Crappy Low B

[AdamWoodBass]

Hey guys!

Ok so the other day I'm playing around with my fender jazz and I just can't get the sound I'm looking for. Me thinks it's time to do some tone searching. So I pull out an old Yamaha BB605, restring it and get to jamming. The tone is simply gorgeous except for one fatal flaw, the low B sucks! Buying a new bass is simply not an option at the mo so I'm looking for some cheap suggestions to improve my B string's responsiveness (is that even a word?!) I tend to play with the bridge pickup soloed and I like a tight and punchy sort of "jaco if he was playing a Fodera" sort of tone.

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in the forum, I did a few searches and couldn't find anything.

Much appreciated peeps

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[Mr. Foxen]

Taper wound and a guage heavier than is usually supplied with a set. Also, lots of cabs and lots of headroom on your amp. Bit I just made up to fit in with past eperience and provoke response from knowledgeable sorts: Combos and little cabs will be bottoming out before the 1st overtone (or harmonic, the one thats 1 octave higher and comprises most of the bit you proper hear of the really low notes) so the note will sound lame.

[caruso]

La Bella HRS might help, the 45/65/85/105/128 set I like best.

[chris_b]

Start saving for a 35" scale bass.

[NJE]

[quote name='chris_b' post='469488' date='Apr 22 2009, 12:19 PM']Start saving for a 35" scale bass.[/quote]

I dont think thats always the answer, I play a 34" scale fender with Bb low and its awesome. Some folk even use 33" scale with low B with no problems. I would say try some different strings and get a really good set up. I dont have a super low on the frets set up as i like to dig in and find that helps (might just be me) and use Ernieball Extra Slinky 5s which work well for me. As previously said your amp is a big part of it as well, make sure you have a speaker that will handle the frequency and plenty of power, no good using a 30watt practice amp with a Low B.

[The Funk]

If the string feels floppy, then a heavier string would be my answer. If the string sounds crap, better amplification might be the answer.

[XB26354]

Scale length isn't the issue - I've owned plenty of Warwicks, a MusicMan, an Ibanez and a Ken Smith. They all had killer B strings and all were 34". I used DR HiBeams on all of them too - to me a better choice than a tapered string as the tone is consistent across all strings and I can still palm mute easily. I also owned a BB615 at one point and remember that it sounded great over the bridge PU with DRs.
If you remember the BB605 having a good B in the first place then a change of string brand might be the answer. From your sig seems there's nothing wrong with amplification.

[SJA]

there's been a strange tip floating around on Talkbass claimed to improve low B tone- of using a short brass tube to extend the length of the B string past the bridge- the reasoning being along the lines of that for the benefits of through-body stringing (and of siting the B string machinehead further away from the nut)-
the physics involved is a bit contentious as you can't alter the tension without changing the pitch of the string, but I think the way the string stretches and flexes when plucked changes in some way.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='SJA' post='469547' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:05 PM']there's been a strange tip floating around on Talkbass claimed to improve low B tone- of using a short brass tube to extend the length of the B string past the bridge- the reasoning being along the lines of that for the benefits of through-body stringing (and of siting the B string machinehead further away from the nut)-
the physics involved is a bit contentious as you can't alter the tension without changing the pitch of the string, but I think the way the string stretches and flexes when plucked changes in some way.[/quote]

That IS strange.
Here's another one;

To raise the "Perceived" tension of a B string, one common approach is to minimise the number of times the string is wrapped around the tuner post.
About 1 to 1.5 times is okay. Reasoning being that string stretches along its entire length when plucked- not just between the saddle and nut (albeit not proportionately!) By reducing the overall length of the string (for a given pitch and/or tension), you make it "feel" stiffer... give it a go. Most people on here seem to be in agreement about the effect. If not the cause!

Edited April 22, 2009 by Lfalex v1.1

[silverfoxnik]

Slightly higher action on the B string might help?

