Your "Amp-Less" Setup!

[indiegrungesound]

On 19/04/2023 at 21:06, gafbass02 said:

Sadly mine died last week! 

 

😧 Really? That's a bit bobbins good sir! 🙁 Then again, you do have The Dr J Sparrow D.I. Driver too, which I tried once ages ago & found to have a decent drive on it. The Sonicake pedal isn't that dear either if you just want a straight swap out(I've had mine for a couple of years now. It's still working ok, though it's only really had light useage in a rehearsal room, via a P.A.. Hopefully I won't need to replace it yet! 🤞) Also, they're enough cheaper and/or dearer options to replace it with, though I'm sure you know that already! 🙂

[gafbass02]

1 hour ago, indiegrungesound said:

 

😧 Really? That's a bit bobbins good sir! 🙁 Then again, you do have The Dr J Sparrow D.I. Driver too, which I tried once ages ago & found to have a decent drive on it. The Sonicake pedal isn't that dear either if you just want a straight swap out(I've had mine for a couple of years now. It's still working ok, though it's only really had light useage in a rehearsal room, via a P.A.. Hopefully I won't need to replace it yet! 🤞) Also, they're enough cheaper and/or dearer options to replace it with, though I'm sure you know that already! 🙂

Yeah, I may replace it as it’s so handy. It’s Only the preamp foot switch that’s failed, it’s gone a bit unreliable, but I was using it with a full bass cut for the intro of a royal blood song, so now the Dr J does that job and I’ve zoom ms60b in it’s place in the IEM loop. 

[JapanAxe]

Update - bought a smaller case and added a compressor and a smaller power supply.

 

[Lozz196]

I have to admit I’m seriously considering this route too. All my gigs have FOH & stage monitoring so I’m finding more & more reasons to get in on this.

[JapanAxe]

10 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I have to admit I’m seriously considering this route too. All my gigs have FOH & stage monitoring so I’m finding more & more reasons to get in on this.

It’s not my first choice - I’d much rather use my lovely amps and cabs - but on a gig where no-one else is using backline, everyone has IEMs (just bought a setup myself), plus all the kit is travelling in a splitter van, it makes a lot of sense.

[Paul S]

10 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I have to admit I’m seriously considering this route too. All my gigs have FOH & stage monitoring so I’m finding more & more reasons to get in on this.

 

Do it, Lozz.  It doesn't have to cost you a bean, just leave the backline at home (or even in the car first time) to see if you like it.

 

I'll not go back.  It is so liberating not having to worry about backline gear - lifting, storing, maintaining, adjusting.  As long as the monitoring is good enough and FOH is good.

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 08/01/2023 at 12:51, Baloney Balderdash said:

First of all not sure whether this should really had been in the "Effects" sub from instead, but anyway this is the thread for posting and discussing "amp-less" setups, pictures, signal chain listing/description, and as as said discussion, all welcome.

 

 

EDIT!!: This is getting silly, but I revisited my setup once more, so I deleted the original post and instead described my current setup, which I am pretty certain will be the final  incarnation (or at least for now and for a foreseeable future).

 

 

Mine is fairly complex because I by choice do not really use a dedicated bass preamp and cab simulator, but rather have these functions covered by a selection of multiple gain and EQ stages, which has the advantage of giving me much more flexibility in terms of tone building while still predominantly keeping it analog (in my case all analog except for the reverb and faux, EQ based, cab sim).

 

However I am in the process of completely rearranging my pedal setup/board from scratch, because I recently went back to mainly playing my 4 string bass, tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E1 standard tuning), played mainly using various finger picking techniques, rather than my Harley Benton GuitarBass, which is a take on the Fender Bass VI concept, also tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 10 half steps bellow regular guitar E2 standard tuning), played mainly using pick, and with an always on 1 octave up effect (using a TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini pedal for an effect somewhat similar to that of a 12 string guitar/8 string bass. Same is used for this new setup, but not as an always on effect, and using somewhat different settings, for one the 1 octave up effect is not quite as prominent, being dialed in a couple of dB lower, as well as there is a slight difference in the octave up output EQ of the Toneprint used), so can't really post any pictures at this point, but here's a signal chain description of the always on part that creates my core basic "clean" tone, the actual "amp-less" setup so to speak, which I at this point have put together and tested to the point where I am fairly certain that this is how it will actually also end up :

