Your "Amp-Less" Setup!

[Baloney Balderdash]

11 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

I recently spent a few minutes explaining to an in-house engineer that my ampless set up inc a few pedals as I needed to replicate the sound of a 12 string bass (tribute to Cheap Trick).  The first thing he did was produce a DI box and ask me to plug my (4 string) bass into it... Hmmmmm!  

I keep hearing these horror stories about soundmen apparently only taking up the responsibility of being in charge of the sound cause they love to and have made it their screwed up life mission to ruin everyone's live music experiences as much as possible.

 

And my faith in humanity by now is sufficiently low enough to actually believe this to be true, but that said I only have had good experiences with all the soundmen I've ever encountered when playing live.

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[joel406]

Question:

 

What is everyone using for their ampless setups?

 

I'm using several setups depending on whatever mood I'm in.

A Mesa Subway preamp DI with Keely compressor pro.

A Mesa Subway + preamp DI with compression (Keely pro).

Sadowsky Preamp DI with compression.

Le Bass Preamp DI with compression.

Quad cortex. Obviously, this is an all-in-one package.

 

I love the Keely Compressor pro. But I also have the MXR and the Empress. I also have chorus. But if I get into anything effect heavy, I would just use the Quad cortex.

 

Just looking to see what's tipping the boats out there. I find the Noble preamp interesting. I've had the chance to hear them live a couple of times and they do bring it. But the QC as well as my other DIs seem to do just as well.

 

I have the Boss B6. Just not a fan. Noisy. Not as easy to use as the QC or even the straight pedal DI.

 

 

[BigRedX]

As I said earlier in the Thread: Line 6 Helix straight into the PA either with whatever DI box the PA has or my EMO Passive DI (my preferred route).

[Baloney Balderdash]

35 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

As I said earlier in the Thread: Line 6 Helix straight into the PA either with whatever DI box the PA has or my EMO Passive DI (my preferred route).

I thought the Helix had an XLR line out, is that not the case, but if so why then use an additional DI box?

[Lozz196]

10 hours ago, joel406 said:

Question:

 

What is everyone using for their ampless setups?

 

I'm using several setups depending on whatever mood I'm in.

A Mesa Subway preamp DI with Keely compressor pro.

A Mesa Subway + preamp DI with compression (Keely pro).

Sadowsky Preamp DI with compression.

Le Bass Preamp DI with compression.

Quad cortex. Obviously, this is an all-in-one package.

 

I love the Keely Compressor pro. But I also have the MXR and the Empress. I also have chorus. But if I get into anything effect heavy, I would just use the Quad cortex.

 

Just looking to see what's tipping the boats out there. I find the Noble preamp interesting. I've had the chance to hear them live a couple of times and they do bring it. But the QC as well as my other DIs seem to do just as well.

 

I have the Boss B6. Just not a fan. Noisy. Not as easy to use as the QC or even the straight pedal DI.

 

 

Mine will be (as not done it yet) Sansamp BDDI v2. 

[BigRedX]

35 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

I thought the Helix had an XLR line out, is that not the case, but if so why then use an additional DI box?

 

Three reasons.:

 

1. If I'm using my RCF745 FRFR as an on-stage monitor I connect that via the XLR output.

2. Using a passive DI box protects the Helix from any inadvertent attempt to feed it phantom power. Modern devices that don't need phantom power should be built to ignore it, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

3. I have the volume control configured so that it only affects the XLR outputs and the jack sockets always send at full volume. This means that if I'm using the FRFR I can control my on-stage level without affecting when is being sent to the PA. Using a separate DI vis the jack means that I don't have to mess about changing settings so that the XLR is also sending at full volume (and I won't get a nasty surprise at the next rehearsal because I forgot to change it back).

[asingardenof]

On the occasions I've had to go ampless (once only partially as I still used my rig on stage for a monitor) I've gone bass -> Behringer BDI21 -> PA. 

