What has a professional bassist got, that I have not

[Lozz196]

Whilst in my last band we weren`t professional it didn`t stop us behaving professionally. I`m convinced a lot of the work that we got owed much to the fact that we were easy to work with and behaved in this manner. A certain type of irony given we were a punk band I suppose.

[Franticsmurf]

6 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Whilst in my last band we weren`t professional it didn`t stop us behaving professionally. I`m convinced a lot of the work that we got owed much to the fact that we were easy to work with and behaved in this manner. A certain type of irony given we were a punk band I suppose.

I think that goes a long way in any profession. I've always tried to be professional in attitude and approach at gigs - it shows respect to the venue/manager and these days (it seems) makes you stand out above other bands who don't feel they need to. Unfortunately I've been in bands where the same attitude isn't shown by all the members and it can get embarrassing.

[TimR]

11 hours ago, mario_buoninfante said:

Being a nice person would make things easier, but I think it's a nice to have more than a must have.

 

I think at some point that becomes essential. That applies to all walks of life where someone is customer facing. People will put up with a fair amount of nonsense if the job is getting done, but if the nonsense starts getting to them they'll look around. Word of mouth is about reliable workers who are easy to work with.

 

The world of music, is of course, littered with exceptions to this, but they are exceptional musicians.

 

 

[Greg Edwards69]

Sometimes, getting professional gigs includes having the right bass. I've heard more than several stories of people not getting a gig or session because their bass didn't say "fender" on the headstock and/or had more than 4 strings.

[Intoutof]

Yep, More of the "must get on well with people" thing. 

The one year that I was "pro" was spent on cruise ships in a 4 piece party band. Out of that year we were at sea for 11 months...and had one day off in that 11 months. 

We spent a massive amount of time in one another's company so it was best for everybody that a nice happy conducive vibe was a given because there weren't too many places to run to : )

[NancyJohnson]

Professional.  Hmm.  

 

In my opinion, I think it has nothing to do with ability/chops, gear etc. more about being in the right place at the right time at the start of the journey and having the nuance to sell yourself short constantly.  There's hundreds of pro musicians that lack the ability that belies their status.  We've all seen them.  There are few people at the top of the pyramid. 

 

I know plenty of guys who've played professionally and all have second/third jobs to support this.  Read some of the blog posts by Jay Postones, the drummer of Tesseract, who was doing graphic design work for a business in Reading 'minutes before [I] went on stage' and finishing up the work post-set while the rest of the band were having a beer.

 

I often wonder how things would have gone for me had Polydor signed us about 35 years ago.  

[mario_buoninfante]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

True, but most of these people rely to a large extent on word of mouth to get more work, and being a nice person does go a long way towards getting those recommendations.

 

I do agree, but what does being a nice person mean? What is the interaction people have with their electrician?
If being a nice person means being well mannered, I agree. But I don't think anything more than that is "required" in 90% of the cases.
As in, one's electrician could also be a philanthropist, but I doubt it'll come up that often in conversation with their clients. Or, I doubt that it is the main reason why they get called in the first place.
With this, I'm not trying to say being nice is not required, it's just that I was surprised to see how many times this got called out as THE thing to have in order to be a pro.
I still believe that being able to "deliver" is as much important as, if not more important than, being nice in order to get jobs.

ie one's nice but can't play. Don't think they get the job
one's not nice but can play, they could get the job.

Edited January 5, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[jazzyvee]

From a musicianship point of view, i don't consider myself to be at what think of as a professional level. I consider myself competent have a good reliablility and attitude to what i need to do and others and have pro level gear that i understand and sounds good and is reliable. Most of my gigs are with bands containing proper pro players with degrees and formal training and can play whatever you put in front of them and i can see why they are. I'm just pleased that they still want to do the gigs i call them for.

 

I'm self taught by ear and In the past I have toured as a guitarist with musicians where i have been the only non-pro ( by that i don't earn a significant amount from music).  Even when touring i earned far less from the gigs than my day job. But i took the tours because i love gigging and performing music and well... you can't buy those kind of opportunities.

 

Now some of those bands were well known ( in their genre) and i was filling in as a hired hand. A short while after getting into rehearsals and gigging with one of those bands, i realised that some of the musicians were not what i would consider pro standard in their playing or attitude and that made things challenging because we couldn't raise the standard of the music.

 

Personally I have always looked at the standard of musicianship as the main marker for being a professional and not so much the earnings.
 

For example would Nathan East or Larry Carlton cease to be professional if they decided to stop charging for gigs?  I think not. You can still be a professional  standard musician even though your profession does not pay the bills. 

