When the spirit is willing but the body ...

[SamIAm]

I'm not as young as ... I used to be  

I find the finger stretching and weight of "normal" basses too "demanding" and so most of the time I find myself grooving on my 5 string fretless ukulele bass (tho it does sound really nice with a thuddy/mwahy texture!) which is relatively light and has a 23 inch scale length.  I also mostly sit, due to a lower back injury I suffered last year.  I'm also in the process of trying to obtain one of the sub short scale five string basses (28.6 inch) to see how I get on with it.

 

I wonder what approaches other players have taken to groove when "the body cannot deliver what the spirit desires"?

 

S'manth x

[T Cee]

Whilst I'm not so much in the same boat as in a vaguely adjacent vessel, I can certainly identify.

 

When I wasn't able to have a bass on me, I still found a way to have a bit of a tootle on my Ergo EUB.  Being a free standing object mounted on (ostensibly) a cymbal stand, I was able to set it at an angle and height that I could work with and still get some joy from playing along to stuff.

 

[velvetkevorkian]

This is very specific to my own back issue, but switching to a classical position when sitting was a big help for me, I think it helped keep my back straighter.

[TheGreek]

Mine is arthritis - hands and elbows mostly - just have to play in moderation.

[lidl e]

Get a Hofner. It's like playing nothing at all.

 

I had to get rid of mine because it was so light and delicate i thought i'd crush it with my playing.

[Bassfinger]

Mine is an awkward arm break that left me with nerve damage and 2 fingers that I can no longer feel.

 

I was a guitarist and being unable to fingerpick any more was seriously upsetting, so on Mrs Bassfinger's insistence I switched to bass on the basis there is 33% less real estate for my remaining digits to cover. Sure enough I could play finger style much better on the bass but was prone to errors so for live playing always used to revert to a pick.

 

However,  years of bloody minded persietence and practice paid off and my brain has rewired itself sufficiently for me to be able to fingerpick normally again (I still use a pick for those songs that suit one) even with no feeling in 2 digits, and I'm back on the guitar as well. I can even pingerpick on a mandolin.  No trick, just years and years of hammering at it, 90 minutes to 3 hours a day, every si gle day. I even bought a Hofner shorty so I could pradtice when wkrking abroad.

 

The only other concession I make to the inury is that I tend to practice standing.  Sitting down quickly becomes uncomfortable on my nacked elbow and shoulder and the pressure on the nerves starts to make my right thumb numb as well, although that is transitory and quickly rights itself when I get the arm moving.

 

I've had 3 operations, and nearly died in the last one due to an unexpected reaction to the general, so unless my life depends on it I'll pass on any more surgery and put up with the symptoms.

[Franticsmurf]

A diagnosis of an inguinal hernia in April prompted a rethink of all things bass for me. I decided lighter kit would enable me to continue gigging so I ditched the Laney RB7 combo and 15" cab in favour of, initially, a TCE BAM200 and two home built 6" cabs (initial designs on here). In fact, the research for lighter kit and in particular the small class D amp heads was why I ended up on Basschat. Once I'd figured out what I could or couldn't do, I got a couple of TE 1x10" cabs. I wouldn't go back to big cabs now.

 

My main bass was a Sterling HH 34" scale - a little on the heavy side. Fortunately I have my Spirit headless bass (it's been with me for more than 15 years) so I turned to that for rehearsals and a couple of gigs, also using my Gretsch Electromatic shorty. Both a considerably lighter than the Sterling. Recently I invested (purely on medical grounds, you understand 😃) in an American P Bass which is also lighter than the Sterling. As time has gone on I've found I can do more than I initially expected although I still know about the hernia after a gig or rehearsal.

 

 

[lidl e]

7 minutes ago, Franticsmurf said:

A diagnosis of an inguinal hernia in April prompted a rethink of all things bass for me. I decided lighter kit would enable me to continue gigging so I ditched the Laney RB7 combo and 15" cab in favour of, initially, a TCE BAM200 and two home built 6" cabs (initial designs on here). In fact, the research for lighter kit and in particular the small class D amp heads was why I ended up on Basschat. Once I'd figured out what I could or couldn't do, I got a couple of TE 1x10" cabs. I wouldn't go back to big cabs now.

 

My main bass was a Sterling HH 34" scale - a little on the heavy side. Fortunately I have my Spirit headless bass (it's been with me for more than 15 years) so I turned to that for rehearsals and a couple of gigs, also using my Gretsch Electromatic shorty. Both a considerably lighter than the Sterling. Recently I invested (purely on medical grounds, you understand 😃) in an American P Bass which is also lighter than the Sterling. As time has gone on I've found I can do more than I initially expected although I still know about the hernia after a gig or rehearsal.

 

 

I'm keeping my steinberger XP for when I'm too old to carry a j bass. Im so tempted too sell it but it's so light.

