Fender, Where is the Value?

[Chienmortbb]

50 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

Gotcha...I have owned two USA Fenders, and currently own a Korean one....outstanding!!!!

Of course, the Aerodyne would not exist if Leo Fender had not developed the Precision and Jazz.

[crazycloud]

On 01/12/2022 at 22:21, tegs07 said:

Never had a terrible one, nor one I consider to be vastly overpriced.

Then you're lucky. I have (more than one) and was glad to get rid of them.

[tegs07]

9 hours ago, crazycloud said:

Then you're lucky. I have (more than one) and was glad to get rid of them.

Maybe it’s an era thing?

I had some shockers in my youth (clones as couldn’t afford a Fender) but in the last few decades CNC technology is so accurate it’s pretty much impossible to make a really horrendous instrument. QC can be the downfall but I have picked up some second hand bargains that took less than an hour to turn into really nice playing instruments. Not just from Fender.

Indonesia, Korea and Mexico are knocking out huge numbers of instruments a year. Most are really good. Some slip through the QC net and can make for great bargains. After all it’s just two bits of wood bolted together with some very basic electrics. As long as the CNC machine has been given the right info beforehand there isn’t the level of creativity or skill involved that a boutique luthier would offer.

As far as I am aware the much appreciated G&L tribute series and the Squier instruments that can get some criticism are (or were) both produced by Cort in Indonesia. I don’t know the full story of Cort or how they make instruments but to guarantee consistency and keep costs low I suspect that the same machines are used for both brands and their is a “menu” like range of options for things like woods used for the body/neck, hardware, paint etc that is agreed with G&L / Fender etc based on the price point of the range of instrument.

 

Its highly likely that the same guys working in teams will be producing the instruments for a variety of brands from Ibanez to ESP as well as Corts own brands.

Edited December 3, 2022 by tegs07

[DGBass]

To answer the OP's original post, ie. where is the value in a USA Fender I can only add that there is just something extra built in thats worth it, especially in the standards. I can't speak for every model year however my own experience of buying a USA Standard  as it was called back in the late 90's has been exemplary. Fender got back to their roots about this time after a few odd tangents in the eighties. The build quality on my USA standard is superb, materials, finish, playability and tone all make for a great and very reliable bass. I've owned it for nearly 25 years now and the neck has never moved, its only needed one fret level in that time and I'm told by my tech the frets will last for sometime yet. I never thought back then i'd still be using it to this day and its become my go to bass for gigging and almost and old friend. 

I've owned squiers, players, antoria's, ibanez's etc over the years and while I've never owned a bass that wasn't giggable, none have felt so comfortable and reliable as my late 90's USA Standard. For me the investment back then was well worth it and if I was starting out again, I would save up and grab an American Standard without hesitation. If I'd got one to start with, it may have saved me from years of being lost on a gear quest before I finally got my USA Standard, and of course a a fair bit of cash🙂    

[Tim2291]

11 hours ago, DGBass said:

If I'd got one to start with, it may have saved me from years of being lost on a gear quest before I finally got my USA Standard, and of course a a fair bit of cash🙂    

Ah, this is the age old question though, would it have saved you any money or would you have actually ended up with something else? I would argue that your years of experimenting with other instruments developed your taste to the USA Standard, whereas if you had started with the USA Standard your tastes may have developed to a different instrument! 

[jd56hawk]

Well, people are paying $1,600 for MIMs so...

As for worth, they're obviously worth big money to some, but I wouldn't buy one.

I do own two very nice Squiers, and two exceptional G&Ls, but I still haven't heard any compelling reasons to go Fender instead.

Edited December 5, 2022 by jd56hawk

[Machines]

21 minutes ago, jd56hawk said:

 

[sirmuppet]

I'll chime in on this since I own a few Fenders. 

 

It's my go to brand of bass. Most music stores carry them and you pretty much know what you're getting. Spare parts are easy to get hold of. If you're buying blind online then resale will be better than on most other brands. If you find the model that speaks to you and you're happy to part with the cash then yeah it's worth it.

 

Recently I bought a MIM jaguar for just over £1400. As crazy as it sounds stay with me on this. I'd been following particular bass player and they have custom made Jaguars. For years I wanted one in bright pink but alas no signature model and no bass in this colour. Then after he was getting pestered time again again asking if Fender would release a signature model he went to Fender and asked how many he'd have to order to have them made. Answer was a minimum of 50. I missed out on the first run but got one in the second. Had to buy it from the states so shipping and import on top came to a little over £1400. On paper, it seems mental but to me I have a great playing bass that I've wanted for a long time, something a little rare and it means something to me. So to me, it's worth it. That's just one example of a Fender I own. I mean my USA standard cost me £999 brand new and that was my go to since I got it in 2017. That was worth it and has paid for itself time and again in gigs I've played with it. 

