tegs07 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, yorks5stringer said: "The UK is fast becoming a pariah for international investors and markets are prone to (extreme) overreaction when they smell blood." How does this explain the success of other Euro countires which have effectively nationalised their energy supply markets? Oh hang on, that's because most of them invest in the UK eg. EDF, Trains, Water, Wind etc etc I'm always skeptical when a multinational cries 'wolf' except when they all said Br**** was a very bad idea... Im speaking about investors pulling money from the UK not defending energy companies or foreign investment successes. https://www.ftadviser.com/investments/2022/08/05/uk-funds-on-track-to-post-highest-outflows-in-a-decade/ Of particular note are bonds. The UK and the Eurozone are going to have to entice private investors to buy their bonds, bunds etc and it will be a hard sell. Short term US treasuries will be where the money flows. Edited December 22, 2022 by tegs07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, tegs07 said: I’m not arguing that its bad policy or something that is desirable. More that there are no easy answers and sometimes unexpected consequences can kick off a chain reaction that can start to snowball. The UK is fast becoming a pariah for international investors and markets are prone to (extreme) overreaction when they smell blood. I’m not sure this is entirely true. Look at how many of our essential assets are owned by international businesses. Secondly, foreign investment that damages domestic production and innovation is worse for the country. The markets dominate everything you post as if they’re immutable and error free. Exogenous shocks (2008, Ukraine etc) show them up for what they are - an utter fabrication that exists to further enrich the rich. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: The markets dominate everything you post as if they’re immutable and error free. Exogenous shocks (2008, Ukraine etc) show them up for what they are - an utter fabrication that exists to further enrich the rich. It’s the distortions in the markets and colossal debt that dominate what I post. Much of the prosperity western nations have enjoyed is an illusion based upon a whole load of smoke and mirrors made plausible by access to cheap credit and imported deflation. The tide turned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, tegs07 said: It’s the distortions in the markets and colossal debt that dominate what I post. Much of the prosperity western nations have enjoyed is an illusion based upon a whole load of smoke and mirrors made plausible by access to cheap credit and imported deflation. The tide turned. Agreed. The problem is you assume that there will be some correction, instead I posit it’s more likely they’ll find a further illusion to perpetuate the status quo. Business as usual is good business! You’re in Bristol too aren’t you, we should do this over a pint. Probably better than here 🙂 Edited December 21, 2022 by Burns-bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blisters on my fingers Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 13 hours ago, Tim2291 said: I do... I've spoken to him about it, he has one more collection after us and then is finished for the day. How far away is the next collection ? What time is it booked ? Don't most of us finish at a certain time ? You sound like you object to him finishing work before you do.... what time do you get to the office, what time does he start work? 10 hours ago, Tim2291 said: Also to answer the question earlier about watching him... my office overlooks the car park where he waits so it's pretty hard to miss... and the comment about posting on here... I am able to take breaks whilst at work ;)! Don't understand your point Are you giving yourself a pat on the back because you can eat a sandwich and have a cup of tea, whilst still carrying on with your office work and looking out of the window? 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Burns-bass said: Agreed. The problem is you assume that there will be some correction, instead I posit it’s more likely they’ll find a further illustrious it perpetuate the status quo. Business as usual is good business! You’re in Bristol too aren’t you, we should do this over a pint. Probably better than here 🙂 Yep in Brizzle. I don’t think anyone has ever volunteered to subject themselves to my economic wibbling even with alcohol to numb the pain! Could be a plan after the Christmas carnage. I do think there will be a big correction that will take a few years to recover from. I don’t think it’s post apocalyptic eating road kill with all our possessions in shopping carts, but do think it’s highly likely that standards of living will decline and geopolitical tensions will rise. Edited December 21, 2022 by tegs07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blisters on my fingers Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 10 hours ago, Count Bassy said: Not arguing with any of that, as I said I sympathise with the workers, but the fact remains that Royal Mail will be loosing customers through these strikes, which will inevitably mean less jobs. Also, Royal Mail parcels operates in a competitive environment so if the competion pays their drivers less it makes it hard for the Royal Mail to compete. Ie more lost contracts, more job losses. I don't like it, but it's how it is. So it is just a race to the bottom? Why doesn't