[Franticsmurf]

I've always said my Spirit headless will be the last bass to go.

[fretmeister]

I've had 5 inguinal hernias so I swapped to Sandberg superlight basses and really lightweight amps and cabs.

Then I ruptured a tendon in my right hand - Mallet Finger - that just didn't want to heal. Spent most of a year in a cast. The tendon did eventually heal but because the finger was stationary for so long I have arthritis in it and that finger sometimes does not obey my commands. 

 

I'm using a plectrum more often but I don't really like it. It's just not the sound in my head.

 

I've got another superlight on order - this time a shortscale Lionel. For some reason I find plectrum playing much easier with a shortie. I think it's the instrument position combined with the shorter neck. I've got a really cheap shortie at the moment but the 'Berg will be much lighter in weight.

 

It's very annoying though.

 

 

[SamIAm]

Nods … I really love the lightness of my Hohner B2V headless, but sadly my fingers struggle with its 34 inch scale so I’ve got it up for sale to help fund a a shorty.

S’manth x

[3below]

My short scale basses are increasingly the weapon of first choice with the lightest being most preferable.  Having recently entered the bass Uke world with a 23" solid version I would really like to try a 25" one.  The Ibanez Mikro basses also look increasingly tempting, just need a fretless (or a cheap s/h one to defret).

[lidl e]

1 hour ago, Smanth said:

Nods … I really love the lightness of my Hohner B2V headless, but sadly my fingers struggle with its 34 inch scale so I’ve got it up for sale to help fund a a shorty.

S’manth x

Allen Woody rumblekat!!

[Baloney Balderdash]

I can warmly recommend the 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 or GSRM20B Mikro Bass.

 

Truly amazing instrument for the price, though you might want to swap out the pickups for some better higher quality ones to your preferences.

 

And the GSRM20B Mirko Bass in Weathered Black finish looks pretty astonishing too:

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Paul S]

I have a new and interesting thing to add to my medical portfolio.  After the last couple of rehearsals, both quite long - on the way home my left (fretting hand) thumb seems to slide over and nestle into the palm.  It doesn't bend or hook , just shifts over.  I have to carefully push it back again, after which it is rather sore for a while.  No idea what that is, some variant of trigger finger, I guess.  

[SamIAm]

1 minute ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

I can warmly recommend the 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 or GSRM20B Mikro Bass.

Good to hear.  I'm a fiver lover and have been trying to get hold of the GSRM25 as they appear to align with my limits, but ... they are like hens' teeth!  I've placed an order with Thomann but they are quoting 8-12 wks before stock is back in and I've put out the call here on BC in the wanted section.  

 

S'manth x

[DGBass]

I use a P-Bass and a Jazz bass, both USA models which weigh around just under 4kg each and been playing the p-bass for twenty five years and the Jazz for ten years. It would be fair to say they've both worn me down/ moulded me into the shape I am now. After a three hour show its not uncomfortable around the neck so much anymore as in my fingers and elbow joints. Playing gigs in moderation was a good idea initially but I found not playing as much was just as bad as I got out of condition. I use those squeezy foam balls as often as possible to keep my hands and fingers moving. There are days where i'll quite happily lug a Trace Elliot AH250 and a big cab to a gig only to wish I'd brought the Markbass when my joints start to complain.

As for home practising, I spend time everyday without fail playing to keep my joints moving and i've also recently picked up a used MIM p-bass that weighs just 2.9kg to experiment with. A kg may not sound much of a difference but i have noticed the benfit of a lighter bass. I'll give it a try next gig to see if my American Standard stoop improves🙂 

[luckman67]

Been having a few sharp pains in my left hand recently and while not really sure, what is causing it but playing a short scale bass does help ease that pain a little. I recently got my '64 Hofner 500/1 back out of it's case when I need, that break from my Precision bass plus the light weight helps as well. 

 

[SubsonicSimpleton]

On 08/01/2023 at 23:26, Smanth said:

I'm not as young as ... I used to be  

I find the finger stretching and weight of "normal" basses too "demanding" and so most of the time I find myself grooving on my 5 string fretless ukulele bass (tho it does sound really nice with a thuddy/mwahy texture!) which is relatively light and has a 23 inch scale length.  I also mostly sit, due to a lower back injury I suffered last year.  I'm also in the process of trying to obtain one of the sub short scale five string basses (28.6 inch) to see how I get on with it.

 

I wonder what approaches other players have taken to groove when "the body cannot deliver what the spirit desires"?

 

S'manth x

Are you using Simandl fingering to play nearer the nut, or using one finger per fret?