 

If something from Fender came up that I wanted and I felt I could part with the cash for it, sure I'd say it was worth it but to someone else that might not be the case. So it's very much an individual opinion. 

 

[sirmuppet]

11 minutes ago, Machines said:

 

 

You're not wrong 😆

[DGBass]

5 hours ago, Tim2291 said:

Ah, this is the age old question though, would it have saved you any money or would you have actually ended up with something else? I would argue that your years of experimenting with other instruments developed your taste to the USA Standard, whereas if you had started with the USA Standard your tastes may have developed to a different instrument! 

With the P-Bass, I'm sure it would have saved me money tbh. I knew it was a keeper the day I bought it, it just felt quality. If that had been the case when I was starting out I'm sure I wouldn't have strayed off the path as much or suffered attacks of GAS( I had a major affair with EB and pre-EB stingrays for a number of years ). I also have an American Standard Jazz Bass, its only ten years old and I also knew that was a keeper the day I bought it. Again, it just had that quality feel. I would say in its case, it was probably more years of experimenting with other JB instruments to find a keeper( i've owned 8 jazz basses of various makes and as a lefty there is a more limited choice anyway) That journey eventually developed into an American Standard Jazz. It took a while, but I have two really nice reliable, great sounding and comfortable to play quality USA Fenders and I have no desire to own anything else.  I also don't need anything else tbh as both instruments cover all my requirements really well. I can tell you thats a very happy place to be 🙂

[Lozz196]

I get what you mean @DGBass, the first US Fender I bought, well it just had a greater feel of solidity to it that none of the previous Mex or Squiers had. It’s difficult to define but it just felt more substantial. 

[Quilly]

I bought a Fender Precision 2 years ago, A Mex player, I think it cost about €750.

Worth every penny IMO, a lovely looking, sounding and playing bass...and you always have the resale value. 

[crazycloud]

On 03/12/2022 at 19:29, tegs07 said:

Maybe it’s an era thing?

Nope. Trading instruments was a hobby for many years, so I got to try a lot, MIA/J/M. Still have 3 dozen or so basses, and not one Fender. Almost all are overrated and overpriced with the best being MIJ and lawsuit clones.

[Chaddy]

On 25/11/2022 at 14:03, Chienmortbb said:

I was just drooling over a white Aerodyne Precision and wondered if it is worth £1300? TO create context, I bought a Black Aerodyne jazz bass as a personal import from Japan in 2003. It cost me just over £400 plus about £75 in duties and charges. Was that worth it? Yes they were going for £1000 here and I love that bass. Since then, I have bought and sold a number of basses costing less than that, and each one was more than gigable. I am currently gigging a Marcus Miller M2 at £270 from Thomann, cheaper than a decent Sqeuir*. My third bass and again very gigable is a Peavey P bass. It cost £50 2nd hand and has a superb neck. So what are Fender, especially USA ones, worth?

 

* deliberate misspelling of a Fender missspelling

Have a deeks at The Charvel's mate, 12 inch radius neck and nice body build quality by Fender Mexico . Terrible pre-amp though. Prices have came right down...Under 700 quid

I tried everything from low range to high range and these sat above and beyond. 

 

[Ralf1e]

On 05/12/2022 at 15:33, Machines said:

 

I had one of those and a Dyane. Such a shame they rotted so well. Fabulous cars for dragging large amounts of speakers about

[jd56hawk]

On 05/12/2022 at 10:33, Machines said:

 

I actually like that!

[Vanheusen77]

I think they are worth it. A lot of people compare prices with prices 10 years ago and think everything is overpriced. Stingrays for example cost about 50% more than Fender US, at least here in Sweden. Sure there are always chinese or indonesian brands that are cheaper (Harley benton etc.).

Edited December 7, 2022 by Vanheusen77

[Brother Jones]

I suspect there is a really serious strategic problem for companies like Fender. One analogy is hifi equipment. 

 

One of Britain's most famous hifi brands, Naim Audio, makes integrated amps, preamps and power amps that they have been able to service over the years. As a result, their entire output for several decades is still out there doing great service, with a thriving second hand market. 

 

Fender have similar issues. If your products are good enough that they don't end up as landfill - or the opposite, actually appreciate in value - sooner or later that is going to affect your new product. 

