SamIAm Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 My quest for a five string short scale (that I can afford!) is not going well, so my thoughts are turning back to a self build ... for which I have almost all the bits (wood/tuners/pups/truss rod). When I built Twiggy, I had a power jigsaw, power sander, power drill and some hand rasps/files (A run of the mill Stanley set) and was able to shape the neck without too much grief ... I no longer have these tools (Lost in my fire) ... tho by some quirk a low end electric hand router that was still in its box did survive 🤷♀️ For the shaping of the body and neck that comes between the rough cutting of the outlines and the endless (So I gather) sanding ... what hand tools would would folks recommend? S'manth x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Paging @Jabba_the_gut and @Andyjr1515... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 They could be asleep 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: Paging @Jabba_the_gut and @Andyjr1515... What...who...where... ...and why is everyone in my bedroom????? 2 hours ago, Smanth said: For the shaping of the body and neck that comes between the rough cutting of the outlines and the endless (So I gather) sanding ... what hand tools would would folks recommend? I do most of my finer carving with a simple set of card scrapers. Pretty much all of the neck carve with these and quite a bit of the body carve. There are various sets but you need at least one rectangular one (2-3 in different sizes is ideal) and a goose neck one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-Marples-M2450-Cabinet-Scraper/dp/B0000DD4NQ/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=card+scrapers&qid=1672263585&sr=8-6 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Proops-Cabinet-Carbon-Scraper-Postage/dp/B00AIN9Z8C/ref=sr_1_15?keywords=card+scrapers&qid=1672263585&sr=8-15 They generally come with the essential burr already on (they act like mini planes) and that would last long enough for a build so you can avoid the black art of reapplying the burr. ....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelDean Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Not that I've done loads of bass building (or even finished the one I started!), but I like a Shinto rasp for taking off a lot of material pretty quickly. It is a tool I wish I had bought a lot earlier than I did! Great for roughing out a forearm or belly contour and neck profiling. https://amzn.eu/d/0KCrJIC 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) The big plus is that good hand tools can be gathered at very low cost. I have found a spokeshave and card scrapers to be my most effective tools. Recently I took my EUB to Tim Phillips (violin maker) with a view to him sorting the fingerboard scoop out. Encouraged by him I did the job myself with a card scraper. He showed me how to sharpen a card scraper with a file - a revelation. Flat, round and half round files are also useful. I sometimes use a rasp and/or shinto for rough shaping, although at my (lack of) skill level much care has to be taken to avoid going fractionally too deep with the rasp/ shinto - stop just before it looks right, avoid cut marks that are too deep. Tenon saw, chisels and mallet are useful for body cuts / forearm chamfers. Stanley planes, the ubiquitous no 4 is highly rated, I like my no3 which is a bit smaller and lighter. I have found https://paulsellers.com/ really inspirational and useful about hand tools e.g. lidl chisels are an absolute bargain, so are antique centres / boot sales. Wooden planes and spokeshaves can be bought for peanuts and when fettled they are an absolute joy to use. Sharpening on the other hand.... I was better at it when I built my first bass aged 14 than I am now possible shopping list - I am sure others will find things I have missed Square, sliding angle bevel square Card scrapers, flat and curved Spokeshave - Stanley 151 or 51? (s/h vintage) Chisels x 4 small to wide Lidl or boot sale - vintage Stanley/Record or get lucky and find Sorby /Old Sheffield steel Planes Stanley No4 or No3 (wood handle, older is better). Planes - desirable but not essential? small block plane Files - round (big and small), half round, flat-coarse, flat-fine and triangular - Draper, Bahco ? Tenon saw - vintage Spear and Jackson (be prepared to sharpen it) or a modern hardpoint (throwaway) e.g. Irwin Mallet - find one you like the weight and feel of, or apprentice task, make your own Rasp / shinto Sharpening stone (diamond plates are nice but £££) Stanley sharpening roller guide luxury: Veritas Cornering Tool Kit - I got bought a set of these by Mrs 3below, not essential but very nice. Ask around, many hand tools can be picked up free or at very low cost. Highly satisfying using them, no need for dust extraction and much lower risk of digit loss. Edited December 28, 2022 by 3below 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 As above , card scrapers are my go to for finishing fingerboards on uprights and fretless . Take your time and learn how to put an edge on them . Its not hard . Also hand planes are fine tools but again , learn how to put an edge on the iron properly . After plenty of practice and patience , I can level a fretless fingerboard so you can balance a ball bearing on it without it rolling off . Also a decent (not cheap ) japanese saw . