Classical music pieces - recommendations needed please.

[miles'tone]

After replying to the What Are You Listening To Right Now thread I thought it would be a good idea to start this one.

 

I love the bass playing of Scott Thunes who played with Frank Zappa, always interesting with his gnarly, tight and punky P bass with a pick sound. He was the first (and maybe only) musician that Frank hired to be given "carte blanche", free reign to improvise however he felt when they played live, usually providing out of the box lines, colourfully harmonising with counterpoint melodies and instant responses to Franks improvised solos. Zappa trusted him that much.

Scott, although playing hard like a punk, always cites many classical composers as his main inspirations.

Add to that seeing Sting gush about Bach during the excellent and fairly recent Rick Beato interview and I just have to take a peek down the classical rabbit hole!

 

I don't know much about this kind of music at all, other than being familiar with the names of the biggies. 

 

What pieces should a noob like me be seeking out?

Initially I would like to check out some music that I could try and play along to myself while I develop my classical ears, see what I can glean from it and hopefully get my basslines sounding more harmonically interesting. 

I can read bass clef but not sight read in real time if that matters at all.

 

Any pointers or suggestions will be most appreciated!

 

Thanks gang.

Edited January 9, 2023 by miles'tone

[dclaassen]

Bach cello suites….

[itu]

@dclaassen had a good one.

 

What kind of old music are interested in? Rameau, Händel are older ones, Wolfgang Amadeus Beethoven et al. somewhere in the middle and guys like Debussy (Prélude á l'Après-midi d'un faune!) and Schönberg represent the later parts in old. I would suggest you to listen to those and find your favourite.

 

Then there are double bass players like Domenico Dragonetti, Giovanni Bottesini, and the much younger Edgar Meyer.

 

I suggest a movie, Tous les matins du monde, which is a story of two gamba players. Remember, gamba is the predecessor of double bass.

 

What was Pino listening to?

[Munurmunuh]

How do the first 2 minutes and 11 seconds of this make you feel?

 

 

Serious question.

[knirirr]

If Carnival of the Animals is of any interest then "The Elephant" is fun to play with the aid of a pianist or backing track.

[Earbrass]

If you want to play along, and like harmony and counterpoint, then I'd start with baroque music, as it tends to have strong rhythm, making it easier to keep time with, and the harmonies are generally not too obscure. Can't do better than JS Bach.

[Dad3353]

20 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said:

How do the first 2 minutes and 11 seconds of this make you feel?

...

Serious question.

 

Apprehensive, checking under the bed. 

 

Serious answer. 

[Munurmunuh]

4 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Apprehensive, checking under the bed. 

 

Serious answer. 

 

Some people with no knowledge of classical music find this stuff from the fringes easier to enjoy than people with a solid knowledge of the repertoire — not being very aware of what's different, they just find it exciting. Hence my asking the OP, who after all likes Zappa.

[Waddo Soqable]

As stated earlier, baroque stuff, the basso continuo at the heart of this style is a usually simple ish bass line with chords that the keyboard player (harpsichord usually) extemporises, mostly with shorthand figures to suggest the chords along within the conventions of the period. 

The bass instrument or instruments could be whatever they had available, bass viol, string bass, bassoon, whatever, if you fancy a go at playing along get the basic score with the "figured" bass, and play the bass part 😊

[bass_dinger]

1 hour ago, dclaassen said:

Bach cello suites….

Good choice! 

 

And, for fun, listen to and watch this bass line. 

 

 

At 2'37", listen to the ascending chromatic scale - so clever, so musical.

 

Slow it down to half speed and you may be able to play it on a five string, once you realise that most every note has a second note an octave away from it.

[bass_dinger]

 on mandolin, the Bach Cello suites.

 

They work on stringed instruments tuned it 5ths, but are less easy on instruments tuned in 4ths I have found. 

 

Listen to the chords change - and then realise that the instrument is not playing chords, but arpeggios. 

 

1 hour ago, dclaassen said:

Bach cello suites….

 

 

[SamIAm]

I’m working my way through this one at present.