[krispn]

My ampless set up is:

Comp>preamp DI out>Element 

Sounds great! 

[Bassman68]

The heart of my sound these days is an EBS Microbass3 in various guises, but as my needs are simple I don’t require much in the way of effects for my main gig..

With it’s eq & drive,compression & tuner, that’s me sorted for most of the time.

D.I ‘d out to the desk & back through IEM’s…

[TeresaFR]

5 hours ago, Bassman68 said:

The heart of my sound these days is an EBS Microbass3 in various guises, but as my needs are simple I don’t require much in the way of effects for my main gig..

With it’s eq & drive,compression & tuner, that’s me sorted for most of the time.

D.I ‘d out to the desk & back through IEM’s…

How good is the drive, tuner and comp on the Microbass 3?

[Bassman68]

1 hour ago, TeresaFR said:

How good is the drive, tuner and comp on the Microbass 3?

In order…

I like the overdrive, it’ll go from subtle to fuzz but don’t expect ‘Darkglass’…

The tuner just works, registers a low B on my 5 strings, I like the mute facility between sets..

The compressor isn’t overpowering, nothing complicated (just one control) but it evens things out, even on my passive J-basses..It’s not noisy, the way certain comp pedals can be?
 

l like the EBS tone, so much so I’m looking to sell what’s left of my existing backline to get a Magni 2x10 combo to handle gigs that require an amp.

[Killerfridge]

I've just removed a load of stuff from the board, but this is essentially the ampless set-up, with the DI 2112 being interchangeable with a VT Bass DI depending on the gig:

[warwickhunt]

5 minutes ago, Killerfridge said:

I've just removed a load of stuff from the board, but this is essentially the ampless set-up, with the DI 2112 being interchangeable with a VT Bass DI depending on the gig:

 

Just out of interest what does the 2112 give or not give that the VT gives (or not gives)?

 

Can one do something the other can't?

 

[Killerfridge]

33 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Just out of interest what does the 2112 give or not give that the VT gives (or not gives)?

 

Can one do something the other can't?

 

 

Key differences for me:

DI 2112:

* Two parallel channels - so you can do the "driven top end, clean low end" sound, or as I'm currently using it to give a super warm saturated tone with a punchy underneath.

* Each preamp has it's own output so you can let the sound engineer combine them as sounds best, or blend the two in the box and send them one output

* Sweepable mids

* Ridiculous amount of tone shaping potential in a single box

 

VT Bass Deluxe:

* Does the Ampeg sound, and does it well

* Simple to dial in a good useable sound

* Footswitchable

 

If I don't know what I'm playing ahead of time I'll probably take the VT, as I just 'know' the settings to get a great sound, whereas I need more time to tinker to find the sound I want with the DI 2112; I'm sure that will change as I get more familiar with it!

[TeresaFR]

1 hour ago, Killerfridge said:

 

Key differences for me:

DI 2112:

* Two parallel channels - so you can do the "driven top end, clean low end" sound, or as I'm currently using it to give a super warm saturated tone with a punchy underneath.

* Each preamp has it's own output so you can let the sound engineer combine them as sounds best, or blend the two in the box and send them one output

* Sweepable mids

* Ridiculous amount of tone shaping potential in a single box

 

VT Bass Deluxe:

* Does the Ampeg sound, and does it well

* Simple to dial in a good useable sound

* Footswitchable

 

If I don't know what I'm playing ahead of time I'll probably take the VT, as I just 'know' the settings to get a great sound, whereas I need more time to tinker to find the sound I want with the DI 2112; I'm sure that will change as I get more familiar with it!

Unless I'm missing something, the 2112 doesn't have an inbuilt cab sim (or it does but it's not defeatable like on the VT). 

[Killerfridge]

8 hours ago, TeresaFR said:

Unless I'm missing something, the 2112 doesn't have an inbuilt cab sim (or it does but it's not defeatable like on the VT). 