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 9 hours ago, Frank Blank said: Paging @Jabba_the_gut and @Andyjr1515... The Shinto rasp is a must have I believe. The one I have has a course and fine side and is great the main part of neck shaping. I also have a couple of rasp files like these https://www.rutlands.com/sp+more-carving-japanese-carving-files-japanese-half-round-wood-carving-file-110mm-medium-rutlands®+r1303 Cheers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 The other thing is sand paper. I tried lots of different paper over a few years but found one from Halfords of all places that was great. It didn’t clog, wasn’t too expensive, lasted a long time and came in all the grades I wanted. They stopped selling it recently and the replacement product is inferior. I’ve looked for elsewhere but no joy… the search continues!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 If I could only have one tool it would be a powerfile, depending on grit size you can use it as a bulk wood remover (well bulk guitar wise - not like a chainsaw!) and finer grit will do much of the finishing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) Thanks Folks! I've ordered a trio of cabinet scrapers and a Shinto rasp from the big A ... great idea @3belowabout cat boot sales for used tools, it will help me afford to start building out that comprehensive list. I can actually feel a sense of enthusiasm for a build returning (or is it the fevers!?) ... so much so that I laid out all the bits to see what they look like. I suspect a build diary update coming in the next few days ... and loads more questions!! lol S'manth x Edited December 29, 2022 by Smanth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted December 30, 2022 Author Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) So my new tools arrived. And from exploring the info & links shared, I stumbled across https://theelectricluthier.com/ which appears a great resource. One of his videos describes how to route the truss rod & graphite rod channels using a hand trimmer near identical to the one I've got! I've also discovered that my electric drill and palm sander are in the items salvaged from my flat and appear to be operational (Tho I'll need to get a new battery/charger) ... I guess that all I need now is a saw (or two) and a design and I can start shaping. S'manth x Edited December 30, 2022 by Smanth 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Good - a shinto rasp and cabinet scrapers is a good way to go. The hand trimmer would be sufficient for most guitar building tasks - a full on router can be a bit of a handful, but a side fence/bearing guide will help you follow a template (assuming that is what you plan to do). I'd also find some aluminium oxide sandpaper as you can get it as fine as 400 grit, which is an ideal preparation for your chosen finish. I find a short length of D-shape wooden moulding is ideal as a "sanding block". Then if you really want a fine finish on your paint or lacquer, a pack of micro-mesh pads and some cutting compound such as Meguiar's ultimate compound 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 @Norris !!!! Great to see you back here 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 @Norrisrouting is likely to be freehand (or following an edge for truss) as I am making a one off custom shape. S'manth x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) Further browsing around uncovered some more amazing resources for self build. One youtube channel had a number of gems in it! Its name "Guns and guitars" nearly put me off (A major driver in my never returning to my land of birth is the US attitude to guns) but ... I watched a video where this guy starts off with saying "Your circumstances do not define what you are capable of" and then goes on to describe the tools he used to build a bass out of "junk" wood whilst living in a motorhome!!! Some of his gems: How to make a notched fret straightedge out of an aluminium ruler using a file to gut the notches, how to make a fret leveler using a spirit level, double sided sticky tape and sandpaper and how to craft fret protectors from a soda can. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnzms8dZdVM). But in his "all the tools you need" video,he shows his most amazing work bench It looks amazing and I really need a work space ... but likely only available in the US I thought NOT SO!!! The toolstation about 3 miles from me actually had them in stock, so now in my living room I have a place to work (Meh ... I live alone and have a suitable hoover to clean up the sawdust lol) the ruler is for scale. It is crazy small, insanely quick to setup, quite steady (with 4 legs a wee bit of paper to totally level it is necessary) and bonkers strong (working load of 450kg!) and gives me somewhere to do my mad dr frankenstein bass guitar work! S'manth x Edited January 1, 2023 by Smanth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 51 minutes ago, Smanth said: routing is likely to be freehand You really, really don't want to go freehand with a router unless you are very experienced in their use, @Smanth I am pretty experienced and I still wouldn't ever go freehand...probably because I am also experienced in what can and often does happen when you do 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: You really, really don't want to go freehand with a router unless you are very experienced in their use, @Smanth I am pretty experienced and I still wouldn't ever go freehand...probably because I am also experienced in what can and often does happen when you do Well that plan goes out the window then! S'manth x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Smanth said: Well that plan goes out the window then! S'manth x Happens to me all the time Just to expand. It depends what you are using the router for but, basically: - If you are rounding, say, the edges of the body outline, you would use a top bearing bit and use the cut edge of the body as your template for the bearing to follow... - ...which is the same method that you mention for the truss rod slot, where the bearing is following the side of the neck blank - If you are fine-tuning the body outline from a rough shape cut, you would generally use a mdf or similar template and use a bottom-bearing bit to follow the template. Here, though, it is essential that you are only removing a couple of mm on each pass (general rule for all uses of routers) - for chambers, then again a template can be used but it is essential to hog out the bulk of the material with a Forstner bit or similar so that, again, the router bit is both captive with the bottom bearing and also the bit is removing very small depths of timber. