When the spirit is willing but the body ...

[tauzero]

On 12/01/2023 at 15:20, Smanth said:

I’ve just had a wee go … it is more comfortable (reducing the strain on the back of my hand which is the affected area for me), but OMG … my fretting went haywire!  I shall give it a try over the next few days … but if it means I can play longer scales comfortably it’s would be a huge win!

S’manth x

 

Something else to try is to shift everything up five frets and down one string, so you only go below fret 5 if you have to play a note below bottom E.

[Boodang]

On 09/01/2023 at 04:26, Smanth said:

I'm not as young as ... I used to be  

I find the finger stretching and weight of "normal" basses too "demanding" and so most of the time I find myself grooving on my 5 string fretless ukulele bass (tho it does sound really nice with a thuddy/mwahy texture!) which is relatively light and has a 23 inch scale length.  I also mostly sit, due to a lower back injury I suffered last year.  I'm also in the process of trying to obtain one of the sub short scale five string basses (28.6 inch) to see how I get on with it.

 

I wonder what approaches other players have taken to groove when "the body cannot deliver what the spirit desires"?

 

S'manth x

I bought a NS Design EUB. I play it on its stand so it is self supporting and when I really can't be arsed to stand and play it, I use a bar stool style seat. Effortless. Also has a big sound, more like a giant fretless then an upright. I use it for all sorts of gigs, did a Hendrix tribute band with it once which was a bit of a laugh, and because it's an 'upright' it doesn't look out of place when you're playing seated at a gig as you can hardly leap around with it.

[Boodang]

On 18/01/2023 at 21:23, tauzero said:

 

Something else to try is to shift everything up five frets and down one string, so you only go below fret 5 if you have to play a note below bottom E.

A few years ago I did something similar. I was working with a lot of keyboard players, so I started orientating myself around the C (8th fret) on the E string, rather than default to the first five frets. Two things happened, fingering is easier at this point on the neck but also my playing became more fluid and melodic as I had the freedom, or so it seems, to easily move up and down the neck (this might be psychological but I don't care as it works for me). More or less, I now find myself playing an octave higher than I used to but I'm liking the results and no complaints so far from the bands I play in.

[Paul S]

On 18/01/2023 at 14:38, JPJ said:

This used to happen to me (once mid-gig) and it was diagnosed as a form of cramp. Secret is to drink plenty of water whilst playing/rehearsing and it seems to do the trick for me.

 

Well, a 4 hr rehearsal today with plenty of water - no cramps!  Hopefully it is going to be that simple.  Many thanks.  

Mind you, I was busting for a pee by the time I got home 😵

[Franticsmurf]

35 minutes ago, Paul S said:

 

Well, a 4 hr rehearsal today with plenty of water - no cramps!  Hopefully it is going to be that simple.  Many thanks.  

Mind you, I was busting for a pee by the time I got home 😵

If I get cramp while I'm out on the hills, I usually try and add a tiny bit of salt to a mug of water. It usually fixes things quite quickly. But prevention is better than cure and keeping hydrated is good practice. 

[SamIAm]

On 12/01/2023 at 15:20, Smanth said:

I’ve just had a wee go … it is more comfortable (reducing the strain on the back of my hand which is the affected area for me), but OMG … my fretting went haywire!  I shall give it a try over the next few days … but if it means I can play longer scales comfortably it’s would be a huge win!

S’manth x

I’ve been using 1-2-4 fingering on a 34 inch scale for about a week, just simple exercises a few minutes each day to try and get my muscle memory sorted.
So far:

• I’m finding my pinkie gets tired quite quickly, but the pain/cramping in the back of my fretting hand has not revisited.
• For simple ascending, descending semitone runs and simple riffs, I’m starting to find the new fingering is bedding in, for scales I’m nowhere near as fast or fluid (which was not very fast or fluid to start with!) as with OFPF … partly as my ring finger keeps wanting to get involved and partly the increased position shifts required.

