make it desirable that purely on open strings you remove that harmonic, but not any of the other frets? It doesn't remove the harmonic. It picks it up and gives a thicker fuller sound not denying it but enhancing its contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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