Which Luthiers Build Full Carbon Fiber Basses?

[binky_bass]

Evening all!

 

I'm debating looking into having a full carbon fiber bass made, neck and body - set neck or some kind of through neck. It'd be a 6 string bass, ideally headless. Essentially I'm wanting something as absolutely light as possible. 

 

Anyone know any builder that do full carbon? Status do/did but they're books are full I believe. 

 

Cheers, Russ.

[Eric.C.Lapton]

KLOS, Emerald and modulus I think at the moment are the best known.

I would say carbon fibre basses are not as light as you think they will be it’s a heavy old material when mixed with the resin

Edited December 26, 2022 by Eric.C.Lapton

[binky_bass]

I had a Rainsong Jumbo acoustic a while back and that weighed in at 1.7kg, was hoping a bass of similar material would be lighter by a decent margin to that of a traditional wood bass. 

[Eric.C.Lapton]

I think emerald may be worth a look for you if your thinking of the GR carbon shell 

[itu]

Basslab.de which is a German company. Definitely expensive but so is Modulus Graphite. A TBX (through body experimental) costs an arm and a leg. And few kidneys.

 

Check Reverb and also these companies if a used one could still be an option:

- Zon

- Status

- Vigier

- Modulus' Jerry Dorsch

- Geoff Gould (MG founder)

- SKC Bogart / Schack (either or)

- CarbonTech

- Collier

 

- Gus was mentioned later here

- Moses was somewhat varying in quality

 

I don't recall if Steinberger, or Alembic, or MusicMan did six string basses. The necks of Peavey (G bass) and Alvarez were made by MG (I think?).

 

All in all, contact basslab.de

Edited December 27, 2022 by itu
add2

[Burns-bass]

Surely @BigRedXhas to chip in? Don’t Gus build some of the world’s best all carbon basses?

[binky_bass]

I can't get passed the look of Gus basses... they look like they've been made with modelling balloons. I'm sure they're amazing instruments, but aesthetically not for me!

[martthebass]

Status are no longer taking commissions so a new one is out. I’ve seen 6 string Stealths come up occasionally which would fit your bill, perhaps reaching out on the Wanted forum would be worth a punt?

[Burns-bass]

7 hours ago, binky_bass said:

I can't get passed the look of Gus basses... they look like they've been made with modelling balloons. I'm sure they're amazing instruments, but aesthetically not for me!

Agreed. They do nothing for me either, but they’re one of the only builders that uses carbon.

[binky_bass]

Gus also have a website that is entirely impossible to navigate on a mobile phone, so any potential customers can't even have a browse of the website. 

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

Gus also have a website that is entirely impossible to navigate on a mobile phone, so any potential customers can't even have a browse of the website. 

If you have to use the website, you can’t afford one! (Or something like that).

 

 

[AndyTravis]

Klos Basses?

 

https://klosguitars.com/collections/apollo-basses/products/electric-bass

[binky_bass]

4 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Klos Basses?

 

https://klosguitars.com/collections/apollo-basses/products/electric-bass

Not my cup of tea, they're bitsa basses 'assembled' in the USA. They look like a weak version of an old skool MM Stingray and they don't do 6 string basses, so no dice on Klös I'm afraid! 

[AndyTravis]

12 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Not my cup of tea, they're bitsa basses 'assembled' in the USA. They look like a weak version of an old skool MM Stingray and they don't do 6 string basses, so no dice on Klös I'm afraid! 

Ah ok. 
 

Did I not see Alusonic using Carbon Fibre?

 

Mightve only been wrap/front panel.

[martthebass]

On 26/12/2022 at 20:15, Eric.C.Lapton said:

 

I would say carbon fibre basses are not as light as you think they will be it’s a heavy old material when mixed with the resin

I’d agree with this, my old Status Streamline was a pretty solid thing at 7lbs which was quite a bit when you consider the diminutive size. The Alder/carbon wrap CW S2 comes in at about 8lb10oz so pro-rata about the same as full carbon.

[tauzero]

On 26/12/2022 at 20:15, Eric.C.Lapton said:

I would say carbon fibre basses are not as light as you think they will be it’s a heavy old material when mixed with the resin

 

Really? I've handled carbon fibre and cf/glass fibre huggers for motorcycles (admittedly thin skins). The density of the cf/gf one was about the same as a soggy beer mat (ie if you made a beer mat out of it, it would be that weight). The CF one was about the same as a dry beer mat. Like I say, this was quite a thin skin, but the core would be a significant factor in the weight. The Basslab instruments come in at 2.9-3.2kg so they're definitely on the light side. The neck profiles seem a bit on the chunky side though.

[Kiwi]

On 27/12/2022 at 04:15, Eric.C.Lapton said:

I would say carbon fibre basses are not as light as you think they will be it’s a heavy old material when mixed with the resin

It depends on the construction.  Solid resin, yes.  My Steinberger XL25A was tiny but weighed at least 4kg so they can be on the heavy side.  But monocoque design (aka hollow shell such as used by Status and Basslab) are just as strong and much lighter.

 

On 27/12/2022 at 04:05, binky_bass said:

Anyone know any builder that do full carbon? Status do/did but they're books are full I believe. 

Short of snagging a monocoque 6 string Status Streamline or Stealth Mk 2, you will almost certainly be looking at a custom route and that can get very expensive due to the labour costs with creating a set of moulds.  One exception, if you aren't wedded to the idea of just carbon is carbon wrapped.   One thing to be mindful of is that a pure carbon composite instrument can be unforgivingly brittle sounding and very lively for many.  Status injected epoxy foam into their streamline and stealth Mk2 basses to dampen some of those less pleasant resonances.  Another way around this is to do a carbon wrapped instrument.  This involves wrapping a light weight wood such as cedar in a pre-impregnated composite shell.  It saves on labour because moulds are not needed.  It's also less complicated to design.