S’manth x

 

[miles'tone]

1 hour ago, Ricky Rioli said:

How do the first 2 minutes and 11 seconds of this make you feel?

 

 

Serious question.

Thanks a lot. Yes Scott Thunes is a big fan of Bartók so I've dipped my toe in a bit. The little I've heard sounds like horror movie music...I've read that they used one of his pieces in The Shining. 

Later I learned that Bartók is from Transylvania.

Makes sense...

I like it. Nice change from 12 bar down the pub!

[BassTractor]

With Zappa as your reference frame, I'd say: keep to the biggies first, and take it from there.
Bach has been mentioned already, and forgetting the play-along bit, some names I'd add could be, starting with older music so as to hear music developing:

Palestrina and Monteverdi for yer renaissance and early baroque.
Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli
Monteverdi: Orfeo,  Scherzi musicali  (with that glorious song "Non cosi tosto" a.o.)

 

Bach: what has been mentioned already plus say the Mass in B minor, the St Matthew Passion, Christmas Oratorio and the Brandenburg Concertos.
Also give "Bist du bei mir" a listen. It was traditionally, wrongly, attributed to Bach (but he simply couldn't have written it) and is absolutely gorgeous despite its awkwardness.

 

If you play Haydn (say Die Schöpfung (The Creation), piano sonatas and a symphony like no 104) and

 

Händel (operas like 'Julius Caesar' and 'Oreste' and oratoria like The Messiah for example), then do absolutely not forget

 

Henry Purcell - a great composer. My brain refuses to remember pieces right now, but he's up there with the very best.

Mozart: late works like his Requiem (which turns away from the perceived lightness of many an early work, and reflects Mozart's understanding of and love for Bach).
I'd do the "light" stuff later.

 

 

That's all for now. Brain is closing down, so best hit the Submit button.
Enjoy!

 

Edit: rectified a few wrong entries.

Edited January 10, 2023 by BassTractor

[miles'tone]

2 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

Good choice! 

 

And, for fun, listen to and watch this bass line. 

 

 

At 2'37", listen to the ascending chromatic scale - so clever, so musical.

 

Slow it down to half speed and you may be able to play it on a five string, once you realise that most every note has a second note an octave away from it.

Thanks for this! What a great way to make sense of the whole piece. 

I should be able to sightread those 8th notes once I get the rust off. What a great way to try! Brill 🙂

[Munurmunuh]

52 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

Bach Requiem

Haydn symphony no 106

 

My two favourite works 

[bass_dinger]

Calling the non rock n roll bassist, @zbd1960

[BassTractor]

1 hour ago, Ricky Rioli said:

 

My two favourite works 

Yeah, sorry about that.
I've corrected my post.

[bass_dinger]

23 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

Yeah, sorry about that.
I've corrected my post.

I just spent a happy but fruitless 10 minutes looking for Hadyn's 106th!

 

It seems that there are 104 numbered symphonies, and two others, A and B, bringing the total to 106. But nothing numbered 106.

 

104 it is!

[Munurmunuh]

6 hours ago, BassTractor said:

Yeah, sorry about that.
I've corrected my post.

 

I've just tried to calculate how long a Bach Requiem would be — about the same as the Opus Clavicembalisticum?

 

Definitely not long is this lovely little sonata by Scarlatti, who I've grown to prefer to Bach, as it seems I prefer cheekiness and facetiousness to godliness, at least in my baroque instrumental music:

 

 

 

[zbd1960]

7 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

Calling the non rock n roll bassist, @zbd1960

You rang? 🙂

 

OK, interesting thread... Yes, Haydn wrote 104 numbered symphonies - there are various other bits and pieces making the grand total anything up to about 110... but 104 is the standard list. 104 is known as the London symphony, as that was where it had its first performance and it's fun to play.

 

I was playing Haydn 6, 7, and 8 at the weekend in a workshop - great fun and there are two bass solos in there...

