Learning new tunes...or not!

[neepheid]

3 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

 

Middle aged people become old age and the young become the middle age. Have to update it at some point.

 

Some songs are truly timeless, and surprisingly so.  I still can't get over how many young 'uns dance enthusiastically to "Bad Moon Rising".  Was it featured in an episode of Stranger Things or something?

[asingardenof]

13 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

For example, my old band had a drummer who wouldn`t play Oasis, just refused point blank. And quite right I hear lots of you say but people love to hear the songs, especially when there is drink involved. 

Yep, our band won't do any Oasis because the singer "hate[s] them Manc tw@ts" (most of the band is from Yorkshire, I'm the only one from the "wrong" side of the Pennines). We've got two Blur tunes in our repertoire though. Having Blur tunes, no matter how fun the bass lines are to play, and no Oasis offends me because a) I'm northern and b) I have an irrational dislike of Alex "playing bass is easy" James (although he does make some bloody nice cheese).

[asingardenof]

15 hours ago, theplumber said:

Joined a covers band about 6 months ago and the usual run of learning the set,breaking and so on. Come the New Year we have spoken about bringing some new songs in to the set. The band have settled in to a set of songs going back about 5 years so it will be nice to have some new blood! Putting forward some  songs and one by one getting them knocked back we have got it down to two. Fair enough not everyone has the same musical taste!  After a few conversations on whatsapp and in person at last nights gig I put it that to make it fair we all get one song to try out at a practise to see what makes it to the set list. After knocking back most of the suggestions and failing to come up with any of his own,the keyboard player now thinks that we have a great set already and new songs have to be better than the ones we are taking out! Plus he is put off by listening to our suggestions as he feels he can't play all the parts thats on the recordings! I did try to say check out some live versions on you tube lol....Anyway I think we are making progress and I know that time,family work and all sorts get in the way of learning new tunes but can't help feeling he just can't be arsed learning anything new! Anyone had similar issues with band members just wanting to coast...

This sounds familiar. I joined a cover band about 8 months ago and the band are desperate for new material (it's a running joke amongst the regular crowd that our set list hasn't changed for quite some time). In that time I've probably suggested 100+ new songs we could do, and so far only three are being considered.

[theplumber]

13 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

This sounds familiar. I joined a cover band about 8 months ago and the band are desperate for new material (it's a running joke amongst the regular crowd that our set list hasn't changed for quite some time). In that time I've probably suggested 100+ new songs we could do, and so far only three are being considered.

In the past I would have been a bit miffed...well to be honest I am a bit. But trying to learn from past mistakes. I did play in a punk covers band for a couple of years and we all agreed the set was great as it was. No need to change and the songs great to play.Some bands feel that the punters notice if you play the same songs all the time but maybe that's why they like the band. I'm sure if they see other bands though they won't really notice new songs being added to our set list! It's really the band that sometimes get bored playing the same old stuff but as i said sometimes that's the way it is!

[Bassfinger]

27 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Some songs are truly timeless, and surprisingly so.  I still can't get over how many young 'uns dance enthusiastically to "Bad Moon Rising".  Was it featured in an episode of Stranger Things or something?

Strangely enough we start almost every gig with that one. Its short, snappy, everyone knows it, and it warms both us and the audience up before we start delving in to the set list.

[theplumber]

5 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Strangely enough we start almost every gig with that one. Its short, snappy, everyone knows it, and it warms both us and the audience up before we start delving in to the set list.

Played Fortunate Son in two bands. It went down a storm.Years back in the 90's I used to DJ. Playing in a pub one night I was playing some chart type rave/techno and a bit of Blur,Oasis,Ocean Colour Scene....Lad comes over and say's ''Mate have you got any decent tunes? Play something by the Monkees!''

[asingardenof]

1 hour ago, theplumber said:

In the past I would have been a bit miffed...well to be honest I am a bit. But trying to learn from past mistakes. I did play in a punk covers band for a couple of years and we all agreed the set was great as it was. No need to change and the songs great to play.Some bands feel that the punters notice if you play the same songs all the time but maybe that's why they like the band. I'm sure if they see other bands though they won't really notice new songs being added to our set list! It's really the band that sometimes get bored playing the same old stuff but as i said sometimes that's the way it is!