You could approach Jon Shuker with a request for a carbon wrapped instrument.  He offers that option with necks on some of the JJ Brunel signature instruments so is very familiar with the technique. And, to my ears at least, the wrapped instruments retain some of the smoother treble and fatter mids of wooden instruments but with all the advantages of carbon composite.  The other thing is that Jon could probably accommodate any quirky requests like onboard tuner, specific hardware and pickups, neck dimensions etc.  I believe Simon Farmer at GUS uses wrapped wooden cores in his necks too.

[BigRedX]

On 27/12/2022 at 08:47, binky_bass said:

I can't get passed the look of Gus basses... they look like they've been made with modelling balloons. I'm sure they're amazing instruments, but aesthetically not for me!

 

Says the person with some sort of mutant rabbit inlay on the bass in their avatar... 😉

 

16 hours ago, binky_bass said:

Gus also have a website that is entirely impossible to navigate on a mobile phone, so any potential customers can't even have a browse of the website. 

 

Unfortunately since the Prince connection, Gus have become a victim of their own success, in that from what I can gather Simon is spending so much time making variations on purple guitars that he's not needed or had time to update the website.

 

On 26/12/2022 at 23:15, Burns-bass said:

Surely @BigRedXhas to chip in? Don’t Gus build some of the world’s best all carbon basses?

 

IMO they are one of the best guitars or basses made out of any kind of material, but due to the wooden core for the body and neck and the aluminium tube(s) they are no lighter than any  normal wooden instrument of a similar body size.

[Russ]

On 26/12/2022 at 16:14, itu said:

Basslab.de which is a German company. Definitely expensive but so is Modulus Graphite. A TBX (through body experimental) costs an arm and a leg. And few kidneys.

 

Check Reverb and also these companies if a used one could still be an option:

- Zon

- Status

- Vigier

- Modulus' Jerry Dorsch

- Geoff Gould (MG founder)

- SKC Bogart / Schack (either or)

- CarbonTech

- Collier

 

- Gus was mentioned later here

- Moses was somewhat varying in quality

 

I don't recall if Steinberger, or Alembic, or MusicMan did six string basses. The necks of Peavey (G bass) and Alvarez were made by MG (I think?).

 

All in all, contact basslab.de

I think, out of that lot, with the exception of Status, Basslab is the only company that makes an entirely carbon fibre bass. The rest all just use graphite necks. Moses are no more - they stopped doing instrument necks a while back, and now only make carbon fibre speaker enclosures and violin/cello fingerboards. Emerald are a good bet if you want to go acoustic though. Their stuff is great and, while pricey, is not horrendously priced for what it is. 

 

Klos is gearing up to produce replacement graphite necks, to fill that gap in the market that has been vacated by the closure of Status. So maybe you could speck out a bitsa bass with a Klos neck and a lightweight/hollow/chambered body from Warmoth/Allparts? 

[AndyTravis]

Emerald did do electrics…seem to have stopped - wonder if they still offer them?

 

might be worth an E-Mail?

Edited December 28, 2022 by AndyTravis

[AndyTravis]

The model was called the “flow”

 

 

[AndyTravis]

Emerald Guitars - Flow Bass, 5 String Electric Bass
https://reverb.com/item/2217739-emerald-guitars-flow-bass-5-string-electric-bass?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=2217739

[itu]

3 hours ago, Russ said:

I think, out of that lot, with the exception of Status, Basslab is the only company that makes an entirely carbon fibre bass. The rest all just use graphite necks.

Rainsong is full carbon (but a g-word), and I think that maybe Bogart had composite body.

 

There is a short scale (27") acoustic bass from JourneyInstruments.com with detachable neck. Several colours, bag etc. Probably from Ch... named Overhead.

 

You are right, Basslab is a true option. @binky_bass did you contact them already?

[Chris2112]

Basslab is surely the call to make when it comes to weight. I've had a number of these uniquely designed basses over the years. 

 

I had a Status Stealth 6 string years ago and it was extremely well balanced (it was the more attractive 'S1' first generation model). It was light but not a featherweight. Some of the other Status basses I've tried have tended towards being heavier, depending on the woods used. My old Series II had the full 'cricket bat' carbon fibre mid-section with wings glued on and that was pretty light. Not strictly full carbon fibre, but in the same sort of world, my Bogart Blackstone is fairly heavy for what it is. The Blackstone material is a composite resin 'foam' injected into a solid shell. It's meant to be an analogue to alder, designed to have the same sort of tone but with absolute uniformity. It sounds great but I think an alder body to the same proportions would be lighter. 

 

Heiko Hoepfinger's Basslab instruments have them all beat as far as weight goes. They're hollow, formed of composite resin with some carbon fibre support inside. You may notice a kevlar-esque weave in some parts of the paint. I can see a bit of that on my 2001 model which reminds me of a Ferrari F40 up close. In terms of weight, my 5 string L-bow must be about 3.5kg maximum. It feels like holding a feather. I bought it through Basslab as a used instrument and was in contact with Heiko via email to arrange the sale. He was great to deal with, being helpful and responsive to comms, so all round it was a great experience for me. I ended up with a bass that I love and buying it was stress free. The only consideration is that the looks aren't for everyone, but I love them. If I could get my hands on a fretless my Manne and Pedulla Pentabuzz would be in danger! 

[BigRedX]

On 28/12/2022 at 17:26, AndyTravis said:

The model was called the “flow”

 

 

 

IMO there is something very awkward about that body shape that doesn't "flow" at all.