 

If i had to choose one, it would be to be a professional standard musician. But i'm not so i enjoy being a weekend warrior with a day job.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by jazzyvee

[chris_b]

IMO the basic difference between a pro, a semi-pro and an amateur player is attitude and ability.

[TimR]

43 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

I do agree, but what does being a nice person mean?

 

That would require a thread of its own, but the ability to get on with the rest of the musicians for the length of a project. 

 

If you're not a people person you, and they, are not going to enjoy playing together. But then you'd have to ask why do you want to be a musician if you don't like being around musicians. So maybe that's a moot point. 

 

Maybe you don't need to be 'nice', but you need to be able to fit in with them. I suppose you don't actually want a 'nice' bass player if the rest of the band are psychopaths. But guess those types of bands don't last long.

Edited January 5, 2023 by TimR

[mario_buoninfante]

27 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

That would require a thread of its own, but the ability to get on with the rest of the musicians for the length of a project. 

 

If you're not a people person you, and they, are not going to enjoy playing together. But then you'd have to ask why do you want to be a musician if you don't like being around musicians. So maybe that's a moot point. 

 

Maybe you don't need to be 'nice', but you need to be able to fit in with them. I suppose you don't actually want a 'nice' bass player if the rest of the band are psychopaths. But guess those types of bands don't last long.

 

Yap, absolutely. And just to be clear, I do love the interaction with other musicians when playing, and I believe it's a big part of what makes music great. But I understand others might feel different about it, and it's just fine.

[Ralf1e]

20 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

So, before I posted my question, I thought that musicians in bands were technically skillful players.

 

I now see that the musicians in demand are those with the chops - but also with a good attitude. 

 

For myself, even if I can't play so well,  I can learn to have a better attitude, for sure! 

 

 

I might be wrong but I think Victor Wooten said "No one ever danced to a scale"

We are there to support and make a groove.

I have been known to get to an event and get asked we have no bass can you play, Go home grab my rig and bass and go back to set up within 5 minutes as they had started to play. They loved it. So did I! Pressure brings out the best in you or the worst.

I have been asked what other (professional) bands do I play with?

I have been told by a fantastic singer from a choral society. "I don't usually say anything but thank you for tonight's playing, most professional"

I am not pro by any means can't read dots or tab.I have a good ear and timing/rhythm but the get in do the job get out is a way I have always used.

I set up fast then help others. Break down fast then help others. Then get out fast.

I am there to make music not wet knickers lol

[Dad3353]

4 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

I might be wrong but I think Victor Wooten said "No one ever danced to a scale"...

 

'Whiter Shade Of Pale'..? 

[Ralf1e]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

 

'Whiter Shade Of Pale'..? 

Is that where it comes from?

[Dad3353]

Many decades ago now, I worked in a music shop, here in France, and worked regularly with one or two variety bands, as well as 'depping' often enough wherever a drummer or bassist was needed. There was a 'pool' of folk that would be called upon, over a rang of instruments, and a much wider 'pool' of competent musicians. These latter would rarely be first choice for opportunities, as, for whatever reason, they did not have, or maintain, the contact skills that the former used. Maybe less motivated, maybe with other commitments, maybe just less 'personable'... Whatever. Most had fine musical skills, chops, technique, repertoire etc, but didn't get the calls. I took a lesson from all of this, and honed my 'personal' skills almost as much as my drumming rudiments and chops. Luck plays a part, but contacts trumps playing ability most of the time, that, I'd say. Just my tuppence-worth. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Dad3353

[fretmeister]

Ed Friedland posted a couple of things on his Facebook recently about the realities of being a professional sideman.

He had made a comment about his boss in The Mavericks having the final say on the bass tone and even the preferred look of the instruments for gigs.

 

Loads of weekend warriors went nuts about how that was disrespectful and that they would walk from such a gig.

 

Absolutely none of them gave any thought that Ed's gig is a job as a bass player playing the band leader's music, and that the band leader was his employer.

 

Even when he laid it out as having the same sort of responsibilities as any other job and relationship with an employer there were still cretins suggesting that he start making demands!

 

There's a reason he's had that gig for quite a while - he plays what he's asked to play when he's asked to play it. He's a solid and reliable employee.

 

He admitted there were loads of "better" bassists than him, but clearly those better bassists have no idea what 99% of music jobs are - a job with terms and conditions like any other. Turn up on time, work, be pleasant company or at least not annoying company, get paid, and go home without causing problems for the boss.

 

All that sort of thing is far more important than being able to sight read Classical Thump.

[peteb]

4 hours ago, TimR said:

If you're not a people person you, and they, are not going to enjoy playing together. But then you'd have to ask why do you want to be a musician if you don't like being around musicians. So maybe that's a moot point. 