 

 

Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (with the stock P + J pickup pulled out and replaced for a single EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, tuned in F# standard tuning, that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, and strung with regular Elixir Nanoweb coated nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core guitar strings of the gauges .080 - .062 - .046 - .036) ->>

 

As the very first thing in the chain, right after the bass :

->> Mosky XP Booster (Xotic XP Booster V1 clone, run at 18V with both internal dip switches disengaged, which results in a slight bass/low mids boost, and beside that also adding saturation, emphasing and adding harmonic content, as well as altering the phase of certain frequency areas of the signal, all in all, giving a sense of extra depth, or  extra, 3D, dimension if you will, to the tone) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> (empty effects loop used as clean/dry signal mix) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo American Sound (all analog emulation of a Fender amp style preamp/drive, dialed in with an about +3dB pre gain stage boost to a wide curve around the center frequency 800Hz, then a post gain stage about +2dB boost to a wide curve around the center frequency 400Hz, and finally an about -1dB cut to a wide curve around the center frequency 3.2kHz (looks like a Q value of about 1 or so to me for all of these EQ controls), and gain dialed in to just around the verge of the breakup point, also includes an analog filter meant to emulate a cab's high frequency roll off, basically just being a steep about 6kHz or so LPF, as well as there is a, much much lesser, slight roll off bellow about 50Hz or so *), always mixed with clean/dry {Mosky XP Booster} signal from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>>

 

Then as the very last thing in the signal chain, before the poweramp and FRFR PA speaker :

->> Zoom B1Xon (acting mainly as my main reverb unit, having a very subtle plate reverb stacked into a subtle spring reverb as part of my basic "clean" tone, but additionally also functioning as a simple faux, EQ based, cab sim, utilizing a dual band parametric equalizer model, set as follows: [Freq=12kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], approximately mimicking a LPF set @ 3.6kHz -12dB/Oct, added after the main reverb, as well as to every other patch used on this unit) ->> EHX Black Finger (tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to deliver a very mild compression, which due to the fact that it compresses the high end slightly more than the low end also effectively boosts the low end slightly, the tubes driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with the build in HPF, fixed @ 40Hz -12dB/Oct, engaged, and the tube driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) 

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging  // ->> Home practice // ->> Home recordings //  : 

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> Effects Return (poweramp input) of a Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W combo amp, with the build in speaker disconnect and instead hooked up to a passive PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (passive full range flat frequency response PA speaker with 1x 15"  woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice  ->> The Mix Mix 502 (mixer) ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (studio grade, that is FRFR, headphones) // ->> Home recordings ->> M-Audio Fast Track (audio interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) //

 

*) Frequency response of Joyo American Sound : https://www.tdpri.com/threads/joyo-american-vs-tech21-blonde-comparison-many-graphs.786013/

 

 

This gives me a very realistic/authentic, just around the breakup point, bass tube amp like response and tone, but while not being too obstructive to and letting the natural tone of my bass shine through, regardless of whether I use it at home, practicing though a headphones preamp and my studio grade (just meaning FRFR) headphone, record the bass DI'ed through it, run it into a power amp and a FRFR speaker/cab/PA at band rehearsal, or though a venue's PA system at gigs, which to me is exactly the greatest advantage of utilizing an "amp-less" setup, consistence of tone.

 

The higher tuning of the bass allows for lower gauge strings which again makes it possible to obtain some of that harmonically rich piano like tone, otherwise not possible to obtain with the thick gauge strings that a regular E standard tuning would require on the just 28.6" scale length of this bass, beside also actually being better suited for the more melodic/riff based playing that I utilizes it for, that is in the context of bass and drums duo, as well as jamming just with a drummer (F# standard tuning actually being the traditional upright acoustic bass tuning used for bass solo pieces in classical music).

