This Royal Mail strike is really something....

[Lozz196]

Yep, what the salary could afford in 2012 it would no way meet now, even without the situation of this year with heightened inflation & fuel. 

[Burns-bass]

21 hours ago, Tim2291 said:

On the flip side, I keep reading about them being overworked etc, we have a postman collect the mail from work everyday. His allotted collection time is 4pm, I've yet to see him arrive after 3.30pm! He sits in his van playing on his phone for at least half an hour before collecting the post. Hard to find sympathy for those like him who clearly are not overworked in any way. I do appreciate that he could be a small minority but still isn't great for the image they are trying to portray!

 

So, you spot him at work and watch him for half an hour? I'm not sure who the time waster is...

 

Quick straw poll, how many posties or RM workers are posting on here during work hours? (Answers on a postcard, please...)

[SteveXFR]

I keep hearing angry people say £32k is a great salary, nurses should shut up and get on with it. 

Firstly, for a skilled profession which requires a degree qualification, that's a terrible salary. Secondly, many of those workers started decades ago and bought homes, started families etc which they could afford at the time but since the cost of living has risen considerably and their wages haven't, they're struggling to pay for commitments that they could afford before. 

One of my relatives has just quit as a nurse after 30 years to work in a factory doing unskilled work for slightly more pay and a nicer work/life balance. 

[tegs07]

Welcome to the UK 2022. Loads of 50 somethings sitting in their homes worth nearly a million quid awaiting a retirement where they don’t have enough pension to cover surging prices of food and fuel and are scared of losing their mobility because there are precious few local facilities such as libraries, public toilets, post offices. The bus services are woeful and many things have moved online and require decent eyesight, coordination and technical knowledge. Getting sick is even more frightening.

 

Much of the working population look with envy at their circumstances because they can’t even afford the overpriced home to be isolated in.

 

This has been decades in the making. It doesn’t need to be this way.

Edited December 21, 2022 by tegs07

[Tim2291]

15 hours ago, skilamalink said:

How do you know that they aren't on their scheduled break? You don't.

I do... I've spoken to him about it, he has one more collection after us and then is finished for the day.

[Burns-bass]

17 minutes ago, Tim2291 said:

I do... I've spoken to him about it, he has one more collection after us and then is finished for the day.

 

Solidarity with the working classes mate.

 

Nobody likes a tattle tale, do they?   

[mcnach]

[SteveXFR]

19 minutes ago, Tim2291 said:

I do... I've spoken to him about it, he has one more collection after us and then is finished for the day.

 

But did he start early? An early finish time doesn't mean a short day.

I work with people who finish at 3pm but they start at 5am

[Lozz196]

Not sure about all working practices that are being looked at but I can understand why RM want to change some - maybe this has already been changed, maybe it was a practice that only happened in the depot he worked at but it`s what used to happen, my mate who was a postman told me about it:

 

2 postmen, Paul & Pete.

Paul is running a bit short on funds so gets Pete to pull a days sickie.

Pete gets paid for this day whilst at home and not sick at all.

Pauls duty is 8am - 5pm. Always finishes his round by 11.30 so always home by midday.

As Pete is off Paul covers Petes duty after doing his own, is back at the depot by 3pm, is home by 3.30pm.

Paul is still at home an hour and a half earlier than his scheduled duty time.

Paul receives a full days overtime (at overtime rates) for covering Petes duty.

 

Now I can understand unions looking after their members and T&Cs, fair play, no-one wants to be run over rough-shod by their employer and rightly so unions look after their members, but the above, well  I can see why any company would want such T&Cs changed. 

 

 

 

 

[Grimalkin]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

Welcome to the UK 2022. Loads of 50 somethings sitting in their homes worth nearly a million quid awaiting a retirement where they don’t have enough pension to cover surging prices of food and fuel and are scared of losing their mobility because there are precious few local facilities such as libraries, public toilets, post offices. The bus services are woeful and many things have moved online and require decent eyesight, coordination and technical knowledge. Getting sick is even more frightening.

 

Much of the working population look with envy at their circumstances because they can’t even afford the overpriced home to be isolated in.

 

This has been decades in the making. It doesn’t need to be this way.

 

The 5th wealthiest country in the world with nurses using food banks and the elderly lying on stretchers for 25 hours waiting to be seen by an NHS that is purposely being destroyed. Warm Banks, horrifying corruption at the 'top' levels, just the tip of the iceberg.

 

It's all gone very wrong... and the rest of the world can see that.

 

 

[Burns-bass]

16 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Not sure about all working practices that are being looked at but I can understand why RM want to change some - maybe this has already been changed, maybe it was a practice that only happened in the depot he worked at but it`s what used to happen, my mate who was a postman told me about it:

 

2 postmen, Paul & Pete.

