Where do you put your thumb?

[Stub Mandrel]

Bad boy Jaco. We knew you had crap technique all along...

 

 

 

 

And Victor! Go to the back of the class!

 

 

 

 

So glad there are better bass players out there than these guys...

[PaulThePlug]

Thumbs on top is one thing... but knots on top is another!.. Hat is better... #topnot

[Cato]

2 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

 

At The Guitar Institute in the '90s, there were around 13 other bassists at that time. Everyone wanted to come out on top, that was unspoken friendly competition. All I'm asking for, is a demonstration of technique, nothing more.

 

Presumably there was some sort of mutually agreed on points system by which you determined who was best?

[Bassfinger]

58 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Bad boy Jaco. We knew you had crap technique all along...

 

 

 

 

And Victor! Go to the back of the class!

 

 

 

 

So glad there are better bass players out there than these guys...

 

Hendrix used to do it on the geetar too, and I'm given to understand he was quite a good player. 

 

Rules are one thing, but the rule is incompatible with thumb over the top to deliberately rotate that hand and put the fingers in a better position for outward bends and pull-off's on the high strings - watch Hendrix in slow-mo and you can see his hand rotating arou d the neck.  If people can ignore these rules to make another technique accessible then I would suggest that the rules need a few exceptions incorporating to bring them up to date.

 

And no, I don't do it myself because I was taught not to and that was ingrained into me at a young age. Nevertheless, I don't have any god given right to dictate how other musicians must play so if someone else can make something good happen by not following this rule then all power to them because that's how new sounde and techniques are born. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bassfinger

[peteb]

6 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

 

Hendrix used to do it on the geetar too, and I'm given to understand he was quite a good player. 

 

Rules are one thing, but the rule is incompatible with thumb over the top to deliberately rotate that hand and put the fingers in a better position for outward bends and pull-off's on the high strings - watch Hendrix in slow-mo and you can see his hand rotating arou d the neck.  If people can ignore these rules to make another technique accessible then I would suggest that the rules need a few exceptions incorporating to bring them up to date.

 

And no, I don't do it myself because I was taught not to and that was ingrained into me at a young age. Nevertheless, I don't have any god given right to dictate how other musicians must play so if someone else can make something good happen by not following this rule then all power to them because that's how new sounde and techniques are born. 

 

That is kinda the point I as trying to make before I started getting challenged to a bass duel at the OK coral...! 

 

[Ralf1e]

8 hours ago, mario_buoninfante said:

I think we might be getting a little bit out of topic here.
We all have our ideas, believes, etc. and they are all valid (within reason ), but I feel like we should probably backtrack a bit and get back to talking about "where we position our fretting hand thumb" and less about "whatever I do with my thumb is better than what others do" (paraphrasing here).
I think the goal should be sharing experiences more than imposing ideas.
So, let's share and then people on the other side will do whatever they want with the info.

I agree rather than agro!

My thumb above the joint opposite the base of the nail goes against centre of the neck it gives me a comfortable, relaxed, strong enough grip and is not tiring. I do the same for guitar chords.

I never wrap my hand around the neck like a club.

Works for me. I think I learned it in the ultimate guitar book some years ago. Mind you I also think I didn't learn a lot of other things from that book that I should have.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Ralf1e

[TimR]

10 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

Hendrix used to do it on the geetar too, and I'm given to understand he was quite a good player. 

I'm pretty sure he set his guitar on fire using lighter fluid as well. I've never seen anyone teach that as a technique. 

 

Really you should be rubbing two sticks together to start fires. 

[Munurmunuh]

The idea that there is one set place for the thumb requires the idea that the relationship between a thumb and the rest of its hand is always the same. My fingers are medium length at best, but the thumb seems to have come from a different set of gauges.

 

Except when playing a neck with a very deep profile (eg a BB424) my left thumb has to be allowed to wander around, keeping itself out of trouble as best it can. If I park my right thumb on the pickup in the classic prissy white boy style, my first two finger scarcely reach the E string, let alone the rest.

