Your "Amp-Less" Setup!

[krispn]

6 hours ago, joel406 said:

Your EQ is set wrong.

 

I use parametric EQ'ing. Much easier than trying to putz with a graphic. 

 

I set low at around 80/85hz. Level at about +10/11

 

Mids are hella scooped.

 

Low mids around 450 with gain at -12.

 

High mids set to 850/875 with gain at -12.

 

Highs at 8.5k with gain at +3/4.

 

Your Q line should be pretty contoured. Gradual rise up and down. Falling slightly below the mids and a gradual rise up to the highs.

 

The level from the desk cannot be too low. If you are turning levels up above 20 on the mixer, the level set to your bus is too low.

 

If your wireless is having dropouts. Try rescanning. If your using a "budget" or cheap POS wireless. Get a Shure PSM300 pro system. Any and every issue you "claim" to have, I have "never had". And I leave the stage and travel upwards of 100 to 150 feet from the stage. IEMs sound clear and sharp. Zero distortion. Also if you're using "budget" or crap IEMs, get some real ones. I've never tried KZ. Mine are custom fit. With "quality" drivers. I own 2 sets. One 5 driver a side (3 lows 1 mid 1 high) with crossovers. My main set is 8 driver a side (4 low 2 mid 2 high) of course crossovers.

 

You are doing it wrong.

some questions please. 
What’s your rig/bass (I’m not bothered about strings but if that’s integral please included info)

 

What sound issue did you have to land on your eq settings. When you say parametric do you mean semi parametric. If you’re cutting -12 does that mean clock face -12 or minus 12dB?

 

 

I normally leave the eq flat on my bass and the preamp pedal too but I think I’m doing it wrong. 
 

When you say you leave the stage and travel upwards of 100ft is that a vertical trajectory or do you walk away from the stage? Why do you commute so far from the stage and does that help you hear the sound you’ve dialled in with the mix? 
 

For context what sort of music do you play what size of venues. If I walked 100ft form the stage I’d be in a canal surrounded by youths causing annoyance and I don’t think my wireless pack is watertight. 
 

I look forward to your insight and advice for my tone. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

11 hours ago, krispn said:

some questions please. 
What’s your rig/bass (I’m not bothered about strings but if that’s integral please included info)

 

What sound issue did you have to land on your eq settings. When you say parametric do you mean semi parametric. If you’re cutting -12 does that mean clock face -12 or minus 12dB?

 

 

I normally leave the eq flat on my bass and the preamp pedal too but I think I’m doing it wrong. 
 

When you say you leave the stage and travel upwards of 100ft is that a vertical trajectory or do you walk away from the stage? Why do you commute so far from the stage and does that help you hear the sound you’ve dialled in with the mix? 
 

For context what sort of music do you play what size of venues. If I walked 100ft form the stage I’d be in a canal surrounded by youths causing annoyance and I don’t think my wireless pack is watertight. 
 

I look forward to your insight and advice for my tone. 

Clearly he mean 100ft vertically, how he became so highly elevated above all us other mere mortals.

 

We cannot with our simple Earthly equipped minds do us any hopes whatsoever of even just remotely begin to fathom what his divine sensory perception of reality is like, transcending reality it self as it does.

 

Levitation is just but a trivial display of a mere faction of the true magnitude of other-worldly powers this genuine God of Tone possesses.

 

 

Genesis 1:31 of the Tone Bible :

 

"joel406, The God of Tone, levitated 100 to 150 feet upwards to properly judge and take joy in the superlatively sublime splendour of his EQ settings, and He saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good and He validated it completely"

   

Edited June 28, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Bassmonkey2510]

On 26/06/2023 at 22:20, warwickhunt said:

@Bassmonkey2510

 

FOH is fine.  Metering - nothing is overloading/clipping.  Wireless AND wired through IEM or studio headphones is exactly the same.  

 

It is a total mystery why my bass (and none of the other inputs to the desk) in the Aux mix should be so bad but in bypassing the Soundcraft desk/mixer and using the bass into a Rolls PM351, I can hear my clean bass tone and get a mix of the rest of the band.

I had another thought. On my mixer, you can adjust the EQ of the bus channel. Check to see what is going on it there. This could explain why FOH is fine, your own signal is fine, but the bus mix sounds bad. 
 