 

If you know what you're doing in either case, buying new makes less and less sense as the years go by. 

 

This is especially true in sectors where either technology has simply ceased to deliver something that is of greater value (possibly the case with hifi amps), or where the vintage nature of the product is the secret to its appreciation (Fender basses). 

[jd56hawk]

Seriously, I'd like to meet anyone wiling to spend $1,000 on a Player Series bass just to ask them why they'd even consider spending that kind of money on one of these.

[Sarlscharisma]

I've had many very good non-Fender basses like Serek, Rics, Stringrays and my latest purchase being the AVII JB 66.  I always feel at home with a USA fender, which just has that fit and feel that I can instantly bond with.  Yes, there are some USA made lemons out there but when you get a decent one they just dial in that tone whatever amp you twin with.  I have a had a Japan Jazz model and a Mexican P bass and found they never quite had that finish and sound of an American Fender.

 

The new crop of AVIIs are so exciting and shows they are listening to customers.  The AV 54 P, Telecaster Deluxes, Telecaster Customer, Thinlines...all the old classics made pretty much to original specs.

 

Yes, prices are ridiculous but these price increases cut across all brands 

[T-Bay]

On 08/12/2022 at 14:19, jd56hawk said:

Seriously, I'd like to meet anyone wiling to spend $1,000 on a Player Series bass just to ask them why they'd even consider spending that kind of money on one of these.

There is a gorgeous hand made Bass on here over the last few days that is for sale at about a third of its new price. It was a bargain but had no interest and the price was dropped about 20% and it still hasn’t sold. Whether you like it, or understand it, there is something about Fenders that people like and that makes them a ‘safe buy’. I have dabbled with a range of stuff but always come back to a Jazz. My Ultra is just the best bass I have ever owned. And it should be given the price! But the prices have gone up so much I could probably break even after a couple of years of ownership.

[jd56hawk]

15 hours ago, T-Bay said:

There is a gorgeous hand made Bass on here over the last few days that is for sale at about a third of its new price. It was a bargain but had no interest and the price was dropped about 20% and it still hasn’t sold. Whether you like it, or understand it, there is something about Fenders that people like and that makes them a ‘safe buy’. I have dabbled with a range of stuff but always come back to a Jazz. My Ultra is just the best bass I have ever owned. And it should be given the price! But the prices have gone up so much I could probably break even after a couple of years of ownership.

Yes, I'm well aware that many people are drawn to the Fender name...simply based on that name on the headstock.

Doesn't change what I think about the Player line.

I've played quite a few and they're not bad, they're just not that good...and they're simply unappealing when compared to so many other similar basses. Sure, many will claim looks aren't important, but that's ridiculous.

Occasionally you'll see a special Player bass, the Green Burst is okay, but it seems Fender saves the more attractive finishes for certain USA models.

By the way, I do own these, and wouldn't trade either for a Fender player Jazz, even if Fender threw in a Rumble 500.

[jd56hawk]

16 hours ago, T-Bay said:

There is a gorgeous hand made Bass on here over the last few days that is for sale at about a third of its new price. It was a bargain but had no interest and the price was dropped about 20% and it still hasn’t sold. Whether you like it, or understand it, there is something about Fenders that people like and that makes them a ‘safe buy’. I have dabbled with a range of stuff but always come back to a Jazz. My Ultra is just the best bass I have ever owned. And it should be given the price! But the prices have gone up so much I could probably break even after a couple of years of ownership.

Something like this is another story entirely, of course.

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by jd56hawk

[T-Bay]

Just now, jd56hawk said:

Something like this is another story entirely, of course.

That looks suspiciously like an Ultra in cobra blue. Same as mine. I am biased but it’s a thing of beauty and sounds amazing.

[Bassfinger]

9 hours ago, jd56hawk said:

Yes, I'm well aware that many people are drawn to the Fender name...simply based on that name on the headstock.

Doesn't change what I think about the Player line.

I've played quite a few and they're not bad, they're just not that good...and they're simply unappealing when compared to so many other similar basses. Sure, many will claim looks aren't important, but that's ridiculous.

Occasionally you'll see a special Player bass, the Green Burst is okay, but it seems Fender saves the more attractive finishes for certain USA models.

By the way, I do own these, and wouldn't trade either for a Fender player Jazz, even if Fender threw in a Rumble 500.

 I'll probably be run out of town for heresy but I prefer the finish, sound and price of the Squier CVs to their Player Series equivalents.  I'm not at all against MIM's and currently have one on the fleet, I just find the Players a bit lukewarm compared to the often cheaper alternatives.