Yeah, I think we're narrowing our stuff down to a core set of tunes and then others we can mix and match depending on the gig, how the singer's voice is doing, etc. It's trying to mix things up which is the challenge. We play two Blur songs and play both as part of our set. I suggested we might do one or the other, as my feeling is that if a cover band plays two tunes from the same artist it smacks of a lack of imagination, but that suggestion was swiftly shot down. 

[theplumber]

10 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

Yeah, I think we're narrowing our stuff down to a core set of tunes and then others we can mix and match depending on the gig, how the singer's voice is doing, etc. It's trying to mix things up which is the challenge. We play two Blur songs and play both as part of our set. I suggested we might do one or the other, as my feeling is that if a cover band plays two tunes from the same artist it smacks of a lack of imagination, but that suggestion was swiftly shot down. 

It's nice to know your input is valued in the band lol. I am well aware of my input as it got me fired from the last band. Who needs hearing anyway lol....

[Jakester]

Ah well, it could be worse. Just had messages from the singer saying 'we need to talk'.

 

No doubt to be followed by "it's not you, it's me" and "we need to see other bands". 

 

Rehearsal on Weds is going to be fun. 

[PaulWarning]

our problem is not what new songs to put in the set, but which ones to take out

[theplumber]

37 minutes ago, Jakester said:

Ah well, it could be worse. Just had messages from the singer saying 'we need to talk'.

 

No doubt to be followed by "it's not you, it's me" and "we need to see other bands". 

 

Rehearsal on Weds is going to be fun. 

A dear Jake letter....best thing is to wait outside his house and ambush him! He might feel differently then! Then again.......

[tubbybloke68]

I was in a certain band for about 15 yrs, great players and people (well most of the time 🤣) We’d all say’must update the set’ but nothing would get done! Guess I was the one that used to suggest it the most.

so after 14 years or so we finally started to learn more/new stuff and it was a revelation! Everyone agreed the newbies sounded great and  it seemed to give everyone a boost, audience feedback was not suprisingly very positive.

Then out of the blue the singer turned round and said he ‘wasn’t feeling it anymore’ and jacked it in! People are strange ……🥴.Really whizzed me off at the time 🤣

[Muzz]

If you want to work, play what people like; if you're not bothered, and would rather rehearse than gig, play what you like (although getting four or five people to agree on even that one seems tricky)...

 

I've rarely met anyone who's keen to be in a working covers band who's actually refused to play any song for the simple reason they don't like the band (or even the song), and every time I did, I thought they were a precious darling who was going to be trouble in other ways...and I was usually right.

 

I'm Last Man In to a busy pop covers band at the moment, and there's been a call for new songs to freshen the set up (always a good sign with a band, I think); all the suggestions I've made so far I've given thought to a few things, in roughly this order:

 

Potential popularity of the song (whether something obvious, or something slightly less so that people will recognise)

Suitability for the band (singer's range, band lineup - i.e no keys in band, so nothing keys-defined)

Potential for the band to either make it their own, or deliver it well

 

And possibly a couple more I'm doing subconsciously, then, at the bottom of that list:

 

The song/band's a favourite of mine.

 

[TimR]

19 hours ago, theplumber said:

Joined a covers band about 6 months ago and the usual run of learning the set,breaking and so on. Come the New Year we have spoken about bringing some new songs in to the set. The band have settled in to a set of songs going back about 5 years so it will be nice to have some new blood! Putting forward some  songs and one by one getting them knocked back we have got it down to two. Fair enough not everyone has the same musical taste!  After a few conversations on whatsapp and in person at last nights gig I put it that to make it fair we all get one song to try out at a practise to see what makes it to the set list. After knocking back most of the suggestions and failing to come up with any of his own,the keyboard player now thinks that we have a great set already and new songs have to be better than the ones we are taking out! Plus he is put off by listening to our suggestions as he feels he can't play all the parts thats on the recordings! I did try to say check out some live versions on you tube lol....Anyway I think we are making progress and I know that time,family work and all sorts get in the way of learning new tunes but can't help feeling he just can't be arsed learning anything new! Anyone had similar issues with band members just wanting to coast...