 

 

For reference this was how my pedal board looked before this rearrangement, used for my Harley Benton GuitarBass :

 

 

Also if weight is no issue I can warmly recommend the budget The Box PA 502, 300W passive PA speaker, for use as a FRFR speaker/cab, really amazing tone, very neutral faithful recreation of whatever you feed it with, and with an outstanding low end frequency response (better even than most higher end passive PA speakers), that both reproduces the low end of my bass/rig and sounds better than my much more expensive SWR 15" + 10" + Tweeter Horn dedicated bass cab.

 

 

!!! Edit 2/Update !!! :

 

Still haven't got around completely rearranging my big main board, but I got a NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI (NBP-5) in the meantime, and pretty sure following is how the core of my "amp-less" setup is going to look going forward:

 

Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (with the stock P + J pickup pulled out and replaced for a single EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, tuned in G standard tuning, that is 3 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, and strung with regular Elixir Nanoweb coated nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core guitar strings of the gauges .080 - .062 - .046 - .036) ->>

 

As the very first thing in the chain, right after the bass :

->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (used exclusively for a customized 1 octave up effect, that is used always applied, relatively subtly, to my high gain distortion/fuzz setup, to improve definition and articulation, though it actually does add some extra heft as well) ->> XVive V16 Undulator  (tremolo, though used exclusively for it's really effective buffer and is never actually engaged) ->> EHX Black Finger (always on tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to deliver a very mild compression, which due to the fact that it compresses the high end slightly more than the low end also effectively boosts the low end slightly, the tubes driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (effect loops mixer/switch, used for my high gain distortion/fuzz setup, always with the {1 octave up -> Clean signal} from the Sub'N'Up Mini stacked into it) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Mosky Black Rat (RAT clone, used on a high gain setting in Turbo RAT mode, always used with the 1 octave up effect from the Sub'N'Up stacked into it and blended with {Orange Juice -> Metal Zone} from parallel effects [Loop B Send])  ->> Behringer SF300 Super Fuzz (high gain fuzz, clone of the Boss FZ-2 Hyper Fuzz, which again is a take of the legendary Univox Superfuzz octave fuzz circuit, always used with the 1 octave up effect from the Sub'N'Up stacked into the Boss LS-2, and then either blended with clean signal or {Orange Juice -> Metal Zone} from parallel [Loop B Send]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (used for a low gain overdrive, and always stacked into the Metal Zone in front of it, always with the 1 octave up effect from the Sub'N'Up stacked into the Boss LS-2, and blended with either the Mosky Black Rat or Behringer Super Fuzz from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> Boss MT-2 Metal Zone (used on a relatively moderate gain setting, always with the Orange Juice overdrive stacked into it, and always with the 1 octave up effect from the Sub'N'Up stacked into the Boss LS-2, and blended with either the Mosky Black Rat or Behringer Super Fuzz from parallel effects [Loop A])  ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> 

 

Then as the very last thing in the signal chain, before the poweramp and FRFR PA speaker :

->> Zoom B1Xon (acting mainly as my always on main reverb unit, having a very subtle plate reverb stacked into a subtle spring reverb as part of my basic "clean" tone, but additionally also function as my general reverb pedal for other reverb effects, as well as a few additional other effects) ->> NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI (NBP-5) (always on bass preamp, IR loader and DI, used with the Aguilar Tone Hammer amp emulation and the stock Ampeg SV-212 2x12 + high frequency tweeter IR cab simulation, with the main EQ set as following: Bass (+/-18dB @ 40Hz) 2 o'clock, Mid (+/-17dB) 3 o'clock, Mid Freq (180Hz-1kHz) 2 o'clock, Treble (+/-18dB @ 4kHz) 1 o'clock, the HPF of the cab sim set to 40Hz, and the LPF set to just bellow 14kHz, and always with the build in drive engaged, the Drive control set at 9 o'clock and the drive/clean blend at noon) ->>

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging  // ->> Home practice // ->> Home recordings //  : 

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> Effects Return (poweramp input) of a Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W combo amp, with the build in speaker disconnect and instead hooked up to a passive PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (passive full range flat frequency response PA speaker with 1x 15"  woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice  ->> Headphone output of NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (studio grade, that is FRFR, headphones) // ->> Home recordings ->> M-Audio Fast Track (audio interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) //