 

So either I have to walk away from bass playing, or the uptight notions of bass playing taught by the Neasden University of Music (formerly World Of Carpets Brent) can do one. 

[ezbass]

The thumb always behind the neck, in both bass and guitar playing, comes from the classical technique, where this was required to exert enough, precise power to make the note sound cleanly (I'm currently learning double bass and I can see the logic in this). The modern, solid instrument can almost be viewed as something totally different and, given that they're not even 100 years old (at least as a mass produced item), techniques are still evolving. If it gets the job done and doesn't hinder progression, then any technique is valid. I will concede that 'correct' (whatever that means) is a good starting place, but if it stifles creativity or is a hinderance, because of physical impairment, then it should not be regarded as the only right and proper way. I'm recently been watching Polyphia videos with Tim Henson and Scottie LePage on guitar and young Mr Henson is classically trained, but what he and LePage are doing is amazing and certainly unconstrained by classical convention.

 

And, to quote Forest Gump, that is all I have to say about that. 

[Grimalkin]

It's the "Validate My Godawful Technique Circle Jerk Thread."

 

Very funny indeed.

[Cato]

11 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

It's the "Validate My Godawful Technique Circle Jerk Thread."

 

Very funny indeed.

 

Looks like your duelling diary is going to be full for a while.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cato

[mario_buoninfante]

well, I guess there's people who just don't give a damn about the fretting hand thumb position...
 

 

[Munurmunuh]

After I had done my music degree at university, I did three years postgraduate performance study at music college (very classical; nothing to do with bass playing).

 

In our first week, the department's deputy head said to us, avoid the coffee shop discussions about technique — excellent advice that we were all too foolish to take. 

[40hz]

This is disappointing to see. Basschat was always above crap like this. Let's not let this descend into being like the 'other' site.

 

Try to be respectful at all times. It's what makes this forum so good.

[WinterMute]

13 hours ago, Bridgehouse said:

In before the thumb lock!

I've got 30 years in Aikido, I know some wicked thumb locks...

[Stub Mandrel]

58 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

It's the "Validate My Godawful Technique Circle Jerk Thread."

 

Very funny indeed.

 

I think you might reflect on why your position has created such a reaction.

 

In essence you are stating that a fret hand thumb anywhere other than on the back of the neck is a signifier of poor technique and a lack of skill.

 

Yet many people accepted as among the most skilled do this.

 

Most move their thumb location according to what they are playing,  which among other things, reduces fatigue and strain.

 

Your view, or at least how you present it, comes across as elitism at best and petty one-upmanship at worst.

 

Of course, given your avoidance of directly countering the more considered objections to your position, it is more than likely you are trolling and laughing you head off at the fluster you have caused.

 

But thank you for getting us to consider what we do and why.

 

Now I'm off to put my thumb where it belongs (is that on the end of my nose or up my bum, you ask...)

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Stub Mandrel
I can't type on my phone properly with my thumb up my fundament.

[Clarky]

From a quick search of google images, the world is littered with bass players whose status and respect is clearly utterly misplaced due to their over-the-neck thumb placement ... in addition to the examples above (Jaco, Victor W etc) there is Stanley Clarke, Jack Bruce, Roger Glover, Geezer Butler, Tim Lefebvre, JJ Burnel etc.

 

Just think what they could have achieved with a few lessons at the Guitar Institute

Edited December 21, 2022 by Clarky

[Grimalkin]

14 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I think you might reflect on why your position has created such a reaction.

 

In essence you are stating that a fret hand thumb anywhere other than on the back of the neck is a signifier of poor technique and a lack of skill.

 

Yet many people accepted as among the most skilled do this.

 

Most move their thumb location according to what they are playing,  which among other things, reduces fatigue and strain.

 

Your view, or at least how you present it, comes across as elitism at best and petty one-upmanship at worst.

 

Of course, given your avoidance of directly countering the more considered objections to your position, it is more than likely you are trolling and laughing you head off at the fluster you have caused.

 

But thank you for getting us to consider what we do and why.

 

Now I'm off to put my thumb where it belongs (is that on the end of my nose or up my bum, you ask...)

