Where do you put your thumb?

[deepbass5]

On a 5 string I find it is wedged between the B and E muting both when playing A, D, G.  I seem to change the angle of it for an occasional E so just muting the B. but it don't move much. Can't say i think about it much anymore The B string is my thumb rest if the part requires a lot of notes on the E string.

[Stub Mandrel]

It's striking how we all mute in different ways. I often think muting is the big but little taught skill that reflects your abilities maturing.

[msb]

Note duration is a big part of feel. 
… sustain is highly overrated.

[SteveXFR]

My bass teacher told me that muting the E string with the left thumb over the top of the fret board is poor technique. Obviously I do it all the time. Why is it bad?

[BreadBin]

11 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

My bass teacher told me that muting the E string with the left thumb over the top of the fret board is poor technique. Obviously I do it all the time. Why is it bad?

It was good enough for Lemmy

[SteveXFR]

2 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

It was good enough for Lemmy

 

True but Lemmy used performance enhancing substances

[mario_buoninfante]

I think this is the "old dispute" about the right fretting hand position.
Usually we get taught that the thumb should be positioned "parallel" to the other fingers and should rest between 1st and 2nd finger, it shouldn't go over the top, etc.
I do believe this is actually important. I think it's a good hand position and has a lot of advantages and it should be learned, preferably at the beginning of the journey.
That said, I don't think this is the hand position for all the situations. There's times when this is not the best solution. And it might well be that this doesn't work at all for some.
And, if you look at a lot of players, most have their own fretting position (and so, way of muting), and almost all of them don't stick with one while playing.
Even big big names like Marcus Miller, at times he positions his fretting hand in a way that most might consider not correct.
But, it's all so subjective. What works for one might not work for another.

Edited December 16, 2022 by mario_buoninfante

[Grimalkin]

17 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

My bass teacher told me that muting the E string with the left thumb over the top of the fret board is poor technique. Obviously I do it all the time. Why is it bad?

 

It grips the neck, but more importantly if you take your thumb high at the back of the neck, it takes away the reach length of your fingers at the front. Difficult to arch, difficult to span. Look at the shape of the hand from the side as you move the thumb up way beyond the centre line, you're left with stubs. 

[mario_buoninfante]

Here's the guy putting his thumb over the top.

Well, I'm listening to his music, and I don't feel I can actually say a single word about how he holds his bass! : )

 

 

 

 

[Grimalkin]

A few slappers adopt it on occasion and more, if you're on the thumb, right hand muting is scarce. There's a lot more to do with the left hand muting. 

[Grimalkin]

You can see the score by that pic of Marcus, thumb over, all the finger length moves back. 

[Ralf1e]

2 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

My bass teacher told me that muting the E string with the left thumb over the top of the fret board is poor technique. Obviously I do it all the time. Why is it bad?

Cos your bass teacher was jealous of your big hands

[SteveXFR]

8 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

Cos your bass teacher was jealous of your big hands

 

You know what they say about men with big hands......

 

 

 

 

....they need big gloves

[Grimalkin]

As poster mario_buoninfante, it isn't a case of absolutes. If you are playing repetitive lines at the bottom end of the neck, the thumb tends to move up the back of the neck to make things more comfortable. Having the thumb centred constantly at the bottom end of the neck, sets up an uncomfortable wrist angle if that's going to be the position for a prolonged time.

 

If you play around the centre of the neck where it widens out, playing say over four frets, the common maj/min scale shape, then you need the span, the arching and the full length of your fingers. My thumb is usually at the centre line of the back of the neck or just below to allow everything forward. Thumb over the top of the neck constricts all of that, plus you are playing on the pads of your fingers not the tips (see Marcus pic) and your fingers tend to fret at an angle, not so much parallel to the fret but across them.

 

If you want to get nimble, you won't make it gripping the neck. The idea is to be free-floating, you'll need less pressure fretting without the grip too.

[peteb]

19 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

My bass teacher told me that muting the E string with the left thumb over the top of the fret board is poor technique. Obviously I do it all the time. Why is it bad?

 

It isn't (necessarily) - get a better bass teacher! 

 

[Grimalkin]

Go to any bass tutor worth their salt and they will tell you the same thing.

[peteb]

8 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

Go to any bass tutor worth their salt and they will tell you the same thing.

 

No, they won't - they're not teaching you to play classical guitar. Will they be telling you that Billy Sheehan and countless other top players have bad technique?