It does, it's just not defeatable; I have the VT Deluxe and it's not defeatable on that either!

[TeresaFR]

55 minutes ago, Killerfridge said:

It does, it's just not defeatable; I have the VT Deluxe and it's not defeatable on that either!

Ah, fair enough. I recently had to be reminded that the button the VT was a defeat and to stop deactivating the cab sim.

[AndyFereday]

Hi All,

 

I moved on to a (sort-of) amp-less FRFR setup last year. I was playing with a covers band and running the PA so I had a good idea of what I was working with as it was my stuff! I tend to go for a fairly pared-down setup anyways as all that fiddling around with pedals just gets lost when it's in the middle of a band. So I was just running through a Peterson Strobestomp into a Laney Digbeth with chorus in the effects loop and a DI into the PA.

 

At home my setup is a bit different for recording because I recently discovered TC Helicon's SCF. Stereo effects! It was like the first time I heard a Sony Walkman! The home / recording setup is Peterson strobostomp into an Ampeg PF-500 amp head (got to love an Ampeg!). I take a DI feed out of that to one channel of my Zoom R16 and another feed out of the effects send. That goes into the TC SCF (which has its own line level preamp) then into Vortex Flanger - Flashback 2 Delay - Hall of Fame 2 Reverb (all of these are line-level stereo pedals) into a stereo channel on a Mackie pro-FX 8 mixer. The stereo output from that goes into two channels of the Zoom R16. I have a boss EQ20 which I can use after the tuner if I need, but I get most of my EQ from the Ampeg. I'm waiting for a TC Dark Matter distortion pedal to arrive to play around with. I can use most of that setup for guitars and my violin too - I use the boss EQ into a DI pedal to take a separate dry feed to the Zoom R16 and it only takes a minute to switch over.

 

You would have thought that would create a lot of noise but it's actually astonishingly clean and clear of hum. That might be down to the Joyo noise canceller on the power supply or the MyVolts crazy chain power leads, not sure.

Edited July 23, 2023 by AndyFereday
Edited to add details of power supply

[krispn]

On 12/07/2023 at 20:14, Killerfridge said:

I've just removed a load of stuff from the board, but this is essentially the ampless set-up, with the DI 2112 being interchangeable with a VT Bass DI depending on the gig:

I'm just sitting here playing my rig into headphones and the Element just ties everything together. If Lebowski had a pedal board the Element would be his 'rug'!

Does make me want to add another comp pedal to the Di out as it really does a fine job. There is space for one so...

[jezzaboy]

After a few weeks in the studio going back and forwards between an ABM 500 / 15" speaker and my RCF 715, the RCF is the winner. We are a loud band and tbh, the RCF performs as well as the Ashdown set up and is a easy one hand lift.

 

I have gigged in a small pub with the RCF and it was plenty loud enough but always felt the need to use a traditional amp and cab set up most times. Signal path is so easy: bass - tuner - Sans amp bass driver di - RCF.

 

So, I`m sorted for now 

[Baloney Balderdash]

*Doh!* 

 

Double post...

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash
*Doh!* - Double post...

[Baloney Balderdash]

Yet another rendition:

 

On 12/08/2023 at 12:30, Baloney Balderdash said:

At the moment I am in the process of a complete rearrangement of my pedal setup, which is part of my "amp-less" setup, but this is how it most likely is going to end up (I have used an online pedal board organizing app to do this, it was lacking some of my pedals, so I have used the ones that had the closest resemblance to the actual pedals of mine missing, and numbered those, so I could list what they represent):

 

1 : Danelectro FAB Metal

2: EHX Black Finger

3: HoTone Trem

4: Mosky Black Rat

5: Mosky XP Booster (secured under the pedal board)

6: XVive Undulator (secured under the pedal board)

7: Monarch MFL-22 Stereo Flanger

8: Joyo Oxford Sound

9: ART Tube MP Project Series (the picture doesn't resemble this ART tube preamp at all, other than by approximate size)