Paul is running a bit short on funds so gets Pete to pull a days sickie.

Pete gets paid for this day whilst at home and not sick at all.

Pauls duty is 8am - 5pm. Always finishes his round by 11.30 so always home by midday.

As Pete is off Paul covers Petes duty after doing his own, is back at the depot by 3pm, is home by 3.30pm.

Paul is still at home an hour and a half earlier than his scheduled duty time.

Paul receives a full days overtime (at overtime rates) for covering Petes duty.

 

Now I can understand unions looking after their members and T&Cs, fair play, no-one wants to be run over rough-shod by their employer and rightly so unions look after their members, but the above, well  I can see why any company would want such T&Cs changed. 

 

 

 

 

 

There are screws I every job, although I'd never trust a second hand anecdote. Perhaps it happened, perhaps it didn't. One example of poor practice doesn't mean that the whole system is bad. (The conduct of Harold Shipman hasn't put me off visiting the GP, and my friend who is a builder hasn't killed 25 people that I know of.)

 

RM wants to pursue an outsourced Amazon/Hermes model. The reliable service we grew up with is being stripped back and replaced by zero-hours contracts, with poorly paid van drivers who have to urinate in a bottle so that shareholders can get their well earned dividend each year. 

 

We can stand by and let a 500 year-old institution be asset stripped and destroyed or support strikers. I know which side I'm on.

 

 

[Tim2291]

2 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

 

Solidarity with the working classes mate.

 

Nobody likes a tattle tale, do they?   

 

2 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

 

But did he start early? An early finish time doesn't mean a short day.

I work with people who finish at 3pm but they start at 5am

You both seem to be under the misconception that I have a problem with the postman himself, I don't, the dude is merely doing the job he is told to by his superiors. I have a problem with the management of the company who could relieve the pressures in other areas of their business. If they changed the current structure and move employees around to other departments, jobs would be protected, day to day running would be smoother and staff would probably be less burnt out than they are. Paying them more is not going to solve the fundamental problems that they have. 

Also to answer the question earlier about watching him... my office overlooks the car park where he waits so it's pretty hard to miss... and the comment about posting on here... I am able to take breaks whilst at work ;)!

[Dan Dare]

6 hours ago, nikon F said:

when did the nurses get a pay cut ?

 

Really? Words almost fail me. 

[Count Bassy]

20 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

 

It should never have been privatised in the first place.

 

Totally agree with you (Wow, never thought I'd find myself saying that).

Edited December 21, 2022 by Count Bassy

[Lozz196]

56 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

There are screws I every job, although I'd never trust a second hand anecdote. Perhaps it happened, perhaps it didn't. One example of poor practice doesn't mean that the whole system is bad. (The conduct of Harold Shipman hasn't put me off visiting the GP, and my friend who is a builder hasn't killed 25 people that I know of.)

 

RM wants to pursue an outsourced Amazon/Hermes model. The reliable service we grew up with is being stripped back and replaced by zero-hours contracts, with poorly paid van drivers who have to urinate in a bottle so that shareholders can get their well earned dividend each year. 

 

We can stand by and let a 500 year-old institution be asset stripped and destroyed or support strikers. I know which side I'm on.

 

 

Yes, could well have just been a local practice and one which any higher-ups, if they found out about it would have been hopping mad. Thing is that having been employed by Post Office Ltd since 1987, when it was part of RMG it wouldn`t surprise me if that were the norm back then - wouldn`t think it was now though, or even in early 2000s even before RM were sold. 

 

Whilst I`m completely in agreement that RM with its 500 year history shouldn`t be stripped back, sadly the competition is largely doing that to them already, under-cutting pretty much everything with their (shall we say somewhat dubious) working practices as mentioned. Customers (mainly business ones) largely making choices by price rather than levels of service.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Lozz196

[Count Bassy]

18 hours ago, skilamalink said:

Royal Mail made a profit of £758,000,000 last year so there is no need for the attacks on the workers' terms and conditions and no justification for the well below inflation pay offer. The company can afford it.

 

Royal Mail have to run the universal coverage by law. If they don't then who will?

Not arguing with any of that, as I said I sympathise with the workers, but the fact remains that Royal Mail will be loosing customers through these strikes, which will inevitably mean less jobs. Also, Royal Mail parcels operates in a competitive environment so if the competion pays their drivers less it makes it hard for the Royal Mail to compete. Ie more lost contracts, more job losses.