[peted]

Try using a slightly heavier string or different brand (I've found DR strings to be amazingly taut at low pitch)

Use the windings on the tuning peg to increase the break angle over the nut.

Raise the bridge saddle on the B to increase break angle over the bridge.

Make sure that the string isn't rattling around in either the nut or bridge saddles (i.e. make sure that the grooves in the nut or bridge saddles haven't worn too wide)

[Greene-Mann]

What i did with mine (JazzV) was put on another string retainer over the B and E strings...Place it quite close to the nut and it clarified that muddy sod more than i expected it to. Its another way of messing with the break angle thing.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Even simpler than the string retainer idea, try making sure that the B-string is wound top to bottom on the post. Good way of making sure the string is as taut as it can be.

[XB26354]

[quote name='SJA' post='469547' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:05 PM']there's been a strange tip floating around on Talkbass claimed to improve low B tone- of using a short brass tube to extend the length of the B string past the bridge- the reasoning being along the lines of that for the benefits of through-body stringing (and of siting the B string machinehead further away from the nut)-
the physics involved is a bit contentious as you can't alter the tension without changing the pitch of the string, but I think the way the string stretches and flexes when plucked changes in some way.[/quote]

That's from the Gary Willis book "101 Tips For Bass" - he recommended using a PC board spacer.
OTPJ and others are on the right track I think - solid anchor and a definite break angle over nut and bridge helps a lot with definition. MusicMan tuners have tapered shafts for this very reason. Also try pushing down on a new string just past the nut and bridge to make these break angles sit as the B does not always want to bend. Look at the bottom winding of the string coming off the tuner towards the nut - is it a straight line or a curve? If a curve push it in until it is straight. I actually had this with the Warwick. Wondered why the hitherto great-sounding B was suddenly lifeless when I put a new set of strings on, looked at the B tuner, pushed the string back in, hey presto great B tone again. Generally more of an issue with smaller shaft tuners like Gotoh, Hipshot Ultralite etc.

[fingerz]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='469873' date='Apr 22 2009, 07:00 PM']That IS strange.
Here's another one;

To raise the "Perceived" tension of a B string, one common approach is to minimise the number of times the string is wrapped around the tuner post.
About 1 to 1.5 times is okay. Reasoning being that string stretches along its entire length when plucked- not just between the saddle and nut (albeit not proportionately!) By reducing the overall length of the string (for a given pitch and/or tension), you make it "feel" stiffer... give it a go. Most people on here seem to be in agreement about the effect. If not the cause![/quote]


IME it is more important to get the B string wrapped around the tuning post a few times so as it is right at the base/bottom of the post. This will give you a better break angle over the nut making sure the string is anchored down nicely and isolating all vibration to the part of the string you actually play on. (ie between bridge and nut). This goes for the other end too at the bridge. Creating a good break angle here will increase tension-echoing what everyone else is saying really...

Check your bass is properly set up. If there is too much relief in the neck you'll find you have to lower the bridge saddles to get lower action-if it's badly set up you could be sacrificing valuable string tension.

Basically, try to get the string really anchored down at both ends (Bridge/Nut). Tapered strings could help if your stuck for ideas. Tapered strings are also useful if you feel the string might be finding a sympathetic frequency in the wood (dead spot) as the thinner part of the string that runs over the bridge saddle may not find the same frequency when you play as the thick standard type. I have no experience of this but it makes sense and would be worth a try..

Good luck bro!

[AdamWoodBass]

Thanks for all the replies on this guys, some great tips here. I think the main issue with the string is that it's just not as punchy and defined as the rest of the strings. Probably a pretty drastic measure but what do you reckon a new set of pickups would do? I mean the theory I have in my head is that a higher quality set of pickups instead of the stock yamaha alnico's would make a considerable difference. I don't want to mess about with the preamp as it's really good as it is, I'm just thinking about maybe getting a pair of 5 string EMG's and seeing if it improves things.