10: Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser (this is a picture of the correct pedal, just partially covered by a pedal that is to be secured under the board)

11: Zoom B1Xon

 

Quote

 

My entire signal chain explained in written form  (currently in the process of rearranging my setup, following is the most likely outcome) :

 

(*pedals listed in [ red/bold/underline text ] are "always on" effects*)

 

 

4 string 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (equipped with an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, and strung with Elixir Nanoweb coated nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core guitar strings, gauge .068 - .052 - .038 - .028, tuned in tenor bass, A standard, tuning, that is as the 4 upper strings of a 6 string bass in regular B standard tuning) ->

 

->> XVive Undulator (tremolo pedal, but never actually engaged and used exclusively for its great buffer) ->> EHX Black Finger (tube driven optical compressor, with 2 preamp tubes operating at proper high 300V plate voltage, mainly used as a tube preamp stage, driven to just at the edge of the tubes's breakup point, but with some very subtle compression dialed in as well) ->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (used exclusively for an 1 octave up effect, delivered by a custom made Toneprint, dialed in to mimic an 8 string bass/12 string guitar, to fill out more sonic space, mostly used in conjunction with my high gain distortion setup) ->> DigiTech FreqOut (feedback generator) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Monarch MFL-22 Stereo Flanger (sometimes stacked into the HoTone tremolo in front of it, and always mixed with either clean signal or the Behringer phaser from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> HoTone Trem (tremolo, sometimes used with the Monarch Stereo Flanger behind it stacked into it, and always mixed with either clean signal, or sometimes the Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser, from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser (clone of the original big box EHX Small Stone phaser, used with Color switch engaged for deep sweep and high resonance/feedback, and always mixed with the Monarch MFL-22 Stereo Flanger from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an approximate 50/50 ratio) => [LS-2 Output] }=>->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Mosky Black Rat (RAT clone, in Turbo RAT, LED diode clipping, mode, quite raunchy, fuzz-esque, high gain distortion, always used mixed with the {Orange Juice -> Metal Zone} from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Behringer SF300 Super Fuzz (Boss FZ-2/Univox Superfuzz clone, octave fuzz, always mixed with either clean signal, or {Orange Juice -> Metal Zone}, from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (Orange amp like overdrive, dialed in to deliver a low gain overdrive, always used stacked into the Boss Metal Zone in front of it, and mixed with the Mosky Black RAT from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> Boss MT-2 Metal Zone (distortion, dialed in at a rather moderate gain setting, always used with the Orange Juice behind it stacked into it, and always mixed with either the Mosky Black Rat, or sometimes the Behringer Super Fuzz, from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an approximate 50/50 ratio) => [LS-2 Output] }=>->> Zoom B1Xon (used predominantly as reverb unit, with various different reverb patches, including the always on {very subtle Plate Reverb -> subtle Spring Reverb} reverb patch that is part of my basic "clean" tone, and an extremely thick, lush reverb patch, used as a pad effect with volume swells from the build in expression pedal, though also used for a couple of additional effects, including a prominent "wah" pedal patch and a trippy reverse delay patch) ->> Danelectro Fab Metal (post reverb high gain distortion, often used stacked into the Orange Juice in front of it) ->> Joyo Orange Juice (post reverb medium gain distortion) ->> Behringer VD400 Vintage Delay (clone of the Boss DM-3 Analog Delay) ->> NUX Tape Core Deluxe (amazing digital emulation of the legendary Roland RE-201 Space Echo tape delay) ->> NUX (NBP-5) Melvin Lee Davis Bass Preamp + DI  (loaded with a digitally emulated Aguilar Tone Hammer amp, and an Ampeg SVT-212AV IR cab simulation, with a subtle low gain overdrive blended in at a 50/50 clean/drive ratio) ->

 