 

 

On 17/12/2022 at 14:28, Grimalkin said:

As poster mario_buoninfante, it isn't a case of absolutes. If you are playing repetitive lines at the bottom end of the neck, the thumb tends to move up the back of the neck to make things more comfortable. Having the thumb centred constantly at the bottom end of the neck, sets up an uncomfortable wrist angle if that's going to be the position for a prolonged time.

 

If you play around the centre of the neck where it widens out, playing say over four frets, the common maj/min scale shape, then you need the span, the arching and the full length of your fingers. My thumb is usually at the centre line of the back of the neck or just below to allow everything forward. Thumb over the top of the neck constricts all of that, plus you are playing on the pads of your fingers not the tips (see Marcus pic) and your fingers tend to fret at an angle, not so much parallel to the fret but across them.

 

If you want to get nimble, you won't make it gripping the neck. The idea is to be free-floating, you'll need less pressure fretting without the grip too.

 

[Paul S]

I put Grimalkin on ignore.  If everyone else does it he will have noone to posture to and, hopefully, disappear back to wherever it was he came from a year ago.  I don't recall there ever being such a disruptive presence.

[fretmeister]

I tend to use the pickup as an anchor, even on my 5 strings.

I mostly play fingers unless I'm singing. Always with a pick when I sing.

For some reason I can't play with fingers and sing at the same time. I've tried for years. The odd bit of backing vocal is ok, but if I'm singing the main parts, then something just disconnects in my brain.

[Dad3353]

Just a reminder...

 

Top-right of every post there is a very discreet button, with three simple dots. This gives access, amongst other functions, to the 'Report' window, in which one may explain, briefly, the reason for the Report (uncouth language, insults, overt political stance and the like...). These Reports come to the attention of the Mods and Admin, and are always read and taken seriously. It's one of the reasons that this Forum is kept so User friendly.

 

Just a reminder. 

[3below]

 In 13 years on BC I have only just found that useful feature in settings,never had the need to. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by 3below

[Ralf1e]

9 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I tend to use the pickup as an anchor, even on my 5 strings.

I mostly play fingers unless I'm singing. Always with a pick when I sing.

For some reason I can't play with fingers and sing at the same time. I've tried for years. The odd bit of backing vocal is ok, but if I'm singing the main parts, then something just disconnects in my brain.

That's interesting. I don't use a pick for bass (although I used to use one for guitar) always my fingers and when I sing I can only sing using the fingers.

So we are different but neither of us is wrong!

Also when I sing some worship leaders get upset because a I have a very powerful in tune voice. oops naughty me.

[ezbass]

26 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I tend to use the pickup as an anchor, even on my 5 strings.

 

Back to the OP, are you some sort of anarchist? 🤣

 

27 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

For some reason I can't play with fingers and sing at the same time. I've tried for years. The odd bit of backing vocal is ok, but if I'm singing the main parts, then something just disconnects in my brain.

It's often very difficult to sing and play bass, because of the counter rhythms between the two (Mark King never fails to amaze me the way he can do it). I used to sing lead on Bowie's China Girl and it took lots and lots of playing and singing at home (and getting it woefully wrong) to finally get that independence between the two. Not sure I can still do it, as I've not needed to play and sing it for a few years.

[Leonard Smalls]

Talking of technique...

A while ago I was talking to a classical piano teacher about jazz. I showed her some live Thelonius Monk playing "Round Midnight" at Newport Jazz fest with Art Blakey and Dizzy Gillespie, and all she was interested in was the fact that he had the wrong hand posture. She couldn't listen to what he was playing, couldn't get over the fact that not only were his hands almost completely flat, the little finger sometimes curved over his 4th finger! She couldn't believe that he'd got away with his terrible technique...

This didn't surprise me, as she's the sort who get apoplectic if Bach is played using the pedal (*), and who take the score along to concerts in order to whinge if there's the slightest deviation.

 

 

*the argument is that Bach never had the loud pedal, so how could it be right to play his music using it? My retort would be that Bach not only didn't have the loud pedal, he didn't have the pianoforte. So to play it on one was also deeply wrong!