 

'Learning' is an interesting term. 

 

The first priority is can the singer sing, do they already know the tune, or is it easy for them to learn, and do they like it.

 

If the singer doesn't meet any of those criteria you're in trouble.

 

Next, no one needs to spend hours 'learning' the tunes, take away the 10 songs and everyone 'bare-bones' them. Works out verse, chorus, mid sections and form. Don't worry about intros, endings, how many times the verse is repeated, solos etc. Just get a very loose version of the song together.  Then you all come together and jam the tune and maybe decide a key. Only then do you decide whether it's going to work and whether you should go away and learn it more closely. After that you come back together and sort out fine arrangements. 

 

A lot of the time you can get very weary if you decide on a tune and learn it note for note only to come to the practice to find out no one else has done their homework. 

 

So it's important to have everyone with the same approach. 

 

With the above approach you invest the minimum of time on a tune and so don't have a big issue if it doesn't work out.

Edited January 9, 2023 by TimR

[mrtcat]

How you learn can vary from band to band. In ours we agree a tune, singer let's us know the key, we learn it and then either in rehearsal or sound check we make sure all the wrinkles are ironed out and we gig it. Everyone is up to speed before we enter a rehearsal studio / venue and it's very rare that it takes more than a couple of runs through to make it work. We do over 100 gigs a year and charge £100 per song for requests (usually a first dance) so regularly have to add songs quickly and don't really want to go through tha hassle of hiring rehearsal space when we don't need to.

[Dad3353]

[Len_derby]

2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

[TimR]

26 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

we agree a tune,

 

Seems to me the OP's band don't have the confidence in their abilities to get past this point.

 

I have played in bands on both levels but currently our guitarist needs a lot of persuasion to step out of his comfort zone. 

[theplumber]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

 

Seems to me the OP's band don't have the confidence in their abilities to get past this point.

 

I have played in bands on both levels but currently our guitarist needs a lot of persuasion to step out of his comfort zone. 

It's a bit of give and take.But it seems to be sticking a bit at the moment with the keys guy who is using excuses to avoid learning new stuff...

[bass_dinger]

I was in a ukulele band that spent more time discussing a song, than we spent playing it.  

 

People would suggest obscure album tracks that not even the band's mum would know, or stuff that doesn't work well for musicians that only know one strumming pattern and three chords. 

 

Looking back, I realise that I was part of the problem  - I did not have the talent to learn songs quickly (ironic, given that my other (church) band could prepare a 35 minute set in 25 minutes). 

 

I have learnt to be more "wasteful" of material, in an event band.  Learn a song, perform it live once, and throw it away, never to be used again. I enjoyed learning a new song, and gained the confidence that I can improvise.  Most recently, Dance Monkey, as a swing tune - the singer suggested it as a joke, but we went with it, primarily because it was quicker to do it than to think of other options. 

 

 

[PaulWarning]

8 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

People would suggest obscure album tracks that not even the band's mum would know,

 

 

 

 

being in a band that has their own material as well, I just say "If we want to do obscure songs we may as well do our own" that usually does the trick 😂

[Al Krow]

On 09/01/2023 at 05:43, mrtcat said:

Depends how popular you want to be. Play whatever the punters want and do it well with enthusiasm if you want a full diary. Play only the songs that the band members want to play if you're less concerned about it. By all means try new stuff, its really important to keep the set list fresh and relevant, but be objective about what is working and what isn't. Don't flog a dead horse because someone in the band loves it and don't dismiss anything that an individual hates until youve tried it. Be aware that singers may struggle with the odd song and, if changing the key doesn't help, there will definitely be some limitations there and you'll have to respect that.