 

Obviously, your standard left hand position is going to be with the thumb behind the neck, but there are plenty of situations (such as bending high strings, etc) when it is perfectly acceptable to use your thumb over the top of the fretboard to mute strings, etc. 

 

[Grimalkin]

4 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

No, they won't - they're not teaching you to play classical guitar. Will they be telling you that Billy Sheehan and countless other top players have bad technique?

 

Obviously, your standard left hand position is going to be with the thumb behind the neck, but there are plenty of situations (such as bending high strings, etc) when it is perfectly acceptable to use your thumb over the top of the fretboard to mute strings, etc. 

 

 

Do you think Jamerson's one fingered 'hook' should be taught to everyone because it worked for him?

 

Find me one tutor who recommends playing with your thumb over the neck as the OP describes: "All of the time..."

 

There are occasions for use, I don't and I've never met a tutor who advises muting like that in all the time I've worked as a musician.

[peteb]

17 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 

Do you think Jamerson's one fingered 'hook' should be taught to everyone because it worked for him?

 

Find me one tutor who recommends playing with your thumb over the neck as the OP describes: "All of the time..."

 

There are occasions for use, I don't and I've never met a tutor who advises muting like that in all the time I've worked as a musician.

 

There are plenty of studio bass players (including Sean Hurley) who will play many passages with one finger while recording. This even includes me on the rare occasion that I find myself in a recording studio these days. Bass players will, like electric guitarists, use their thumb over the neck on occasion. I am not saying that you should do it 'all the time', of course not, but it is part of many good players' technique. 

 

I've been gigging for more than forty years and, while I'm not a technical monster in any way, I reckon that I've got a pretty serviceable technique. When I went for a one-off lesson with a well known teacher / session bassist (who also plays for a very well known band, who are genuinely a household name), he pointed out a few things that I ought to look at in my playing. He didn't mention anything about not playing with my thumb over the neck! Nor did he say anything about anchoring my right thumb on the pickup... 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by peteb

[Grimalkin]

1 minute ago, peteb said:

When I went for a one-off lesson with a well known teacher / session bassist (who also plays for a very well known band, who are genuinely a household name), he pointed out a few things that I ought to look at in my playing. He didn't mention anything about not playing with my thumb over the neck! 

 

 

He didn't tell you it was a good idea either, or he would have.

[peteb]

3 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 

He didn't tell you it was a good idea either, or he would have.

 

He didn't mention it because it isn't an issue. It is something that most decent bass players will do when the occasion demands it. This is a clip of Bobby Vega that demonstrates it pretty well, unless you are going to say that his technique is poor as well? Notice how he sometimes has the thumb behind the fretboard and sometimes over the top. 

 

 

[Grimalkin]

4 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

He didn't mention it because it isn't an issue. It is something that most decent bass players will do when the occasion demands it. This is a clip of Bobby Vega that demonstrates it pretty well, unless you are going to say that his technique is poor as well? Notice how he sometimes has the thumb behind the fretboard and sometimes over the top. 

 

 

 

Bobby is a pick player, so he doesn't have the benefit of right hand muting on the E string while working above it on the D and G strings in the way he's playing (the same reason slappers sometimes use the thumb to mute), bringing the thumb in now and again works for him. How many people do you know who play like Bobby Vega?

[Grimalkin]

One tutor is not enough of a sample size...

 

 

[peteb]

8 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 

Bobby is a pick player, so he doesn't have the benefit of right hand muting on the E string while working above it on the D and G strings in the way he's playing (the same reason slappers sometimes use the thumb to mute), bringing the thumb in now and again works for him. How many people do you know who play like Bobby Vega?

 

Regardless of BV using a pick, it is a perfectly valid muting technique, just as it is when Billy Sheehan or many other players do it.

 

Most players use a mixture of left hand and right hand muting techniques, whatever works for them. I would expect a decent teacher to be aware of this and to be capable of teaching it, rather than trying to enforce a classical guitar technique that isn't necessarily the best way of playing an electric bass. 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by peteb

[Grimalkin]

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

I would expect a decent teacher to be aware of this and to able to teach it, rather than trying to enforce a classical guitar technique that isn't necessarily the best way of playing an electric bass.

 

 

Find me a teacher teaching that, I've had about 8 over the course of decades and not one mentioned or advised it once. They all worked in the business, session work for names/broadcasters etc.