Where do you put your thumb?

[Nail Soup]

The large majority of the time, my thumb is clamping a pick to my finger.

Never is my thumb banging the strings slap style.

 

Although I'm happy to pick with no anchor, I feel I need to when attempting finger style. Sometimes I anchor two fingers under the pick up and play with the thumb.

But when actually using fingers I anchor by clamping forearm against the body of the guitar while my thumb acts like a spare part.

 

So basically I have not developed any good finger-style technique.

 

[peteb]

8 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 

Find me a teacher teaching that, I've had about 8 over the course of decades and not one mentioned or advised it once. They all worked in the business, session work for names/broadcasters etc.

 

All I can say that I'm glad that I didn't go to your teachers. To be fair, if I was teaching a beginner I would get them to keep their thumb behind the neck. But as they progress they need to develop both right hand and left hand muting techniques. Muting seems to be a very personal thing and you need to find out what works for you. For most electric bass players, that isn't necessarily strictly adhering to classical guitar technique. 

 

[SteveXFR]

7 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

The large majority of the time, my thumb is clamping a pick to my finger.

Never is my thumb banging the strings slap style.

 

Although I'm happy to pick with no anchor, I feel I need to when attempting finger style. Sometimes I anchor two fingers under the pick up and play with the thumb.

But when actually using fingers I anchor by clamping forearm against the body of the guitar while my thumb acts like a spare part.

 

So basically I have not developed any good finger-style technique.

 

 

I'm exactly. Perfectly happy with a pick and will never slap. 

I do want to learn to play without the pick though 

[Grimalkin]

7 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

All I can say that I'm glad that I didn't go to your teachers. To be fair, if I was teaching a beginner I would get them to keep their thumb behind the neck. But as they progress they need to develop both right hand and left hand muting techniques. Muting seems to be a very personal thing and you need to find out what works for you. For most electric bass players, that isn't necessarily strictly adhering to classical guitar technique. 

 

 

I think you are trying to validate poor technique because one guy didn't mention it...

 

Find me a tutor teaching that as a common muting technique.

[Stub Mandrel]

Fact is, there is no 'right' way to play the bass. So many of the sounds and styles we play demand different techniques.

 

There are habits or approaches that may slow you down, produce a less 'clean' sound or even be prone to muscle strain etc.

 

But there are no laws, only a wide range of options some of which will suit a particular combination of person, music and instrument better.

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

13 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

Find me a tutor teaching that as a common muting technique.

 

 

[peteb]

15 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 

I think you are trying to validate poor technique because one guy didn't mention it...

 

Find me a tutor teaching that as a common muting technique.

 

So me, Billy Sheehan, Bobby Vega, Andy Fraser, Joe Dart and countless others have poor technique but your tutors are right. OK... 

 

[Grimalkin]

3 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

 

 

A recognised qualified tutor, not this...

[peteb]

Enough of this... 

 

[Grimalkin]

1 minute ago, peteb said:

 

So me, Billy Sheehan, Bobby Vega, Andy Fraser, Joe Dart and countless others have poor technique but your tutors are right. OK... 

 

 

I can name you far more pro bassists who don't.

[Grimalkin]

An exception rather than the rule.

[SteveXFR]

Surely if Lemmy did it then it can't be wrong. 

[Paul S]

Marvellous, a second person for my ignore list.  I've been here since 2008 and only this year needed to do it.  I guess the idea of 'agree to disagree' has left the building.

[Stub Mandrel]

35 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 

A recognised qualified tutor, not this...

 

🙄

[Grimalkin]

Is it amateur dramatics night?

[Downunderwonder]

23 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

My bass teacher told me that muting the E string with the left thumb over the top of the fret board is poor technique. Obviously I do it all the time. Why is it bad?

It puts you at a reach disadvantage with the fingers and you're making work for yourself to reposition your form when available reach is insufficient. Probably too late to do anything about it now.

[Bassfinger]

Just because someone is a tutor, even one accredited to something or other, does not mean they're any cop at it. Even if they are superb, they aren't god, they don't get to say what is correct, and any that are bold enough to say so are likely of a closed mindset and will be slow to progress themselves, if at all.

 

The mass produced electric bass is a relatively recent innovation. That being the case, who is anyone to say what is right or wrong? Not me. Not Geddy Lee. Not Derek from the small ads who is advertising his bass lessons.

 

I've had formal musical training - not on the bass - and without being immodest I can truthfully say that I progressed (before smashing my elbow) far beyond the abilities of my guitar tutor, and despite that still wouldn't deign to tell even the newest guitarist what is correct or otherwise. I might say, "give this a try", or "have you thought about doing it that way, see if it works for you?", but I am in no moral position to tell anyone that is the correct method and thus the only one worthy of consideration. I'm just not that arrogant.

