New Bitsa Day

[bloke_zero]

I just put together an EMG based P bass with a roasted maple neck and, I think, a Meranti body from Gear4Music. So far so fun! The body is very light and resonant, the EMG's clear, authoritative and very unforgiving of bad technique (uh oh!). I was really inspired by ead's limelight build:

Though I'm not there yet I do have 2 EMG p pickups, so this is step one of getting somewhere close. I think I'll need an alder body with the double reverse P routed in. Or maybe a body blank as I found the drilling of the bridge and neck pocket much less difficult than I thought.

 

Anyway, some pictures (I know it's not exactly a looker...):

 

[ead]

Following this with interest.

[bloke_zero]

A new day a new body. I feel sorry for what this will go through. It's a 2 piece alder Guitar and Bass Builds body from ebay in a rather fetching copper leaf (no, it's NOT rose gold, no matter what my wife says!). It's very nice feeling, well finished

 

Waiting for the pickup routing template before doing anything too drastic to the wood work, hence the bulge in the pickguard where the battery is.

 

 

For a bonus round anyone care to guess which badly played eight bars is the alder and which the merenti?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7567zasojgkwco/bassbodies.wav?dl=0

 

They feel pretty distinct to me, though maybe not as much difference as I'd thought. Recorded straight into a UAD Arrow interface through the HI Z input with the vol and tone on max.

 

We'd be supposing that the hi mass bridge would abstract out most of the body effect (yes, yes, I know, tone wood schmone wood).

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, bloke_zero said:

For a bonus round anyone care to guess which badly played eight bars is the alder and which the merenti?

Alder first, Merenti second? 
Guessing just cos I want bonus point more than any real conviction

[bloke_zero]

On 30/11/2022 at 00:11, LukeFRC said:

Alder first, Merenti second? 
Guessing just cos I want bonus point more than any real conviction

You're hearing the same thing as me! But unfortunately for the wrong reason 😞

 

The first one is the Merenti, the 2nd the Alder, but the neck wasn't fully tightened. Sorry - proper school boy error.

 

This one the Alder is first:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrtl7gyi92e6fll/bassbody_2.wav?dl=0

 

Just goes to show how the every part of the equation is important. And that making mistakes is still a big part of my day to day!

 

[Hellzero]

Wot, it's sensible. 🤣

 

I do like the tone of both, even if I slightly prefer the alder.

[Beedster]

Why's the bridge so far back?

[PaulThePlug]

^ I think there is just a lot of bridge behind the standard screw holes...

Edited December 1, 2022 by PaulThePlug

[bloke_zero]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

Why's the bridge so far back?

Yeah, @PaulThePlug is right, that is the standard Fender placement as drilled by Guitar and Bass Build. It's like the Badass bridge - there is a whole lot of bridge going on!

[bloke_zero]

3 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Wot, it's sensible. 🤣

 

I do like the tone of both, even if I slightly prefer the alder.

I was suprised at how much I like the merenti - very light, very resonant. Makes me think I'd like swamp ash as well.

[bloke_zero]

Got Monday off. My chisel might get an outing.

 

Looking like:

Bridge: EA 375mm, DG 347mm

Neck: EA 250mm, DG 220mm

 

Give or take a few mils!

 

Lee says the pickups are in traditional J position, but the neck PU is much closer to the neck as far as I can tell.

 

I stole this from the other place: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/lee-sklar-type-double-p.665361/page-4#post-16567455

 

Sort of chimes with some of the figures here, but the neck pickup 20-25mm closer to the neck...

 

[ead]

The neck pickup soloed is definitely richer in tone than a normal P bass so your analysis looks spot on to me.  Nice to see it represented graphically too.  I might well 'steal' that pic 

[ead]

Do you want me to check the measurements btw?

[Ralf1e]

12 hours ago, bloke_zero said:

Got Monday off. My chisel might get an outing.

 

Looking like:

Bridge: EA 375mm, DG 347mm

Neck: EA 250mm, DG 220mm

 

Give or take a few mils!

 

Lee says the pickups are in traditional J position, but the neck PU is much closer to the neck as far as I can tell.

 

I stole this from the other place: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/lee-sklar-type-double-p.665361/page-4#post-16567455

 

Sort of chimes with some of the figures here, but the neck pickup 20-25mm closer to the neck...

 

Told years ago by next door neighbour who was a guitar tech come builder that best place to set up pickup placement is to make sure they are under the harmonic. In an unknown instance he would mount them upside down over the strings using little blocks or even matchboxes to get the exact spot to cut the location for the pickups. It does make a massive difference to the fullness of sound if they are not under a harmonic. For better or for worse according to your personal taste I suppose.

[bloke_zero]

10 hours ago, ead said:

Do you want me to check the measurements btw?

If you could that would be great! The best would be from the 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up.