->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with build in HPF, fixed @40Hz -12dB/Oct, engaged, tube driven to just on the verge of breakup point) ->

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging  // ->> Home practice // ->> Home recordings //  : 

 

// ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> Effects Return (poweramp input) of a Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W combo amp, with the build in speaker disconnect and instead hooked up to a passive PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (passive full range flat frequency response PA speaker with 1x 15"  woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice  ->> The T.Mix Mix 502 (mixer) ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (studio grade, that is FRFR, headphones) // ->> Home recordings ->> M-Audio Fast Track (audio interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) //

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[uk_lefty]

Used the EBS Microbass ii for the first time last night... Some valuable lessons learned! I had my amp in the car as a backup but we didn't have much space so I used the sub from the PA placed behind me. The drum kit is electronic so the sub really helps. During soundcheck I found that one side of the room got no bass, the other got tons. The bass was far too quiet too, a punter who I know plays guitar in a band also told me this after the first song. 

 

The EBS has an effects loop with all my other pedals in. I couldn't remember putting my tuner onto bypass mode rather than mute... because I hadn't! The EBS was mixed with loads of FX loop in so it was quiet because I was muting about 75% of the total output! I switched off the tuner and I nearly blew the windows out. Lesson learned for next time. 

 

Tone wise it just wasn't the same as using my Ashdown ABM rig. I need to get to know the EBS better and I was happy enough with the tone but wouldn't have just settled for that if I had my ABM there. Load in and out was far easier and stage space far better. Even if I had my amp I'd have been stood so close I wouldn't have heard it anyways. Next three gigs all have in house PA and soundman so the EBS experiments will continue!

[warwickhunt]

I likewise experimented yesterday.  No amp or cab.  Bass > Sansamp > PA Mixer /  PA Aux > to my RCF310 mounted on a pole stand to the side of the stage at approx ear height.  

 

Perfectly tolerable mix of my bass, 2 vocals and the guitar, controlled by the app on my phone.  I had a slight issue with 'bloom' on the 'A' which I had to correct on main PA interface at 1/2 time but that was easily fixed.  I do feel that I may need to use my Fishman Plat Pro with the Sansamp to give me greater tonal flexibility; need to keep the Sansamp in as it gives me just the right kind of driven sound I like when just past 12:00.  Oddly other Tech 21 products sound too bloated unless I do radical adjustments.  Added to which I'm not keen on the SIMs and IRs inherent in some of the other pedal options I've tried. 

 

I now have the dilemma of which better quality cab/monitor do I get which isn't a random/rash decision based on this experiment as I want/need one purely as a FOH single cab for a duo I play acoustic guitar in.  I have four RCF 310s but generally take 1 for small gigs and scale up when needed; a single 'better' monitor would bridge the 1 or 2 310 situation and I could still keep a pair of 310s as add ons.  

 

So RCF 932 or QSC 12.2!  Unless I disappear down the rabbit hole of alternatives inc 10" options.  I'll never need to go as large as a 15" for any of my situations.  

 

 

[Greg Edwards69]

On 28/01/2023 at 20:44, gafbass02 said:

I’ve had a change around! Super flexible set up with four possible DI out locations, options for running out to my frfr cabs in mono or stereo, or to an amp, or as I use it, to my IEMs through a separate route to my FOH signal. All mounted on a Pedaltrain novo 32 with a choice of soft or hard cases. 

Apologies for the zombie ressurection!

 

I have a couple of questions regarding the Sonicake Boom Ave - I'm thinking about getting one as an inexpensive backup to my Helix.

 

Does the compressor add a significant volume boost the more you turn it up? I had a Valeton Dapper that did this and I wasn't keen on the amount of make-up gain it applied.

Does the Octaver track well enough down to open E?

Is the pre-amp of the Ampeg variety and does the top end sound good direct from the XLR to a mixing desk? Again the Valeton sounded a little harsh.

Thanks in advance.