 

Watch, listen, learn, try it, practice it, critique it against that which you're trying to achieve, and then either adopt it, modify it, or discard it.  None of us should be blind to progressing our playing by learning, and none of us should rigidly accept convention either. None of us should suppose that just because we favour a certain way of playing that it is "correct".  

 

If it gives you the sound you're after, if you can do it and make it work, if it doesnt hinder some other aspect of your playing, and if it doesn't give you an RSI, then it's correct. Simple as that.

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Bassfinger
Sneezed

[Grimalkin]

Inverted wrist from 11.43, 12.39 to see what happens to your finger span and mobility when the thumb moves up:

 

 

[BreadBin]

8 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

Inverted wrist from 11.43, 12.39 to see what happens to your finger span and mobility when the thumb moves up:

 

 

Listen - everyone knows you are technically correct. However being technically correct in art is kind of missing the point.

A large number of really great musicians play the 'wrong' way some or all of the time, yet they make music they love and countless other people enjoy. Art comes from the heart - the most enjoyable stuff comes from those who are creating it with authenticity and feeling. Most folks on here are inspired by players with unconventional techniques - it's that lack of conformity that makes them interesting. 

E.g. Geddy Lee, Mark King, Lemmy, Paul McCartney, Flea - all hugely popular, cited by many as the reason they play. There are many more but you should get the point...

It's far more important to create in a way that works for you, if that's the technically correct way than good on you, that doesn't give you the right to force your opinion on everyone else. 

[Bassfinger]

2 hours ago, BreadBin said:

 

A large number of really great musicians play the 'wrong' way some or all of the time, yet they make music they love and countless other people enjoy. 

Elton John, makes it up by ear and breaks half the rules in the book.

 

Mark Knopfler, freely admits his technique would give any tutor nightmares yet his playing and songwriting send shivers down my spine.

 

Ian Anderson, defies established convention on flute, bass, guitar, mandolin, bouzouki, penny whistle, claghorn (google it), drums and keyboard, but doesn't seem any the worse for it.

 

Lemmy, well...he was Lemmy and was utterly unapologetic about it.

 

Seems to me that not holding a digit in a certain manner did nothing to fetter their rampant creativity, and in many cases may have even facilitated it as it has with me.

 

The sound a musician makes is what ultimately matters, and if they can get the sound they want by not following a 'correct' method that someone has only invented since 1951 then why the hell shouldn't they?

Edited December 18, 2022 by Bassfinger

[Grimalkin]

3 hours ago, BreadBin said:

It's far more important to create in a way that works for you, if that's the technically correct way than good on you, that doesn't give you the right to force your opinion on everyone else. 

 

It's terrible isn't it, all those tutors forcing correct technique upon their students. 

[Grimalkin]

Never mind experts, we don't even need teachers anymore...

[SteveXFR]

There's a lot of very famous pro bassists who have made enormous amounts of money and made some great music playing with what some may call bad technique. Lemmy, Peter Hook, JJ Burnel and Steve Harris all had some techniques that weren't as per the textbooks.

Imagine if Larry Graham had stuck with the technique that his teacher taught him rather than trying something different. 

 

[Grimalkin]

15 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

There's a lot of very famous pro bassists who have made enormous amounts of money and made some great music playing with what some may call bad technique. Lemmy, Peter Hook, JJ Burnel and Steve Harris all had some techniques that weren't as per the textbooks.

Imagine if Larry Graham had stuck with the technique that his teacher taught him rather than trying something different. 

 

 

Using outliers as justification for poor technique. Many were self educated, that's how they end up with that technique. Lemmy as an accomplished bassist? I don't think so...

[peteb]

25 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

There's a lot of very famous pro bassists who have made enormous amounts of money and made some great music playing with what some may call bad technique. Lemmy, Peter Hook, JJ Burnel and Steve Harris all had some techniques that weren't as per the textbooks.

Imagine if Larry Graham had stuck with the technique that his teacher taught him rather than trying something different. 

 

 

I am all for people learning a 'proper' orthodox technique when they start out and if you are new to playing an electric bass then, yes, you should learn playing with your thumb behind the neck. Once you have that down and it is second nature, then you can look at times when it works better (for you) to ignore that technique. So when you are playing a major scale you will have your thumb behind the neck, but when you are playing, say Jeremy by Pearl Jam (a random example that you will probably know), then you will probably use your thumb to mute the open E string while you play the riff (basically a box pattern with hammer-ons) with the open A. 

 

I would hope that a good teacher, when teaching anyone other than complete beginners, would accept and encourage that. If anyone is going to tell me that Steve Vai, Van Halen & Hendrix have bad technique (and in the bass word Bobby Vega & Billy Sheehan et al), then I am just going to laugh at them.  

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by peteb