[bloke_zero]

46 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

Told years ago by next door neighbour who was a guitar tech come builder that best place to set up pickup placement is to make sure they are under the harmonic. In an unknown instance he would mount them upside down over the strings using little blocks or even matchboxes to get the exact spot to cut the location for the pickups. It does make a massive difference to the fullness of sound if they are not under a harmonic. For better or for worse according to your personal taste I suppose.

I’m sure you’re right. Small changes in position make a really big difference.

 

As it’s hard for me to experiment with just the kitchen table for a work bench I’m really interested in getting the measurements that are known working ones!

[ead]

10 minutes ago, bloke_zero said:

If you could that would be great! The best would be from the 12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up.

 

No probs, will get back to you later today on this.

[Ralf1e]

1 minute ago, bloke_zero said:

I’m sure you’re right. Small changes in position make a really big difference.

 

As it’s hard for me to experiment with just the kitchen table for a work bench I’m really interested in getting the measurements that are known working ones!

Absolutely! You only want to cut once. If someone has done the work already its there to use.

He demoed that idea for me on a school built guitar my son never properly finished. I put Seymour Duncan SH-11 Custom Custom in the bridge position and a Dimarzio Fast track 1TM DP181 in the neck. It sounded huge for a made at school botch job. Mind you I did an awful lot of other stuff to it. I still have it to this day.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

Told years ago by next door neighbour who was a guitar tech come builder that best place to set up pickup placement is to make sure they are under the harmonic

 

The what harmonic though? obviously there are a whole set of harmonics, but they are only fixed for open strings, when you fret the notes the harmonics move with the frets

[ead]

Here you go, and using the Mk1 eyeball technique so may be a mm or two out:

 

12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - neck - 247mm

 

12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - bridge - 373mm

[Ralf1e]

53 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

The what harmonic though? obviously there are a whole set of harmonics, but they are only fixed for open strings, when you fret the notes the harmonics move with the frets

The idea is based on the harmonics on open strings. As an example there is the 12th 19th 22nd what would be the 24th 26th 29th etc based very quickly on my Thunder 3

The neck pickup sits right under what would be the 26th fret if it had one.

Some are far more prominent than others 12th 19th 24th 26th.

You would expect 18th not 19th so maybe I need to give it a fresh set up.

My G&L legacy 5 agrees with all of the above including being on the 19th not 18th

It also has a lovely strong harmonic at 255mm from the 12th fret on all 5 strings although its pup sits behind that spot by about 40mm to the centre

Lets assume someone somewhere has a database of pup positions and harmonics.

Right own up who are you?

If not maybe one of our mathematical experts could start one.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Ralf1e

[Ralf1e]

I love all this stuff, for me it is so much more interesting than go in the shop play it buy it but never know how its made or what makes it work.

[Woodinblack]

43 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

The idea is based on the harmonics on open strings. As an example there is the 12th 19th 22nd what would be the 24th 26th 29th etc based very quickly on my Thunder 3

The neck pickup sits right under what would be the 26th fret if it had one.

 

But why? is that to make your open strings quieter and counteract the fact they are normally louder? Obviously being under a harmonic will deny you any contribution of that harmonic in the output (assuming a single coil pickup), so maybe give you a deeper sound, and ok, I could get that, but that would completely change sound as soon as you fretted any note, so what is the point?

 

Its easy to work out where the harmonics would be, but my question is why does it make it desirable that purely on open strings you remove that harmonic, but not any of the other frets?

[bloke_zero]

25 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Its easy to work out where the harmonics would be, but my question is why does it make it desirable that purely on open strings you remove that harmonic, but not any of the other frets?

We all know that 3 on E gives the best possible start to a bass line! But it's a fair question. Maybe positioning the pickups by ear gives that particular combination of neck and body the feel that you get from a hand made suit? (Not that I have a hand made suit...). In which case it wouldn't be specifically the harmonics, just a sense of the timbre?

 

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

I love all this stuff, for me it is so much more interesting than go in the shop play it buy it but never know how its made or what makes it work.

 

Me too! I feel like I've really learnt a lot about what I like and why. I like the fact that there are only a few variables, and they all make different contributions (the pickups arguably being the biggest) but they all do make some small difference, and pickup position makes a big difference.

 

1 hour ago, ead said:

Here you go, and using the Mk1 eyeball technique so may be a mm or two out:

 

12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - neck - 247mm

 

12th fret to the centre of the EA part of the pick up - bridge - 373mm

 

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman! Thank you! I was worried about the neck position as that is so far out of the normal jazz range - good to have confirmation!

[Ralf1e]

35 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But why? is that to make your open strings quieter and counteract the fact they are normally louder? Obviously being under a harmonic will deny you any contribution of that harmonic in the output (assuming a single coil pickup), so maybe give you a deeper sound, and ok, I could get that, but that would completely change sound as soon as you fretted any note, so what is the point?

 

Its easy to work out where the harmonics would be, but my question is why does it make it desirable that purely on open strings you remove that harmonic, but not any of the other frets?

It doesn't remove the harmonic. It picks it up and gives a thicker fuller sound not denying it but enhancing its contribution.