 

 

 

 

On 29/04/2023 at 21:38, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

From the ""Amp-less" setup" thread:

On 08/01/2023 at 12:51, Baloney Balderdash said:

Mine is fairly complex because I by choice do not really use a dedicated bass preamp and cab simulator, but rather have these functions covered by a selection of multiple gain and EQ stages, which has the advantage of giving me much more flexibility in terms of tone building while still predominantly keeping it analog (in my case all analog except for the reverb and faux, EQ based, cab sim).

 

However I am in the process of completely rearranging my pedal setup/board from scratch, because I recently went back to mainly playing my 4 string bass, tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E1 standard tuning), played mainly using various finger picking techniques, rather than my Harley Benton GuitarBass, which is a take on the Fender Bass VI concept, also tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 10 half steps bellow regular guitar E2 standard tuning), played mainly using pick, and with an always on 1 octave up effect (using a TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini pedal for an effect somewhat similar to that of a 12 string guitar/8 string bass. Same is used for this new setup, but not as an always on effect, and using somewhat different settings, for one the 1 octave up effect is not quite as prominent, being dialed in a couple of dB lower, as well as there is a slight difference in the octave up output EQ of the Toneprint used), so can't really post any pictures at this point, but here's a signal chain description of the always on part that creates my core basic "clean" tone, the actual "amp-less" setup so to speak, which I at this point have put together and tested to the point where I am fairly certain that this is how it will actually also end up :

 

 

Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (with the stock P + J pickup pulled out and replaced for a single EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, tuned in F# standard tuning, that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, and strung with regular Elixir Nanoweb coated nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core guitar strings of the gauges .080 - .062 - .046 - .036) ->>

 

As the very first thing in the chain, right after the bass :

->> XVive V16 Undulator  (tremolo, though used exclusively for it's really effective buffer and is never actually engaged) ->> EHX Black Finger (always on tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to deliver a very mild compression, which due to the fact that it compresses the high end slightly more than the low end also effectively boosts the low end slightly, the tubes driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) ->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (used exclusively for a customized 1 octave up effect, that is used always applied, relatively subtly, to my high gain distortion/fuzz setup, to improve definition and articulation, though it actually does add some extra heft and depth as well) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (effect loops mixer/switch, used for my high gain distortion setup, always with the {1 octave up -> Clean signal} from the Sub'N'Up Mini stacked into it) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Mosky Black Rat (RAT clone, used on a high gain setting in Turbo RAT mode, always used with the 1 octave up effect from the Sub'N'Up stacked into it and blended with {Orange Juice -> Metal Zone} from parallel effects [Loop B Send]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (used for a low gain overdrive, and always stacked into the Metal Zone in front of it, always with the 1 octave up effect from the Sub'N'Up stacked into the Boss LS-2, and always blended with the Mosky Black Rat from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> Boss MT-2 Metal Zone (used on a relatively moderate gain setting, always with the Orange Juice overdrive stacked into it, and always with the 1 octave up effect from the Sub'N'Up stacked into the Boss LS-2, and blended with either the Mosky Black Rat or Behringer Super Fuzz from parallel effects [Loop A])  ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Orange Juice (medium gain overdrive) ->>

 

Then as the very last thing in the signal chain, before the poweramp and FRFR PA speaker :

->> Zoom B1Xon (acting mainly as my always on main reverb unit, having a very subtle plate reverb stacked into a subtle spring reverb as part of my basic "clean" tone, but additionally also function as my general reverb pedal for other reverb effects, as well as a few additional other effects) ->> NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI (NBP-5) (always on bass preamp, IR loader and DI, used with the Aguilar Tone Hammer amp emulation and the stock Ampeg SV-212 2x12 + high frequency tweeter IR cab simulation, with the main EQ set as following: Bass (+/-18dB @ 40Hz) 2 o'clock, Mid (+/-17dB) 3 o'clock, Mid Freq (180Hz-1kHz) 1 o'clock, Treble (+/-18dB @ 4kHz) 1 o'clock, the HPF of the cab sim set to 40Hz, and the LPF set to just bellow 14kHz, and always with the build in drive engaged, the Drive control set at 9 o'clock and the drive/clean blend at noon) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with build in HPF, fixed @40Hz -12dB/Oct, engaged, tube driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) ->>

