Report on Music Streaming Services

[PaulWarning]

The Competition and Markets Authority have released their report into music streaming services, not good news for the pitiful rate that artists get, not surprising really, the public (like me) are getting a cracking deal at the expense of the recording artist.

As our singers wife pointed out the other week, when we were discussing poor album sales at gigs, hardly anybody buys CD's anymore.

It's unlikely, that we as a band, we will release any more albums,  we'd struggle to even recoup the cost of recording and production.

 

edit, forgot the link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/music-streaming-report-published

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by PaulWarning

[neepheid]

2 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

The Competition and Markets Authority have released their report into music streaming services, not good news for the pitiful rate that artists get, not surprising really, the public (like me) are getting a cracking deal at the expense of the recording artist.

As our singers wife pointed out the other week, when we were discussing poor album sales at gigs, hardly anybody buys CD's anymore.

It's unlikely, that we as a band, we will release any more albums,  we'd struggle to even recoup the cost of recording and production.

 

 

We don't do it for the money, it's all about the posterity.

[PaulWarning]

22 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

We don't do it for the money, it's all about the posterity.

Not sure whether that's a jovial reply or not.

we've already got 3 albums out, that's enough posterity for me 😊, we don't expect to make money just recover costs

[neepheid]

Just now, PaulWarning said:

Not sure whether that's a jovial reply or not.

we've already got 3 albums out, that's enough posterity for me 😊, we don't expect to make money just recover costs

 

It was a serious reply - there's absolutely no money in it.  We're far too old and far too ugly to "make it" so we just make some tunes, record them and send them out into the ether to absolutely zero plaudits because we must suffer for our art - and we're terrible at convincing other people to suffer our art...

[mr4stringz]

5 minutes ago, neepheid said:

It was a serious reply - there's absolutely no money in it.  We're far too old and far too ugly to "make it" so we just make some tunes, record them and send them out into the ether to absolutely zero plaudits because we must suffer for our art - and we're terrible at convincing other people to suffer our art...

x 2!

 

 

[NAS Bass]

Many pros and cons but when I weight it all up I can only come to the conclusion that the 'digital revolution' has been something of a disaster for musicians. 

[cheddatom]

we can produce our own product cheaper than ever, and we can reach a wider audience than ever, we just have to convince people to buy direct rather than (or as well as) streaming

 

We gig loads, and sell loads of CDs and vinyl at gigs. All our albums are on streaming services but not many people listen at all. I can think of a few reasons:

• all the fans have the physical product and prefer that
• all the fans are old and scared of streaming/technology
• the fans just like the gigs, and buy the music to support the band, rather than listen to

[Dad3353]

10 minutes ago, NAS Bass said:

Many pros and cons but when I weight it all up I can only come to the conclusion that the 'digital revolution' has been something of a disaster for musicians. 

 

As was mechanisation for working horses. A sad fact of Life, maybe, but the wheel turns. Up until very recent times (early 20th century..?), recording sound was pretty nigh impossible; all music was 'live' or not at all. The sales of printed scores was doubtless more than today, but hardly a main revenue stream for the composers, and nothing at all for the musicians who played these scores. It's all been a very recent bubble; things are moving on, like it or not. Farriers had to become something else when horses were no longer mainstream. 

[PaulWarning]

4 minutes ago, cheddatom said:

we can produce our own product cheaper than ever, and we can reach a wider audience than ever, we just have to convince people to buy direct rather than (or as well as) streaming

 

We gig loads, and sell loads of CDs and vinyl at gigs. All our albums are on streaming services but not many people listen at all. I can think of a few reasons:

• all the fans have the physical product and prefer that
• all the fans are old and scared of streaming/technology
• the fans just like the gigs, and buy the music to support the band, rather than listen to

Headsticks have done very well and are reasonable big on the gigging circuit, we're not in that league.

We easily covered costs on our first 3 albums, which is all we wanted, we recently remixed our first album, , added some live tracks, we were never happy with the original recording and it had long since sold out,  we have struggled to sell the 100 copies we needed to recoup the costs, which is what prompted the singer's wife's (too many apostrophes Dad?) comment.