 

If I'm in a covers band, which I am, I'm more concerned about what goes down well than what I love playing. I've heard loads of bands say "we want to do some slightly more obscure songs" but they rarely work that well imo. 

 

If you have band members rejecting suggestions just on personal preference then you're on a hiding to nothing. If they're rejecting songs because they're not well known bangers then they might have a point.

Great post, thanks.

 

@mrtcat - have been thinking your comments through and discussing with my band, in particular about rejecting suggestions on personal preference.

 

I guess where I'm coming from is that there's gotta be enough cheesy floor filler songs out there which audiences love, so that the band isn't forced to play particular songs week in week out if one or more of the band members can't stand them? Particularly ones which have been done to death e.g. Wonderwall, Sweet Home Alabama etc. Playing live music has gotta be fun, if it becomes a chore then that's a real shame.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Al Krow

[peteb]

15 hours ago, mrtcat said:

Depends how popular you want to be. Play whatever the punters want and do it well with enthusiasm if you want a full diary. Play only the songs that the band members want to play if you're less concerned about it. By all means try new stuff, its really important to keep the set list fresh and relevant, but be objective about what is working and what isn't. Don't flog a dead horse because someone in the band loves it and don't dismiss anything that an individual hates until youve tried it. Be aware that singers may struggle with the odd song and, if changing the key doesn't help, there will definitely be some limitations there and you'll have to respect that.

 

If I'm in a covers band, which I am, I'm more concerned about what goes down well than what I love playing. I've heard loads of bands say "we want to do some slightly more obscure songs" but they rarely work that well imo. 

 

If you have band members rejecting suggestions just on personal preference then you're on a hiding to nothing. If they're rejecting songs because they're not well known bangers then they might have a point.

 

The other side of that is I’ve played in a couple of popular covers band that very intentionally didn’t do the songs that the punters really wanted, but ones we knew they would like but didn’t hear whenever they went out to see a band. For example, we didn’t play Sweet Child O’Mine or Welcome to the Jungle but did Nightrain and You Could Be Mine instead (rock covers band obviously, but the same will apply to other genres).

 

You can always get a good response playing the most obvious setlist, but as much as punters will enjoy it at the time when they think back to the gig you could have been any random band. They will remember the band that did something slightly different, rather than the old same old. Another thing is that we would drop in a couple of songs that were a bit obscure, but not too many. If you pick carefully, you can be sure that one of these will be the favourite song of someone in the audience and you have made a fan for life.

 

You probably can’t get away with doing this if you’re playing wedding gigs, but it is one way to stand out if you are playing the music pub circuit.

 

[Gasman]

Such a common problem! I’ve been ‘last guy in‘ with all my bands since forever and have finally learned to stfu for at least six months when the call goes out for new numbers so I can see who likes what, who hates what and I don’t alienate anyone with inappropriate suggestions. Some dislikes are visceral, our lead guitarist hates ska and won’t play it because he was a hippy and got stomped on 50 years ago by some skinheads. At the other extreme, two bands ago the lead singer was fixated on Delbert McClinton (no, I’d never heard of him either) and insisted on playing most of the numbers on one of the guy’s country rock albums and vetoed any changes or new material, to the bafflement of most of our customers. In the end I now stay Schtum because I like the guys in the current band and opportunities to switch bands down here in Dorset are very few and far between; there’s also the frying pan into the fire possibility!

[Al Krow]

@mrtcat - have been thinking your comments through and discussing with my band, in particular about rejecting suggestions on personal preference.

 

I guess where I'm coming from is that there's gotta be enough cheesy floor filler songs out there which audiences love, so that the band isn't forced to play particular songs week in week out if one or more of the band members can't stand them? Particularly ones which have been done to death e.g. Wonderwall, Sweet Home Alabama etc. Playing live music has gotta be fun, if it becomes a chore then that's a real shame.

 

Had a bit of banter with a pro bass-player last night who's just helped me to put the debate over one band song we're currently not doing to bed: you don't need to play this song to be doing 60+ function gigs a year!