Rubbersoul Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Hi folks, I hope this isn't an entirely stupid question but here goes. I currently run an Ashdown MAG 300 head through a matching 410 cab. The head is rated 300W RMS, 500W Peak with a minimum load of 4 Ohms. The Cab is rated 450W at 8 Ohms. This works well. My problem is that the cab is the weight of a small moon and, being rather disabled, it's not the easiest thing to lug around. I am therefore considering a cheap and light 210 cab. Now here is the dumb question: Can I add a cab rated for less wattage, say 150W, without too great a risk of blowing it up? Should I go for 8 Ohms or 4? Is there some sort of power reducer / attenuator that would prevent an overload? Is this just a really bad idea? Thanks for any advice received, I am useless at this sort of technical stuff. Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Cheap, light and loud? The nirvana of bass cabs...generally the rule is 'Pick two of the three'... 150w is a low rating for a bass cab if you're gigging without DI support; you could run that head into it, but you'd need to be verrry careful with the volume and listen to it closely for signs of distress, which isn't always easy in a band situation; an enthusiastic drummer could give you volume issues. I run a 100w combo onstage for monitoring, but I'm DI'd, and I dial the bottom end out of the amp. I'd say a 300w cab would be easier to find and give you more peace of mind...as for the cab rating in ohms, there's another thread running about the whole 4 vs 8 thing which is quite...complicated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 A used Barefaced Two10 would be ideal even if you have to save up a bit. Very lightweight and easy to move about. Via a convoluted route I went from Marshall VBC412 cabs (110lb each) down to a 40lb Barefaced Supertwin. The Two10 is even lighter at 31lb / 14kg. As expensive as my cab was, I have never regretted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 28 minutes ago, Muzz said: Cheap, light and loud? The nirvana of bass cabs...generally the rule is 'Pick two of the three'... This is very true. Buying used can help reduce the cost, but keep an eye out for smaller cabs that have been pushed past their limits (which often happens before people decide to bite the bullet and upgrade). Audition carefully for odd noises before buying. Neo drivers are lighter (and often mean higher prices). The BF 210 is a stock recommendation and for good reason, but it isn't cheap, even second hand. Plenty of other brands use neo drivers. If you like the sound of your old Ashdown 410, a pair of their 210s used won't break the bank and will mean two trips from the car carrying a lighter cab each time, so could be an option. Peavey 210s work quite well and can be had cheaply - often very cheaply - used. Your amp will drive a 4 ohm load, so one 4 ohm or two 8 ohm cabs will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubbersoul Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 Thanks for the advice. I have been looking at the used market but here in Northern Ireland there isn’t a great deal about. Loads of 410, very few 210. Probably safer to stick with the higher power rated cabs, I will keep looking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Rubbersoul said: Can I add a cab rated for less wattage, say 150W, without too great a risk of blowing it up? Chances are you can't find one, not that it matters. Cab ratings are thermal, and next to meaningless. What matters is the mechanical displacement, how much air the driver cones can move without creating high distortion or suffering physical damage. You can find out the displacement if you know what drivers are being used and have their Thiele/Small specs, but cab manufacturers are loathe to reveal that. Barefaced does, with good reason. They boast as much displacement as anyone, more than most. It's the main reason why they're held in such high regard. https://barefacedaudio.com/pages/how-speakers-move-air-volume-displacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Don't rule out a 212 (if it's small/light enough), or even a decent 15...good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubbersoul Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Rubbersoul said: Hi folks, I hope this isn't an entirely stupid question but here goes. I currently run an Ashdown MAG 300 head through a matching 410 cab. The head is rated 300W RMS, 500W Peak with a minimum load of 4 Ohms. The Cab is rated 450W at 8 Ohms. This works well. My problem is that the cab is the weight of a small moon and, being rather disabled, it's not the easiest thing to lug around. I am therefore considering