We can still sell T shirts though 😃

[neepheid]

We are at that crossroads at the moment - there is disagreement in the band as to whether or not to bother making CDs any more.  I could take it or leave it, one is really keen to make CDs, one is dead set against it and the other two's opinions are undefined at this time.

 

It looks like we'll do a minimum run of CDs (and accept that the unit cost of them makes it minimally profitable at the unit cost level) just so that they exist.  We save costs by doing all our own artwork (which means it won't suck, but it won't be amazing either).

 

The album is already up digitally - not that anyone cares - just another voice whispering into the cacophony of music out there.  It just feels so grubby and makes my skin crawl to go all HEY, YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO OUR MUSIC BECAUSE IT'S AWESOME, so it's hardly going to light up the charts, is it?

[Eldon Tyrell]

30 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

We can still sell T shirts though 😃

Yes, bands are turning into "glorified T-shirt companies":

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/oct/21/im-with-the-brand-how-merch-saved-the-music-industry 

 

 

[wateroftyne]

A couple of bands I’m in have a pile of great unrecorded songs. If we put them to tape properly, we could no doubt recoup our costs if we were still in CD world.

 

But we’re not, and we can’t afford to lose money, so they stay unrecorded. 
 

That. Is. A. Disgrace.

Edited November 29, 2022 by wateroftyne

[petebassist]

People keep giving me CDs but I don't have a CD player.

Technology's made it easier than ever to record and publish music, at least at the amateur end where I am - prof artists though are getting v slim pickings from streaming services compared to the olden days, but I doubt many people will be going back to tapes & CDs.

 

 

 

[PaulWarning]

59 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

A couple of bands I’m in have a pile of great unrecorded songs. If we put them to tape properly, we could no doubt recoup our costs if we were still in CD world.

 

But we’re not, and we can’t afford to lose money, so they stay unrecorded. 
 

That. Is. A. Disgrace.

these are my thoughts as well, the difference is I can't motivate myself to write new material and send hours learning and honing them with the band if we're never going to record and release them

[asingardenof]

4 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

It's unlikely, that we as a band, we will release any more albums,  we'd struggle to even recoup the cost of recording and production.

I very rarely buy CDs but am happy to buy digital downloads if I would have bought it on CD in the olden days, either from Bandcamp for preference or from Amazon if BC isn't an option. It's sad that people either can't afford or aren't prepared to put their hands in their pockets any more beyond a monthly streaming subscription.

Edited November 29, 2022 by asingardenof

[PaulWarning]

17 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

I very rarely buy CDs but am happy to buy digital downloads if I would have bought it on CD in the olden days, either from Bandcamp for preference or from Amazon if BC isn't an option. It's sad that people either can't afford or aren't prepared to put their hands in their pockets any more beyond a monthly streaming subscription.

if it's a small band I do this, but we get very few of these and as I found out, Bandcamp take download payments against any physical sales that have gone through them

[asingardenof]

34 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

if it's a small band I do this, but we get very few of these and as I found out, Bandcamp take download payments against any physical sales that have gone through them

Presumably because if you buy a physical track/album through BC you get access to the download as well?

[PaulWarning]

Just now, asingardenof said:

Presumably because if you buy a physical track/album through BC you get access to the download as well?

I don't think so, what happens is when they pass on an album sale they debit your account with a % of the sale, then when they get a download they take the amount you owe them off before passing on any that's left 

[mattbass6]

7 hours ago, neepheid said:

We are at that crossroads at the moment - there is disagreement in the band as to whether or not to bother making CDs any more.  I could take it or leave it, one is really keen to make CDs, one is dead set against it and the other two's opinions are undefined at this time.

 

It looks like we'll do a minimum run of CDs (and accept that the unit cost of them makes it minimally profitable at the unit cost level) just so that they exist.  We save costs by doing all our own artwork (which means it won't suck, but it won't be amazing either).

 

The album is already up digitally - not that anyone cares - just another voice whispering into the cacophony of music out there.  It just feels so grubby and makes my skin crawl to go all HEY, YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO OUR MUSIC BECAUSE IT'S AWESOME, so it's hardly going to light up the charts, is it?