Royal Mail and all of their competitors pay their employees far less than they deserve, that way we will have full employment and guaranteed jobs for all ? Happy workers enjoying the fruits of their labour. Don't go on strike kids. Strikes is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 36 minutes ago, blisters on my fingers said: Why doesn't Royal Mail and all of their competitors pay their employees far less than they deserve, that way we will have full employment and guaranteed jobs for all ? Who determines what anyone deserves? Sure RM could pay more, but (as I've said) that could easily lead to fewer jobs in RM. Those people then end up on benefits, or working for even less money elsewhere. As I say, I don't like it, but (rightly or wrongly) we live in a free market economy, and that is the sort of thing that happens. Other current strikers are not quite in the same situation. Nurses, border force, railway workers; irrespective of what they might or might not deserve they don't work in a competitive market, so their strikes are more likely to work, and be less likely to damage their own employers' long term "business". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blisters on my fingers Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 "Who determines what anyone deserves?" Royal Mail management and their friends in high places. Unless you go on strike and fight for a better deal. If that doesn't work claim benefits, work for less at DPD, it will be your own fault, that is the sort of thing that happens. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Sadly if every other company in the same industry move goal posts and as a result become cheaper for their customers unless you really do have a USP which is worth sticking to it`s likely that the competition and their shareholders will laugh all the way to the bank with what was your customers money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Well I had a bank card posted by next day registered about 10 days ago and it hasn't even showed up on the tracking yet. So it looks like things are going swimmingly. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 10 hours ago, Burns-bass said: The markets dominate everything and are an utter fabrication that exists to further enrich the rich. Indeed! I've got a mate who's head of equities for a major bank... He pulls a 7 figure salary with bonus to match and completely agrees that it's a house built on sand, though government bail-outs exist if they really c0ck it up! He takes the money happily - his justification is that if he didn't, someone else would! Each to their own, but as I say to him Come the Revolution etc! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: Indeed! I've got a mate who's head of equities for a major bank... He pulls a 7 figure salary with bonus to match and completely agrees that it's a house built on sand, though government bail-outs exist if they really c0ck it up! He takes the money happily - his justification is that if he didn't, someone else would! Each to their own, but as I say to him Come the Revolution etc! At a macro level I would totally agree, particularly the part about it being built on sand. That’s the part that particularly worries me, particularly the bond market. I can see the UK and the Eurozone struggling to fulfill their debt repayments as private investors rush to short term US treasuries and UK and European bonds increase their yields to attract investors. For the average worker this is likely to mean their private pension may be at risk depending on how much leverage is involved. Bond yields have been weak for decades and there is all manner of leverage going on to balance the books. On a national level it may involve increasing the retirement age. Central banks may have to increase interest rates at a faster pace to get inflation down quicker and mortgage rates will rise. This impacts investment in equities (stock markets continues to fall) as well as debt repayments. In short the average person will have their two biggest lifelong investments exposed to extreme volatility. Mortgages and pensions. Edited December 22, 2022 by tegs07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, tegs07 said: Central banks may have to increase interest rates at a faster pace to get inflation down quicker and mortgage rates will rise. This impacts investment in equities (stock markets continues to fall) as well and debt repayments. In short the average person will have their two biggest lifelong investments exposed to extreme volatility. Mortgages and pensions. Central banks raising interest rates is doing huge damage while in no way addressing the cause of runaway inflation. It's piling pain on top of pain for normal people and shows who the BOE thinks matters (it's not a normal person dutifully paying their mortgage, that's for sure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: Central banks raising interest rates is doing huge damage while in no way addressing the cause of runaway inflation. It's piling pain on top of pain for normal people and shows who the BOE thinks matters (it's not a normal person dutifully paying their mortgage, that's for sure). The FED plays the music everyone else just dances or trashes their currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 10 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said: "Who determines what anyone deserves?" Royal Mail management and their friends in high places. Unless you go on