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging  // ->> Home practice // ->> Home recordings //  : 

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> Effects Return (poweramp input) of a Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W combo amp, with the build in speaker disconnect and instead hooked up to a passive PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (passive full range flat frequency response PA speaker with 1x 15"  woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice  ->> Headphone output of NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (studio grade, that is FRFR, headphones) // ->> Home recordings ->> M-Audio Fast Track (audio interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) //

 

 

That is:

Bass -> Buffer -> Subtle Compression + Tube Preamp Stage -> [octave up effect, used exclusively in conjunction with distortion/fuzz] ->[modulation/various other effects -> dist/fuzz/OD] -> Subtle Reverb -> [reverb/various other effects -> delay] -> Digital Amp Emulation + IR Cab Simulation -> Tube Preamp + DI -> Poweramp -> FRFR PA Speaker

 

 

This gives me a very realistic/authentic, just around the breakup point, bass tube amp like response and tone, but while not being too obstructive to and letting the natural tone of my bass shine through, regardless of whether I use it at home, practicing though a headphones preamp and my studio grade (just meaning FRFR) headphone, record the bass DI'ed through it, run it into a power amp and a FRFR speaker/cab/PA at band rehearsal, or though a venue's PA system at gigs, which to me is exactly the greatest advantage of utilizing an "amp-less" setup, consistence of tone.

 

The higher tuning of the bass allows for lower gauge strings which again makes it possible to obtain some of that harmonically rich piano like tone, otherwise not possible to obtain with the thick gauge strings that a regular E standard tuning would require on the just 28.6" scale length of this bass, beside also actually being better suited for the more melodic/riff based playing that I utilizes it for, that is in the context of bass and drums duo, as well as jamming just with a drummer (F# standard tuning actually being the traditional upright acoustic bass tuning used for bass solo pieces in classical music).

 

 

For reference this was how my pedal board looked before this rearrangement, used for my Harley Benton GuitarBass :

 

 

Also if weight is no issue I can warmly recommend the budget The Box PA 502, 300W passive PA speaker, for use as a FRFR speaker/cab, really amazing tone, very neutral faithful recreation of whatever you feed it with, and with an outstanding low end frequency response (better even than most higher end passive PA speakers), that both reproduces the low end of my bass/rig and sounds better than my much more expensive SWR 15" + 10" + Tweeter Horn dedicated bass cab.

 

 

 

Still haven't got around to setting up the new updated and completely rearranged board, so this is how my temporary totally scrapped down pedal setup looks at the moment (signal chain is listed in the above quoted post):

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

It’s not my first choice - I’d much rather use my lovely amps and cabs - but on a gig where no-one else is using backline, everyone has IEMs (just bought a setup myself), plus all the kit is travelling in a splitter van, it makes a lot of sense.

 

1 hour ago, Paul S said:

 

Do it, Lozz.  It doesn't have to cost you a bean, just leave the backline at home (or even in the car first time) to see if you like it.

 

I'll not go back.  It is so liberating not having to worry about backline gear - lifting, storing, maintaining, adjusting.  As long as the monitoring is good enough and FOH is good.

I have done it before, at the time it wasn’t my preference as getting levels in monitors for the rest of the band was tricky (as in they were awkward) but now I feel that needs must, my back is going to dictate this direction.
 

I’ve  got a pedalboard amp for gigs where there’s a provided cab, for gigs where there won’t be a provided rig I’ll do the ampless thing from now on.

[krispn]

I didn’t realised I had a gif on Friday night and had to high tail

it to the venue knowing I could do it iem so grabbed my gear bag, tube di and my bass and set off. Nice sound but missed the amp behind me but happy with the sound. Only bummer was I’d updates my cab ir pedal and didn’t realise it had reset and wiped everthing so no cab sim but a bit of eq’ing sorted that. 