With regards to winding the string down to the bottom of the peg I usually do that with my strings anyway. It does make a difference but the definition on the B string is still a bit weak.

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Edited April 23, 2009 by AdamWoodBass

[JPJ]

I have tried most of the string tension ideas on my 34" Fender Jazz V and my home built PV with some success, but the biggest secret to a good 'B' string tone is pickup height. Too close to the string and it sounds thin and weedy, too far away and it sounds quiet but flabby. I'd recommend that you play about with the height of the pickups before you go to the expense of changing them.

[umph]

[quote name='AdamWoodBass' post='470379' date='Apr 23 2009, 08:48 AM']Thanks for all the replies on this guys, some great tips here. I think the main issue with the string is that it's just not as punchy and defined as the rest of the strings. Probably a pretty drastic measure but what do you reckon a new set of pickups would do? I mean the theory I have in my head is that a higher quality set of pickups instead of the stock yamaha alnico's would make a considerable difference. I don't want to mess about with the preamp as it's really good as it is, I'm just thinking about maybe getting a pair of 5 string EMG's and seeing if it improves things.

With regards to winding the string down to the bottom of the peg I usually do that with my strings anyway. It does make a difference but the definition on the B string is still a bit weak.

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from my experience with the warwick protube IX it was exactly a lowend monster and tended to be all about the midrange try your bass out with a bigger amp and or some different speakers before you start messing about with it!

[Gwilym]

what does the B string sound like acoustically? i've always found it a good yardstick to have a listen to the bass unplugged with my ear up against the body of the bass. if it still sounds iffy, you'll know it's either the string, setup or the bass itself.

personally, i've always found that the string makes the most difference, not that i've experimented that much. as others have mentioned, make sure the string breaks properly over the bridge and nut.

EDIT: I wouldn't get bogged down with amplification either - like many things, it's garbage in garbage out. a decent B string would sound better through a Behringer (which I think are quite decent amps I might add), than a crappy B string through a boutique amp - probably!.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Gwilym

[AREA]

Go for a Set of Strings with a taperwound B-String (maybe also B & E String). This will improve the Sound (Tightness & Definition) of your "Low-B"

[Soulfinger]

[quote name='JPJ' post='470484' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:07 PM']I have tried most of the string tension ideas on my 34" Fender Jazz V and my home built PV with some success, but the biggest secret to a good 'B' string tone is pickup height. Too close to the string and it sounds thin and weedy, too far away and it sounds quiet but flabby. I'd recommend that you play about with the height of the pickups before you go to the expense of changing them.[/quote]
+ 1.

Pickup height adjustment is a very efficient way to alter your sound (not only on the B string) plus it won´t cost you anything. A little goes a long way - a half turn may be enough to get you where you want. Rule of thumb: closer to the string - more mids, farther away - more bass.

[Rogerio Rosario]

1-Since i put the EMG pickups , the 5 string , sound more powerfull....so guess pickups helped !!
2-and also hit the B string more strong with my fingers , make some change too !
3-also saw that when in studios when have speakers with 4x10" , plus 1x15" speaker !helped
4-ofcourse a little , little compression too !
5-my B string , is 130



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[AdamWoodBass]

I've spent a little time tweaking the pickup height but it hasnt seemed to make much of a difference. Mind you that is at bedroom volume, I'll try it at the jam tomorrow night and see how it sounds. If it's still a bit weak I might try messing with some eq and compression options.

[geoffbyrne]

All the best low Bs I've played have had some sort of string tree making the break angle over the nut more extreme.

DR strings no doubt help.

I had a Washburn Bantam B2005 and with a Bartolini (can't remember the designation) on it the B was dire. I put the original Washburn pup back on and it sounded great. Go figure!

By far & away the best B I've played was on a Cort A6 and it had D'Addario XLS on.

G.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I've yet to hear any bass with as strong a B as my NS-CR5M upright with the magnetic EMG pickups - but that has a scale length of over 40".