 

I don't like it, but it's how it is.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Count Bassy

[Count Bassy]

12 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said:

You @Tim2291maybe are not aware that your postman could well have to take a meal break at a predetermined daily time so that he does not fall foul of driver regulations.

His collection time from your business could also be programmed into his daily work schedule, not set by him, but by his management and agreed in your companys contract with Royal Mail.

Most businesses do not want collections of mail or parcels at the very last moment of the working day, he could well be trying to "keep the customer satisfied"-- it is so easy to just portray somebody else as a workshy loafer.

 

Isn't it?

 

 

 

Exactly. It's like trains. Just because they might arrive early doesn't mean that they are allowed to leave early. If a company works around a 4pm postal collection, they would be pretty peed off if they found at had already gone at 3.30pm.

[tegs07]

1 hour ago, Grimalkin said:

 

The 5th wealthiest country in the world with nurses using food banks and the elderly lying on stretchers for 25 hours waiting to be seen by an NHS that is purposely being destroyed. Warm Banks, horrifying corruption at the 'top' levels, just the tip of the iceberg.

 

It's all gone very wrong... and the rest of the world can see that.

 

 

I believe India has taken the 5th largest economy spot. The western economies in general are in decline. They are mired in debt and declining confidence in their currencies. It’s now down to the electorate to vote in a high tax and spend government and decide what kind of growth and lifestyle changes are required for sustainable development. The alternative is a blame culture and the rise of far right politics.

Edited December 21, 2022 by tegs07

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, tegs07 said:

I believe India has taken the 5th largest economy spot. The western economies in general are in decline. It’s now down to the electorate to vote in a high tax and spend government and decide what kind of growth and lifestyle changes are required for sustainable growth. An alternative is a blame culture and the rise of far right politics.

 

Fixed. 

[tegs07]

6 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Fixed. 

Sort of fixed the alternative is to continue to kick the can down the road with the current system. If chosen I suggest that the end result will either be far left or far right. I don’t see much road left with the current global headwinds. The era of cheap debt and benign global trade and cooperation is nearly over.

Edited December 21, 2022 by tegs07

[Dad3353]

... or maybe complete and utter apathy. I'm not sure that folk in general, all around the country, will 'do' anything. Things will just simply evolve of their own accord, following whatever the Future brings. Serendipity, I'd say, is more of a driver than any 'movement'. I may be wrong, of course, as could anyone else be. 

[Grimalkin]

6 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

 The alternative is a blame culture and the rise of far right politics.

 

We're already there if you look at the policies. The fact that people think there is a far-left, is just an indication of how right-wing this country has become.

[tegs07]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

... or maybe complete and utter apathy. I'm not sure that folk in general, all around the country, will 'do' anything. Things will just simply evolve of their own accord, following whatever the Future brings. Serendipity, I'd say, is more of a driver than any 'movement'. I may be wrong, of course, as could anyone else be. 

I’m not sure there has ever been a period of complete apathy. If there has I have been fortunate to live through it. Despite the odd whinge it has been a golden age historically speaking of relative wealth and global harmony. The economic and geopolitical landscape certainly looks far more rocky and the current industrial unrest is a symptom of the underlying issues that are slowly emerging.

 

For me there have been 3 major chances to pivot away from the current trajectory of rampant debt and economic malaise in the last decade and a half:

 

1. 2007/2008 banking crisis 

2. 2014 invasion of Crimea

3. 2019 Covid pandemic 

 

Each was a massive warning shot to change direction economically, politically and socially.

Each one was a failed opportunity. The 2022/2023 stagflationary debt crisis is yet another warning. If we don’t invest in our social institutions, our infrastructure, our education and health and redefine what wealth, economic growth and national security really means then I can’t see any outcome other than social and economic decline.

Edited December 21, 2022 by tegs07

[Dan Dare]

17 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

or maybe complete and utter apathy

 

Speak for yourself. NHS and other public service staff don't seem to be afflicted in that manner. But then, they aren't doing nicely, thanks.

[tegs07]

3 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

 

There are screws I every job, although I'd never trust a second hand anecdote. Perhaps it happened, perhaps it didn't. One example of poor practice doesn't mean that the whole system is bad. (The conduct of Harold Shipman hasn't put me off visiting the GP, and my friend who is a builder hasn't killed 25 people that I know of.)

 

RM wants to pursue an outsourced Amazon/Hermes model. The reliable service we grew up with is being stripped back and replaced by zero-hours contracts, with poorly paid van drivers who have to urinate in a bottle so that shareholders can get their well earned dividend each year. 

 

We can stand by and let a 500 year-old institution be asset stripped and destroyed or support strikers. I know which side I'm on.

 

 

I guess we really choose a side when we go for the cheapest option when sending a parcel!