[Chopthebass]

I’m working on an amp less rig, but can also drive a power amp. Lots of memories, and also song mode. 

[Lfalex v1.1]

As I'm not gigging or in a band at the moment, I'm getting by nicely with a Nux mighty plug stuck in the back of a Zoom B3.

The Nux does the amp modelling and cab IRs, leaving the B3 free for comp, OD and modulation/delay.

 

If I use the Nux alone,  I can run from battery power,  including playing music from my phone's SD card,  for about 3-4 hours. 

Good for practising on holiday or during power cuts.

 

If I go back to gigging, unless the rest of the band are using IEMs, I guess a backline will be required. 

[IanA]

Looking forward to giving this mini board a couple of outings this weekend…

The Starlifter absolutely kills!

Absolutely No mud here… Crystal clear fat bass tones, and as for the lights… 😎

[FiestaRed]

At this point I'm only using my Fender Precision bass and a guitar cable. Every gig I had in the past few months had a PA system and a sound guy with a bag full of DI boxes, so I just plugged in, and that was that.

 

That's been fine for FOH, but stage volume is another issue. A couple of times there weren't any stage monitors, so I couldn't really hear myself.

Edited May 30, 2023 by FiestaRed

[Bassmonkey2510]

So I run the sound for my band. We have an XR18 mixer. Currently I go through a Aguilar Octomizer, then Ampeg Scrambler for dirt when needed, then my Speactracomp. After that I go direct to the mixer. 
 

At the mixer, I run an amp cab sim in the FX rack.

 

I stood and A/B’d my Quilter Bass Block 800 and Barefaced SC with the PA to try and match the tone and I was able to do it. 
 

The on board amp cab sims have saved me a small fortune. Check them out if you have the same tech. 
 

there is a part of me that feels that although I care what I sound like, most people listening couldn’t care less. Maybe we all over think these things. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Bassmonkey2510

[Franticsmurf]

2 hours ago, Bassmonkey2510 said:

there is a part of me that feels that although I care what I sound like, most people listening couldn’t care less. Maybe we all over think these things

I've often thought this - recently I've been rehearsing in a series of different spaces (big hall, small hall, medium sized recording studio) and I always record the rehearsals on a small Tascam digital recorder. The sound varies so much, like it does in venues, that it seems pointless tweaking the sound to perfection for anything other than a studio recording session.  

[Baloney Balderdash]

If you are playing for the sake of the people who couldn't care less if you do or not why then even bother playing?

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Pea Turgh]

Don’t think that was the point.  The average audience member doesn’t give a hoot about how much upper mids in the bass they can hear, just “does it make me want to dance?”.

[Baloney Balderdash]

46 minutes ago, Pea Turgh said:

Don’t think that was the point.  The average audience member doesn’t give a hoot about how much upper mids in the bass they can hear, just “does it make me want to dance?”.

Well, I think that really depends on the music being played.

 

At a Top 40 hits cover band gig, sure, at an avantgarde free jazz gig, probably not so much.

 

Personally I don't make music for the average person.

 

Your average person doesn't really care for music, certainly not music as an art form, they care about being entertained, and the medium really is secondary to them.

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Jack]

It's wild the different approaches to this. I play in two covers band and whilst I'm never anal about being 100% on anything I do try to make an effort with my helix to match tones a bit and do some of the wibbly synth parts. I switch between pick and fingers and I'm also mostly ampless. However, the very nice guy who deps for me plays a Sire V7 (100% fingerstyle) into a Markbass with no effects of any kind and doesn't touch the eq all night. His stage volume means he's not in the pa much.

 

I'm not sure anyone in the audience has ever noticed that the bass player is different, never mind the difference in tones.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Jack

[nottswarwick]

My best sound in ages last night was/

 

Stingray - Korg Pitchblack - Radial JDI 

 

then Xlr to FOH and the “thru” output into RCF 732 a for a touch of stage sound.

 

Thought I’d try the JDI instead of BDDI. Worked very well.