If you don’t shout out loud about your music, who will? People may be very happy that you did ☺️

[Bassfinger]

We're thinking of trying to bullpois our way onto Britons Garotte Talent as 'The Lockdown Dads'.  Even if we didn't get very far the notoriety would bring in more shekels appearing on This Morning and the like as it would from selling our recorded music.

[WalMan]

We did a short (but probably still too many) CD run for my main band's EP. They go in one's & two's at gigs and were probably more us (me) being an old f@rt that wanted to have a physical disk. Also sold for a set price on BandCamp and on streaming services through Distrokid. Had a few sales from d/l's and the princely sum of $8 gross for around 2000 streams in the first few months.

 

Cheesy Christmas single coming later this week 

 

By contrast for the prog project one of the guitarists & I just released went to Bandcamp as "name your price" and to streamers. No numbers for the latter but a few sale for the former.

 

I doubt I'll be retiring on either

Edited November 29, 2022 by WalMan

[WinterMute]

13 hours ago, mattbass6 said:

If you don’t shout out loud about your music, who will? People may be very happy that you did ☺️

This is called marketing, everyone who makes money off a product that isn't in some way iconic does it... 😀

 

There's simply too much noise in the signal to find good music by accident these days, almost everything new I've liked has been recommended, often by the good people of this very parish.

 

I'm lucky enough to have the skills and the tech to do 90% of our production work at home, we go to a friendly studio for a long weekend to record drums, everything else is in-house. It's a hobby, not a profession any more, and like all hobbies, you have to put some time and money into it. Some people paint, some knit mittens, I record songs with my mates, it's as good a way to pass the time and spend the money as any I think. It's about the journey and not the destination now.

 

Our last album is up on the usual streaming services, we did 50 CD's for friends and family and, as someone else on the thread said, to make it real. It's cool, we're not getting "discovered" and no-ones going to offer us a support slot on a world tour, it's good to be able to make music for fun and not have the pressure of trying to be pro.

 

That said, it's always a buzz when someone listens and gets in touch to comment, but I feel for those of us trying to offer something to the genuine fans to listen to.

Edited November 30, 2022 by WinterMute

[Cat Burrito]

I've played on a few releases and whilst I don't get involved in the funding side, I doubt that any of them have recouped the costs. The official line is always that music is an artistic statement, which is a nice way of us accepting we're being ripped off. All my bigger releases have been "critically acclaimed" in the national press but with studio costs and pressing coupled with the fact that people stream everything these days, it's never going to pay the bills. I absolutely hate the fact that the CEOs of companies like Spotify pay artists so little and always try and buy directly from Bandcamp with the smaller acts I like. 

 

Two things from the last few weeks that have saddened me; 1) a news report saying that younger artists were giving up on music as it doesn't pay the bills and 2) this latest trend on social media of sharing an imaginary Spotify festival based on your listening. I think artists have always been ripped off since the dawn of rock n roll but the reality is that the rich are getting richer and the actual creative talents are not getting a fair slice of the pie. 

[Beedster]

Might be wrong but I always got the sense that even the most successful musicians throughout the vast majority of the last 2000 years lived in relative poverty, from minstrels to composers to virtuosos. Their art was used by people either with or seeking more money and more influence, the church, royalty, military, politicians and latterly the entertainment and recording industries, but that money and influence rarely dripped down to the musicians themselves, no matter how famous they were then or are today. The 1970's to 2000 era of musicians acquiring huge wealth was probably just a blip in historical terms.  

[PaulWarning]

47 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Might be wrong but I always got the sense that even the most successful musicians throughout the vast majority of the last 2000 years lived in relative poverty, from minstrels to composers to virtuosos. Their art was used by people either with or seeking more money and more influence, the church, royalty, military, politicians and latterly the entertainment and recording industries, but that money and influence rarely dripped down to the musicians themselves, no matter how famous they were then or are today. The 1970's to 2000 era of musicians acquiring huge wealth was probably just a blip in historical terms.  

Ed Sheeran, Taylor Swift etc seem to do ok, I think it's only ever been the ones at the top of the food chain make big money, most live on scraps