strike and fight for a better deal. If that doesn't work claim benefits, work for less at DPD,** it will be your own fault, that is the sort of thing that happens. Or something. Not really. If the RM workers think that they are undervalued then they could go and work for someone else who will pay more**. Much easier than striking. **..... and there is the problem. For people who handle parcels and postage the RM people are possibly some of the better paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) Pay is really a small part of most of the industrial action occurring. Terms and conditions are steadily being eroded and an awful lot of people face a lot of uncertainty in their work, with their accommodation, with retirement. The Proletariat have become the Precariat. A certain person who constantly accuses me of supporting the establishment doesn’t realise in essence I agree with his views. It’s how to navigate out of the situation and change course which is the issue. If not handled with extreme caution the economy could quickly collapse. We all had a brief taster of this just a few weeks ago. Edited December 22, 2022 by tegs07 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassfinger Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 16 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said: "Who determines what anyone deserves?" Royal Mail management and their friends in high places. Unless you go on strike and fight for a better deal. ...and shoot themselves in the foot as RM are claiming that if it carries on much longer they'll be looking at making 11,000 staff redundant. So the strike may instead mean that a load of them lose their jobs, and those that are left not only don't get what they were demanding but also end up having a higher workload due to the job losses. I feel they do deserve it - as do the nurses, Ambo, lower paid rail staff - but I also feel it likely that not only are they not going to get it, they're going to end up worse off in a lot of other ways. On top of that the unions will come out of it weaker and with even less influence in the future - when you call someone's bluff and they stand firm it inevitability weakens your own position going forward. I wish them well, but with each day that passes it increasingly looks to me like each will end with an own goal of varying severity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan63 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 What if everyone goes on strike ? okay it's not actually answering the question but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blisters on my fingers Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 7 hours ago, Count Bassy said: Not really. If the RM workers think that they are undervalued then they could go and work for someone else who will pay more**. Much easier than striking. **..... and there is the problem. For people who handle parcels and postage the RM people are possibly some of the better paid. So the answer to an industrial dispute is to not bother.....just go and work for a competitor that already pays even less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 1 hour ago, blisters on my fingers said: just go and work for a competitor that already pays even less? The race to the bottom, eh? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blisters on my fingers Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Interesting how some the commentators on here, now seem to think about the huge wave of current disputes in such a polarised 'them and us' style. As far as I am aware, apart from employees with underlying health issues, none of the Royal Mail, NHS or railway and bus drivers etc, were given the opportunity to be furloughed and they carried on working, despite the risks, to keep the economy going, look after all of us in hospital, and keep the transport system running. People died doing this. The face masks and gowns supplied to hospitals, care homes etc did not arrive there by magic. The transport system needed to get nurses and health workers into their places of work? ... likewise. These workers carried on working for the benefit of our broader society. Not them. Us. All of us. Here we are now ... and workers that are asking for a pay rise that takes into account inflation are "shooting themselves in the foot" and should go and get a job elsewhere because otherwise 11,000 of them will be made redundant. Some of us have very short memories? 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blisters on my fingers Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, Dan Dare said: The race to the bottom, eh? Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said: So the answer to an industrial dispute is to not bother.....just go and work for a competitor that already pays even less? That's not what I said, or certainly not what I meant (and I think you know that). I was saying that it's hard to on strike for more pay, or go to an alternative employer, if that alternative employer is already paying less than your current one. We might not like the situation, but people (including you and me) have to live in the current real world rather than the world as they'd like it to be. Edited December 22, 2022 by Count Bassy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Of course, what we all really want to know is "What does Chompsky say about it all"? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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