 

 

It is a moot point indeed. It always amazes me when people who say they want to be in bands also claim to be painfully introverted... 

 

[TimR]

17 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

It is a moot point indeed. It always amazes me when people who say they want to be in bands also claim to be painfully introverted... 

 

 

I think a lot of very well known musicians and actors are. They play a part on a stage, have a manuscript, know what they're doing. But once off stage they're lost around people. 

 

That's not a problem if you're in a band of people you've known for a long time, but don't think it works very well if you're depping, or doing session work. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by TimR

[peteb]

7 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I think a lot of very well known musicians and actors are. They play a part on a stage, have a manuscript, know what they're doing. But once off stage they're lost around people. 

 

 

I've worked in theatre and played in bands for 45 years or so. There are a few exceptions, but I would say that generally isn't the case at all...! 

 

[Bluewine]

2 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I think a lot of very well known musicians and actors are. They play a part on a stage, have a manuscript, know what they're doing. But once off stage they're lost around people. 

 

That's not a problem if you're in a band of people you've known for a long time, but don't think it works very well if you're depping, or doing session work. 

 

 

Agreed, I think I'm introverted most of the time. However,  at gigs I get to be a different person for a few hours. Even during breaks when I'm chatting with people I'm charming and witty. When the gig is over and I'm back to normal life I'm very shy snd quiet.

 

Blue

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

I might be wrong but I think Victor Wooten said "No one ever danced to a scale"

We are there to support and make a groove.

I have been known to get to an event and get asked we have no bass can you play, Go home grab my rig and bass and go back to set up within 5 minutes as they had started to play. They loved it. So did I! Pressure brings out the best in you or the worst.

I have been asked what other (professional) bands do I play with?

I have been told by a fantastic singer from a choral society. "I don't usually say anything but thank you for tonight's playing, most professional"

I am not pro by any means can't read dots or tab.I have a good ear and timing/rhythm but the get in do the job get out is a way I have always used.

I set up fast then help others. Break down fast then help others. Then get out fast.

I am there to make music not wet knickers lol

 

 

Isn't a dance groove based in a scale ?

 

Blue

[NHM]

We play mainly pubs and something that hasn't been said yet (IIRC) is that it is important to get on with the punters. All our band members seem to be able to effortlessly negotiate drunks asking for songs, trying to sing into the mics, dancing/lurching into the front line or worse - without getting involved. Not something I find easy, I try to keep out of it! But having a good vibe with those that we're 'entertaining' seems pretty important to getting more bookings. 

[Bluewine]

6 minutes ago, NHM said:

We play mainly pubs and something that hasn't been said yet (IIRC) is that it is important to get on with the punters. All our band members seem to be able to effortlessly negotiate drunks asking for songs, trying to sing into the mics, dancing/lurching into the front line or worse - without getting involved. Not something I find easy, I try to keep out of it! But having a good vibe with those that we're 'entertaining' seems pretty important to getting more bookings. 

 

It's part of our job in my band. During breaks we're required to go out and chat with people and thank them for coming out and supporting us. After all there are plenty of other places those folks could have been.

 

Going off and hiding in a corner by yourself during a break would not work with us.

 

Blue

Edited January 5, 2023 by Bluewine

[peteb]

3 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

 

 

Agreed, I think I'm introverted most of the time. However,  at gigs I get to be a different person for a few hours. Even during breaks when I'm chatting with people I'm charming and witty. When the gig is over and I'm back to normal life I'm very shy snd quiet.

 

Blue

 

When I worked as a stagehand for a professional theatre production when I was a teenager, virtually everybody backstage was loud and pretty over the top. Quite an eye-opener for a kid! 

 

s far as bands go, yes there are people who are perfectly sociable with the band but pretty quiet at home. A guitarist I played with in London was one of the biggest personalities I've ever met (when we went to a pub we would save him two seats while he went to the bar - one for him and won for his ego), but he once told me it was his way of dealing with being shy by nature, so he developed an over the top personality to (over)compensate.

 

Someone like you might find it a bit difficult doing road gigs, where there is no 'normal life' to go back to for a few days / weeks. Then again, I'm sure that you would probably learn to adapt. 

 

[Bluewine]

29 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I think a lot of very well known musicians and actors are. They play a part on a stage, have a manuscript, know what they're doing. But once off stage they're lost around people. 

 

That's not a problem if you're in a band of people you've known for a long time, but don't think it works very well if you're depping, or doing session work. 

 

Interesting point.

 

A few months ago I was approached by a pretty lady after a gig when I was packing up my gear. She introduced herself gave me a hug and her cell number.

 

Where else but a gig would that happen to me? 😀

 

Blue