[uk_lefty]

On 30/04/2023 at 23:06, Lozz196 said:

I have to admit I’m seriously considering this route too. All my gigs have FOH & stage monitoring so I’m finding more & more reasons to get in on this.

One of the guitarists has gone IEM and he raves about hearing souch more detail in the sound than he did before. We are going to try "silent" practice as a band because we've got most of the gear and buying the few extras we need costs less than two hired rehearsal room sessions. Now the drummer has been on electronic kit for some time we could well go this way for gigs. I do love standing in front of my two fifteens and ABM 600 but realistically I think they will be getting less and less use, especially now I have to kart a sub to the gigs which may take up the space I use for one of my cabs. At the end of the day the sound quality for the audience is worth more than me enjoying the push of a few big speakers beside me.

[Franticsmurf]

I have been using IEM for one of the bands I'm in for about a year but I've never quite been able to wean myself off the backline. But yesterday I played an open air gig with them and due to the stage set-up my back line was at the back of the stage with two people between me and it. I was really happy with the IEM mix (our permanent sound man is very good at getting a decent mix) and so I decided to leave the back line off. Our keyboard player was happy as my speakers were right behind her. There was enough spill from the PA and the monitor speakers to let me feel the bass, and my IEM mix was spot on. I can't see me going back to on stage amps with this band. 

 

I played with another band yesterday - a three piece - and although we used the same FOH and sound man, for most of our gigs we won't have a full PA and so I'll be sticking with the on stage amps for that.

[krispn]

It’s nice when you can have an amp on stage along with iem to feel the low end and in a pinch iem only is fine but it’s nice to pop the iems out and listen to your amp trundling away behind you. That’s how I tend to run things for my two main venues. 

[warwickhunt]

Pic and brief background + my initial thoughts on amp less/IEM

 

 

Plethora - essentially there for me to attempt to replicate the sound of a 12 string... not proving to be so easy and a bit of reverb/delay for the acoustic guitar.

Fishman - a really nice clean pre that isn't too coloured but gives me a notch filter (useful Hofner Club bass being hollow) and a LPF but no IR/cab sim/drive.

Sansamp Para DI - recent replacement of my Sansamp DI.  Gives me the cab sim and a bit of drive which the Fishman doesn't.

 

I've played bass 45 years always with amp + cab.  Presently play in a Dad's rock/pop/ covers band (more of which later) and a tribute to Cheap Trick band + a duo where I play acoustic guitar (Fishman has a switch to select between guitar/bass EQ).  

 

The guy who is main man and guitarist in the covers band owns the PA (RCF 715 tops) and bought a Soundcraft UI16 (or whatever) and went full IE no backline, which he has encouraged me to do as it gives more control and a better experience for the audience.  Now this it may do but we are having ongoing issues due to the frankly awful IE sound I get of the bass; it doesn't even sound like a bass, never mind MY bass but it is fine FOH.  This is where @Baloney Balderdash touched upon my main gripe with band sound; I play music for my enjoyment as much as the punters and if I'm frankly hating what I hear, then why do it?  I've taken a long time to conclude that while playing average music, for an average audience in a frankly average pub may pay me more and with greater frequency than being more selective, I've voiced that I won't be playing just what the average p*ssed up punter wants to hear and I won't be playing in some of the flat top, estate pubs where a live band could as easily be replaced with karaoke.  Quality gigs, even if at reduced fees and less often is the future with me and I'm going to sort out this IEM sound issue or I'm going back to amps/cabs and plugs for attenuation.  

 

Oddly the tribute band has had the same issue with IE sound as it is the same PA/guitarist until Friday night when we used in-house engineer and a very big/nice Yamaha desk... no issues with sound whatsoever BUT I had no control of mix once we started and the band mix seemed to skew and I struggled to hear things.  Hey ho, we shall see.   

 

[FiestaRed]

It's getting to the point I almost don't even bother bringing my own DI box to a gig anymore. Every place we've played lately has had multiple DI boxes on the stage. So bass and cable are enough.

 

I've been happy with the sound, and I've been told the bass is strong and clear FOH as well. Since I use public transportation, this is a huge improvement.