What do the others in you band say about your sound in their IEMs?
 

good luck

[warwickhunt]

54 minutes ago, Bassmonkey2510 said:

I had another thought. On my mixer, you can adjust the EQ of the bus channel. Check to see what is going on it there. This could explain why FOH is fine, your own signal is fine, but the bus mix sounds bad. 
 

What do the others in you band say about your sound in their IEMs?
 

good luck

 

I'll check that on Friday @Bassmonkey2510.  I'm not dismissing it but the tone of it defo seems to involve excessive compression + possibly drive/distortion rather than EQ related (unless it is extreme EQ).  You have set me away thinking that if I likened it to anything it would probably be more suited to a guitar tone... I wonder if there is some universal setting on the Aux sends that was engaged by the guitarist who runs the PA.  Not blaming him for sabotage but I wonder if some setting is transferred over to my channel.  

 

As for others, the consensus is that they can hear me but it isn't like the bass tone I get out front or through my cabs when I used them.  I may have said on another thread that this weekend I'm going to plug my IE lead into whatever they plug into and listen to their mix; I'll then know if it is global across the Aux or just my feed.  

 

Thanks for the constructive advice.    

[BigRedX]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC you said the bass sound was fine when you drove your IEMs direct bypassing the desk, so therefore AFAICS the problem looks like it is driver error by whoever is working the mixer. Download yourself a copy of the manual so that you can understand what you are being told when you ask to see the signal path from the bass guitar input on the desk to the output for your IEMs. I suspect that there is either a problem with the gain structure or you have additional processing being applied that is required for the FoH sound but is not needed for your monitor mix.

Edited June 28, 2023 by BigRedX

[warwickhunt]

43 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC you said the bass sound was fine when you drove your IEMs direct bypassing the desk, so therefore AFAICS the problem looks like it is driver error by whoever is working the mixer. Download yourself a copy of the manual so that you can understand what you are being told when you ask to see the signal path from the bass guitar input on the desk to the output for your IEMs. I suspect that there is either a problem with the gain structure or you have additional processing being applied that is required for the FoH sound but is not needed for your monitor mix.

 

This^

 

Absolutely correct, I've checked and rechecked that the bass direct to the P2 to IE is fine as are my pedals to P2>IE (I worked back over to identify where this starts in case it was cumulative) and I'm fine at home with 'my' gear.  The issue starts when I get my Aux send feed from the desk.  I've downloaded the Soundcraft manual and I'm reading/rereading (I need to process some aspects of how this works/is routed etc) so that I am clued up for the weekend.  This has pretty much snowballed from the start of 2023 I'm blissfully playing through my gear and the band has never had complaints or negativity re venue sound, to the present situation where it is silent stage (except drummer) and IEM, no foldback.  I'm not a luddite and I'm happy to do this if it works for the band, audience AND me but I see little genuine benefit for me and not a great deal more for the audience.  

 

As you say @BigRedX, I also suspect that there is something routed/applied to my Aux that shouldn't be and I'll likely find it is a simple click away from compressed/driven mush to crystal clear bass.    

[Chienmortbb]

 

If you have the settings you usually use saves as a show or a snapshot, try loading the INIT setting. As far as I know, it resets everything to default, returning everything to the out-of-the-box setting.

 

[warwickhunt]

INIT setting

 

I'll bear that in mind.  

 

The good thing is I've sourced a Rolls PM351, worst case scenario if I can't sort the mixer issue out I can do a mix of my bass and the desk send (sans bass but with guitar + vocals in that mix) in the Rolls.  

[Muzz]

17 hours ago, Rich said:

 

I politely suggest you wind your neck in a bit.

Can I just say how much I'm enjoying this most British of Mod's Comment? You don't get that sort of thing over the Pond...  😁

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, Muzz said:

Can I just say how much I'm enjoying this most British of Mod's Comment? You don't get that sort of thing over the Pond...  😁

It was either that or "Now look here old chap, this simply isn't cricket, what".

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, Muzz said:

Can I just say how much I'm enjoying this most British of Mod's Comment? You don't get that sort of thing over the Pond...  😁

 

I quite liked @Rich's pontificating braggart!  

[Rich]

No personal insults please folks.