 

I would advocate that to reduce stress, wear and tear and likelyhood of injury it is only worth using one finger per fret where you can do so with your fretting hand relaxed, and use Simandl fingering for the rest of the neck. If you use this approach to the instrument, the limiting factor in terms of playing comfort doesn't so much apply to scale length, but more to how far to the left(for a right hander) you need to move your arm to reach the first fret and whether that is cause for discomfort or posture issues that might develope into injuries over the long term.

[asingardenof]

I've taken to using Simandl fingering for the lower frets to save stretching my tiny fingers. This means a lot more shifting, but so far I seem to be dealing with it.

Edited January 12, 2023 by asingardenof

[SamIAm]

16 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Are you using Simandl fingering to play nearer the nut, or using one finger per fret?

Oooooo … I currently use OFPF at all positions.  With my ukulele bass background (where this is easy) I never considered anything different when I started playing longer scales.

I shall have to investigate, does it basically mean that you only span three frets in any one position and use index finger on the first fret in the position, middle on second and pinkie (with ring finger supporting) on third?

S’manth x

[SubsonicSimpleton]

9 minutes ago, Smanth said:

Oooooo … I currently use OFPF at all positions.  With my ukulele bass background (where this is easy) I never considered anything different when I started playing longer scales.

I shall have to investigate, does it basically mean that you only span three frets in any one position and use index finger on the first fret in the position, middle on second and pinkie (with ring finger supporting) on third?

S’manth x

Yep that's it. It requires some rethinking your approach to certain situations, or at least the willingness to try different things and see what works best.

[SamIAm]

Just now, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Yep that's it. It requires some rethinking your approach to certain situations, or at least the willingness to try different things and see what works best.

I’ve just had a wee go … it is more comfortable (reducing the strain on the back of my hand which is the affected area for me), but OMG … my fretting went haywire!  I shall give it a try over the next few days … but if it means I can play longer scales comfortably it’s would be a huge win!

S’manth x

[Paolo85]

On 12/01/2023 at 14:52, Smanth said:

Oooooo … I currently use OFPF at all positions.  With my ukulele bass background (where this is easy) I never considered anything different when I started playing longer scales.

I shall have to investigate, does it basically mean that you only span three frets in any one position and use index finger on the first fret in the position, middle on second and pinkie (with ring finger supporting) on third?

S’manth x

The Simandl techniquebis absolutely amazing. It makes a massive difference in terms of resistance and ability to cope with longer scales and large fretboards. It is used by doublebass players as OFPF would just kill their hands. In general, making quick shifts left and right with the left hand instead of trying to extend the fingers is less straining. Even if you use OFPF. With Simandl you do a lot of shifting. You can still use OFPF on that one fast passage where it is needed.

Another thing that doublebass players do is to use the weigh of the shoulder to fret instead of the fingers. The idea is that instead of squeezing the string between your thumb and the other finger you are using,  you just hold your fretting hanf in position and then pull with the strenght of your arm. I recommend this video on the subject

 

Does that apply to electric bass? Well, that may be controversial but when I practice sitting down I do use this approach a bit. My plucking harm keeps the bass still, the shoulder keeps the fretting fingers on the fretboard. And the thumb does not do much. Just when using the shoulders I need not to be careful not to overdoit. Above all, the body needs to be relaxed. The problem with that is that it is not good posture for the plucking hand and that when you stand up you necessarily use different muscles. But I find that alternating this and standing is the best way for me to practice for a good amount of time without straining any specific muscle too much. Maybe think of using the shoulder as time to learn new songs or something like that.

Another interesting tip I heard it recently in an interview to Kiko Lureiro (a guitar player). When I fret, I tend to use more energy than necessary, which wears my muscles unnecessarily. Apparently he used to practice scales just touching the string, not fretting them, as if to make a ghost note but with just the tip of one finger. Then he would progressively increase the pressure, until he would get to the point where pressure would be just sufficient for the note to ring, nothing more.

I try to be very careful about all this stuff. I effectively stopped playing the bass at 18-19 because of tlrecurring tendinitis. And that was not long after I had decided I would try to make a living out of it. Later on I tried again a few times but tendinitis would come back. 

This time it is going better. Part because of better research into how not to strain my muscles (eg the discovery of Simandl), part because I take it very easy. If I get pain i rest a few days, no stress, no anxiety. If and when I hands get in good shape, I'll join a band, time permitting. Else I'll just enjoy it as it is.

 

 

 

 

[JPJ]

On 11/01/2023 at 18:09, Paul S said:

I have a new and interesting thing to add to my medical portfolio.  After the last couple of rehearsals, both quite long - on the way home my left (fretting hand) thumb seems to slide over and nestle into the palm.  It doesn't bend or hook , just shifts over.  I have to carefully push it back again, after which it is rather sore for a while.  No idea what that is, some variant of trigger finger, I guess.  

This used to happen to me (once mid-gig) and it was diagnosed as a form of cramp. Secret is to drink plenty of water whilst playing/rehearsing and it seems to do the trick for me.