 

Okay, suggestions of 'what' to listen to.... There are good suggestions above. I always sit someone down and I do a musical history tour to cover of the various genres and try to find a style or period that someone likes. Loosely speaking, the music falls into various time boxes, bear in mind these often overlap in time by a lot...: medieval (pre 1400); renaissance c.1400 - 1600; baroque 1600 - 1750; classical 1750 - 1820; romantic 1820 - tricky... roughly 1900. You've got impressionists writing in late C19th (not romantic) and Richard Strauss writing up until 1949. Anyway, styles explode in late C19th.

 

For 'easy listening' the baroque era is good. It splits into three roughly 50 year periods: early (1600), middle (1650), late (1700). Late is where your well-known composers are: Bach, Vivaldi, Telemann, Handel. Music of this era has a strong structure with a bass line that is controlling what is going on. Suggestions: JS Bach - Brandenburg concertos, Orchestral Suites, harpsichord and oboe concertos. Organ music try the trio sonatas

 

 

And less well-known items such as the toccata and fugue in F.

 

Vivaldi ignore the usual suspects and listen to concerto sets like La Stravaganza or La Cetera, or the Concerto di Amsterdam. Telemann wrote a lot... his Tafelmusic (table music) is good. Handel try the Concerti Grossi - there's the opus 3 and opus 6 sets of those, the 'concerti a due cori' are fun (wait until the horns come in...).

 

 

English baroque composers include Avison, who was from Durham.

 

Early baroque tends to be dominated by French and Italian composers - a lot of good recommendations in earlier posts. The Monteverdi Vespers are fun to sing.

 

I will write a couple more posts covering different periods. If you want the 'heavy metal' department of classical music... then you're looking at things like Wagner (Entry to Valhalla from Das Rheingold), Siegfried's Funeral Music etc, Bruckner (symphonies 4 and 7 perhaps), Tchaikovsky symphonies 4, 5, and 6. Big music with tunes - Dvorak symphonies 7, 8 and 9. Really big orchestras - Mahler. Possibly symphonies 4 and 5.

 

I'll write more later... 

Edited January 10, 2023 by zbd1960

[Munurmunuh]

11 hours ago, miles'tone said:

The little I've heard sounds like horror movie music

 

If you dip in and out of Bartok you'll find that element of being deliberately disconcerting comes and goes — sometimes the harsh noises are just there for the fun of it, not trying to discomfort, just simply being itself.

 

Bartok claimed that every last thing in his music is taken from folk music, and in his awkward rhythms and harsh harmonies, you can always hear the happy folk player digging into his violin with a gleam in his eye.

[Leonard Smalls]

As ZBD and others have said, Bach is always a good starting point. Always great bass! Though when it comes to his many piano works, I much prefer the way Jacques Loussier does 'em to the no-pedal soul-less-ness of Andras Schiff (a source of much disagreement with my classical-only music piano teaching mother!). I bet Bach would have liked his Italian Concerto done all groovy!

 

 

 

And more Vivaldi recommendations - I get sick of the usual overplayed 4 Seasons... I much prefer the bassoon and lute concertos, and for more baroque, Scarlatti's Sinfonies. For more lovely bass lines, I'd also recommend Schubert's Impromptus.

I also like a bit of heavy, so loves a bit of Shostakovich's symphonies and can get as modern as Varese...

 

 

[BassTractor]

10 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

I just spent a happy but fruitless 10 minutes looking for Hadyn's 106th!

 

It seems that there are 104 numbered symphonies, and two others, A and B, bringing the total to 106. But nothing numbered 106.

 

104 it is!

Yeah, and I hope that that indeed is the background for my mistake. Other, less agreeable, explanations may exist.

[Dan Dare]

So many options. Where to begin? The radio is your friend. A few weeks of having Radio 3 on at home will expose you to a pretty wide variety of music. If you really are a newcomer, I'd suggest Classic FM could be helpful. Their diet is very much popular/mainstream classical music (which purists won't be happy about). They also compress their output pretty hard (presumably to make it more audible over workplace/background noise, road noise for those listening in the car, etc), which can be a mite annoying. However, it will give you a whistle stop tour of many of the popular composers and their best known works. Once you start to develop preferences, you can explore them in depth elsewhere.