[Jack]

Thinness, compression and drive when connected to a mixer? Sounds almost like it's a level or possibly impedance mismatch somewhere.

[uk_lefty]

I've got a festival gig tonight. Full PA but zero backline and playing early. Going to try and go straight from my MXR M80..... He who dares, etc. 

[scalpy]

59 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

I've got a festival gig tonight. Full PA but zero backline and playing early. Going to try and go straight from my MXR M80..... He who dares, etc. 

Got a similar situation in a few weeks- but my main motivation is the load in is horrendous so it’ll be bass and pedalboard for me!

[uk_lefty]

So.... Got to the venue, soundman tells me they've got 18" subs and I can see there's good quality monitoring so all good. Went ampless, DI pedal to PA. Slight tweak to boost bass on the EQ otherwise everything middle on the pedal. I told the soundman I had a boost pedal and we tested the levels. Problem is on the second song he heard the boost pedal and lowered my overall output so I had to be on boost for the rest of the set with nowhere else to go! 

[Franticsmurf]

11 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

So.... Got to the venue, soundman tells me they've got 18" subs and I can see there's good quality monitoring so all good. Went ampless, DI pedal to PA. Slight tweak to boost bass on the EQ otherwise everything middle on the pedal. I told the soundman I had a boost pedal and we tested the levels. Problem is on the second song he heard the boost pedal and lowered my overall output so I had to be on boost for the rest of the set with nowhere else to go! 

Similarly, I deliberately went quiet for a couple of songs in a gig and the sound man said afterwards 'You suddenly went very quiet in the mix so I turned you up.' The rest of the gig must have been quite bass heavy. 😀

[uk_lefty]

Next week.... Thoroughly chat with soundman! It's a short set so I might even print out the set list and let him know what bass FX will be used, or is that going too far and being all "ME ME ME!!!"?

[0175westwood29]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

Next week.... Thoroughly chat with soundman! It's a short set so I might even print out the set list and let him know what bass FX will be used, or is that going too far and being all "ME ME ME!!!"?

i always have a little chat and also when soundchecking do make a point of going thru all my main sounds and give my loudest that way he knows its parts that may get louder or more bassy. but i alsways have to talk and try and blag three di's for my sub, synth and normal bass di anyway

 

 

[0175westwood29]

 

new direct rig.....mix the 3 di signals in the behringer to get the best mix of the geddy and the ashdown, saving for a two notes torpedo live to add a cab sim aswell

[TeresaFR]

Korg Pitchblack Advance tuner - Wampler Mini Ego compressor - EHX Bass Clone chorus - Fender Hammertone Flanger - MXR Carbon Copy Mini delay - Tech 21 VTBass DI.

 

The delay only gets used on a couple of tracks, as does the flanger. I love a good chorus but sometimes just want some whoosh in my sound. One day I might go in for an HX Stomp or something, but would need to know I could get a really good  80s chorus sound out of it without sacrificing bass content.

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Next week.... Thoroughly chat with soundman! It's a short set so I might even print out the set list and let him know what bass FX will be used, or is that going too far and being all "ME ME ME!!!"?

Not at all, very good idea.

[Franticsmurf]

10 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Next week.... Thoroughly chat with soundman! It's a short set so I might even print out the set list and let him know what bass FX will be used, or is that going too far and being all "ME ME ME!!!"?

It's what I did and as he appreciated the chat. He's our regular sound man and as I'd recently joined the band, he wasn't sure what I was using. I get an excellent sound from the PA now. 😀

[Baloney Balderdash]

10 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Next week.... Thoroughly chat with soundman! It's a short set so I might even print out the set list and let him know what bass FX will be used, or is that going too far and being all "ME ME ME!!!"?

If he is serious about and love his job, and not just do it as a sour chore because no one else wanted to, he ought to appreciate you telling/showing him.

 

Really it would be as much about taking interest in and showing appreciation and respect for his job, as it would be about you and your sound.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[warwickhunt]

I recently spent a few minutes explaining to an in-house engineer that my ampless set up inc a few pedals as I needed to replicate the sound of a 12 string bass (tribute to Cheap Trick).  The first thing he did was produce a DI box and ask me to plug my (4 string) bass into it... Hmmmmm!