a cheap and light 210 cab. Now here is the dumb question: Can I add a cab rated for less wattage, say 150W, without too great a risk of blowing it up? Should I go for 8 Ohms or 4? Is there some sort of power reducer / attenuator that would prevent an overload? Is this just a really bad idea? Thanks for any advice received, I am useless at this sort of technical stuff. Cheers, Steve Let's address a couple of technical things first maybe. There's lots of complexity in matching cabs but generally speaking a 300W RMS or AES cab will 'handle' the output from a 300W RMS amp in the sense that you can normally expect a long life without much probability of blowing the speaker . The only proviso is a real idiot can achieve damage in almost any situation Most of the time you can use a more powerful amp and if you don't use a lot of bass boost or distortion you'll also be fine so 180W at 8 ohms into your 8ohm 150W speaker is probably fine (but listen out for signs of stress) Don't worry about 4 or 8 ohms too much. The difference in sound output is unlikely to be huge but with 8 ohms you can add another 8ohm speaker later so I'd go there if it were a straight choice. But a 4 ohm 2x10 is just two 8ohm 10's in a single box. Don't even think about attenuators for bass. Size does matter, a bit anyway. A tiny speaker is not going to be loud enough to match a drumkit, unless you pay a fortune a 2x10 or a single 12 is about as small as you can go and even then some older gear can struggle. Old gear tends to be heavier so for someone 'rather disabled' a newer lightweight cab is a good if expensive solution. The Mag 300 is quite a weight too, maybe look at a newer amp too Do you have a budget in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 A 112 could be a good option. I've happily gigged one for many years, only taking two out sometimes as it looks better 😎. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 You could put your speakers into a couple of custom 210 cabs for very little moola. Very easy to copy over the 410 porting and cab volume half and half for guaranteed result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwmlondon Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I'd say keep an eye out for a 112. There are plenty around the 300w mark that are pretty compact, sound decent and won't break the bank. I've got a MarkBass NY 121 that you could take on the bus with you and it cost £260 second hand - it's not going to do a festival and it's never gonna do proper sub bass but it can keep up with a drummer. TC cabs seem to come up from time to time on bass chat, and right now there's an Eden on eBay that may go for a good price https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234852367588?hash=item36ae4abce4:g:AcgAAOSwE3djuwqD&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoJD0S8Gp6B7ph2uMrgkvCg0in1MRgPVioOz%2FhnYz4eKIvs38zlwlI3V%2BDk3y0ewgRVYhZXxDfKCT36sZDCVHhYbtMVnnEaYYfVUgmaKOegyEJODxVXbQlyzX%2Ff6m3KiCPULq36J75VFs5fXBIEOoBqqddEvTcNOHZfSNQGaQjCI5QIJAxx50aln8W1tOWsUPtqaQyjQGnAs39qjz3umUS9M%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR962_4u0YQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I thought the 3 laws of Hoffman ( pick any 2 ) were low, light, loud rather than cheap , light , loud ? Could be wrong ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Actually it's small, low and sensitive. Money does enter the equation, as longer xmax drivers capable of going low in small boxes tend to be more expensive, but they still can't get around the sensitivity, so to go loud requires more power, which means a more expensive amp as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubbersoul Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 I hadn’t actually set a budget but I don’t want to spend a fortune. Turning the 410 into two 210s is something that crossed my mind but I really wouldn’t know where to start. I’ll keep looking on the usual sites for a bargain. Thanks again for all the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Rubbersoul said: Turning the 410 into two 210s is something that crossed my mind but I really wouldn’t know where to start. Step one is finding a builder. There's a few fine folk on here who might even volunteer a couple of evenings to slam them together. Does the UK do "men's" sheds? They are everywhere here. Staffed by old geezers volunteering handyman assistance with space and tools for DIY projects. Copying over the 410 specs to a pair of 210 is a trivial set of calculations. You will need to find some bug eye covers or grill material and some more corners and feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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