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Happens to me all the time Just to expand. It depends what you are using the router for but, basically: - If you are rounding, say, the edges of the body outline, you would use a top bearing bit and use the cut edge of the body as your template for the bearing to follow... - ...which is the same method that you mention for the truss rod slot, where the bearing is following the side of the neck blank - If you are fine-tuning the body outline from a rough shape cut, you would generally use a mdf or similar template and use a bottom-bearing bit to follow the template. Here, though, it is essential that you are only removing a couple of mm on each pass (general rule for all uses of routers) - for chambers, then again a template can be used but it is essential to hog out the bulk of the material with a Forstner bit or similar so that, again, the router bit is both captive with the bottom bearing and also the bit is removing very small depths of timber. As always excellent advice from @Andyjr1515, particularly the advice on freehand routing. Also take care to avoid unintentional freehand routing, I am ruthlessly careful to wait until I can physically see that the router bit has stopped rotating before moving away / out from the work-piece. A barely rotating router bit will cause unfortunate damage if you accidentally catch it on the bass/guitar body as you move it out of the way. If you are rounding do watch out for body cavities / chambers / jack socket holes that you may have previously created. As the router bearing falls into the hole a nicely rounded divot will appear in the body and your work so far will probably become expensive firewood. My time is 'cheap' these days, wood is not . I can safely say that I have never done this once before, I have in fact done it twice, stupidity is a hard lesson. In respect of routers, I am increasingly on the same page as @Andyjr1515and try to use it as little as possible. Edited January 1, 2023 by 3below 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I might be the odd one out as I enjoy working with a router! But having said that I agree with the replies above from @Andyjr1515snd @3below. I spend more time making templates to use with router bearing cutters that I do actually routing. I also completely agree with the point about removing the bulk with a Forstner bit (again buy decent ones - worth it in the long run). The other consideration is not trying to remove too much in one go else the router will bite!! All the best! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) What I am taking away ... 1) Only route a shallow layer at a time. (This was already my experience with Xena, my baby CNC, but it is good to know the same applies with the bigger ones too) 2) Use a template. I had no idea of how to best make a template and so was shying away from them ... however what you folks have said got me to thinking about it again. and then I had an idea! Xena physically survived the fire and I am in the process (as with a few other things) of cleaning her up and seeing if she still works (I need to do the same with Pru, my 3D printer ... tho with her I can see that the plastic parts are melted/deformed ... they can be reprinted but it is a fair amount of work so I've been putting it off) ... if Xena still runs, I can use her to cut out the templates and then use those for the routing on the bass. I guess it falls into the classic pattern of doing a lot of prep work to make the job go smoothly. 3) Clear as much waste/rough material as possible with a drill & forstner bit. Thanks folks! S'manth x Edited January 1, 2023 by Smanth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 12 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: @Norris !!!! Great to see you back here I pop on occasionally, but don't often have much to say . Nice to see you're still hanging around here 👍 16 minutes ago, Smanth said: Use a template. I had no idea of how to best make a template and so was shying away from them ... however what you folks have said got me to thinking about it again. A sheet of thin mdf works for me. Thick enough to run a guide bearing on, but thin enough to not spend weeks sanding it into shape. If you're going to freehand I'd avoid power tools, except maybe a jigsaw to rough it out. It's far too easy to remove too much material and/or fingers! Then use files, rasps and sanding sticks - and take your time 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 All of the above. Routers along with planers are probably the most dangerous tools in the shop and when they bite they run away very quickly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 30 minutes ago, Ralf1e said: All of the above. Routers along with planers are probably the most dangerous tools in the shop and when they bite they run away very quickly. Just add to this table saws and you have the holy trinity of digit decapitation (or worse). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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