Overall I feel it is an approach that will work for me and that in the not too distant future, these issues will reduce and allow me to comfortably play the two long scale basses I have.  I’ve not yet tried switching to OFPF when I play higher frets as it is likely to confuse my wee brain just now!

 

In other news I’ve managed to locate one of the GSRM25 sub short scale 5 stringers I’ve been looking for, hopefully it will arrive Thursday … it will be interesting to see how I get on with it being ultra light and with a 28.6 inch scale length.

 

S’manth x

[Mottlefeeder]

A couple of things that might help -

a) Practice for a few days with a rubber band around your ring finger and pinkie to help you get used to them working together.

b) start working on songs, one key at a time, relearning the finger patterns when using the 5th string.

David

[Paolo85]

3 hours ago, Smanth said:

Ipartly the increased position shifts required.

 

On that, you may interested in buying Simandl's book, volume 1. As you use three fingers, different finger patterns for your scales may be easier, and they are thought through the book.

I started going through the book but then I realised that 90% of what I play is based on pentatonics for which the change is less of an issue so I just got lazy and dropped it

[crazycloud]

On 09/01/2023 at 10:26, Smanth said:

I find the finger stretching and weight of "normal" basses too "demanding"

Do you play your bass with it almost horizontal as in your avatar pic?

[SamIAm]

On 23/01/2023 at 05:50, crazycloud said:

Do you play your bass with it almost horizontal as in your avatar pic?

Good observation! I actually play with the neck more like this (even when seated), I try to ensure my forearm and back of hand are parallel, reducing to a minimum any bending of my wrist.

S’manth x

[miles'tone]

On 18/01/2023 at 11:06, Paolo85 said:

The Simandl techniquebis absolutely amazing. It makes a massive difference in terms of resistance and ability to cope with longer scales and large fretboards. It is used by doublebass players as OFPF would just kill their hands. In general, making quick shifts left and right with the left hand instead of trying to extend the fingers is less straining. Even if you use OFPF. With Simandl you do a lot of shifting. You can still use OFPF on that one fast passage where it is needed.

Another thing that doublebass players do is to use the weigh of the shoulder to fret instead of the fingers. The idea is that instead of squeezing the string between your thumb and the other finger you are using,  you just hold your fretting hanf in position and then pull with the strenght of your arm. I recommend this video on the subject

 

Does that apply to electric bass? Well, that may be controversial but when I practice sitting down I do use this approach a bit. My plucking harm keeps the bass still, the shoulder keeps the fretting fingers on the fretboard. And the thumb does not do much. Just when using the shoulders I need not to be careful not to overdoit. Above all, the body needs to be relaxed. The problem with that is that it is not good posture for the plucking hand and that when you stand up you necessarily use different muscles. But I find that alternating this and standing is the best way for me to practice for a good amount of time without straining any specific muscle too much. Maybe think of using the shoulder as time to learn new songs or something like that.

Another interesting tip I heard it recently in an interview to Kiko Lureiro (a guitar player). When I fret, I tend to use more energy than necessary, which wears my muscles unnecessarily. Apparently he used to practice scales just touching the string, not fretting them, as if to make a ghost note but with just the tip of one finger. Then he would progressively increase the pressure, until he would get to the point where pressure would be just sufficient for the note to ring, nothing more.

 

 

 

 

 

This excellent advice! In fact it should be pinned somewhere useful on here. Really well explained Paolo 👏 

I try to do the same kind of thing. When I started learning upright, I gleaned what you just explained from DB tutorial videos. These nuggets of wisdom have also transformed my BG playing completely, especially the using of the arms weight to apply the (not really that much) pressure to fret. That's a whole massive levers-worth of free energy to utilise. Now my thumb is just a gliding guide rather than the one half of cramp inducing G clamp that it used to be.

Regarding using OFPF... I was taught this way and stuck at it for years, eventually getting horrible clicking in my wrist when fretting down the low end. Simandl saved the day for me.

Hey, it also worked for James Jamerson, who was originally an upright player! 😉