£12,500 Wal at The Gallery - damn

[Chris2112]

After many years of wanting to go, I was finally able to go to The Gallery in Camden this morning to gaze upon their wares. As luck would (not) have it, I'm down in Hemel Hempstead this week for a course with work. I found out last night that despite what I had been told, the course has been moved to Wednesday and Thursday so it left me and a colleague with a day to kill. Naturally, we went to check out The Gallery. 

 

Luckily, I knocked after finding their front door locked (smart practice, I think). The wares inside are stunning. A gorgeous Maruszczyk near the door that was quite Esh-esque in spec. A Moon in Larry Graham white with a matching Maruszczyk tribute hanging across from it. 

 

I had a chat with John Chapman who seems a very nice dude and was happy to entertain some conversation on bass. Down at the far end of the store I was absolutely drawn in by the Alembic Stanley Clarke they had in at £6500. The finish on that has to be seen to be believed. Even more rare was the bass next to it, a Wal fretless six string on hold pending sale at £12,500. 

 

Looking at it, I was wondering if it had been the one that Littleeal of this parish used to own. There can't be many of those around. Whilst I don't think Wal are 'all that', it was really cool to see such a rare item in store. 

 

 

 

 

[BetaFunk]

2 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

a Wal fretless six string on hold pending sale at £12,500. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember going into a guitar shop around 30 years ago and a £900 4-string WAL was hanging next a £800 Tune Bass Manic. One is now worth £thousands while the other worth £hundreds.

 

If only we knew then what we know now?  

[TheGreek]

If only...

 

https://youtu.be/vl8LU1v2Bjw

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by TheGreek

[three]

Love the Gallery! I don’t think the Wal was littleal’s. The latter started life as a fretless and was then fretted at the Gallery. I had it for a short while in its fretted state but sold fairly quickly (I don’t really get in with Wals). I didn’t get £12,500. 

[Burns-bass]

It’s a preposterous amount of cash for someone who can’t be bothered to wait a few years. Madness.

 

Good luck to the Gallery!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

It’s a preposterous amount of cash for someone who can’t be bothered to wait a few years. Madness.

 

Good luck to the Gallery!

 

If you've the necessary pile of cash, what range of tones will be able you get out of it while you wait patiently a few years for a Wal?

[admiralchew]

I may be incorrect but it’s my understanding that there isn’t currently a way to order a Wal bass. There is a waitlist for making new orders and, according to another forum, the build time for those most recently ordered is four years, with starting prices north of £7k. This, and the rarity of six string Wals, may explain why The Bass Gallery thought they could charge £12.5k.

[Burns-bass]

7 hours ago, Ricky Rioli said:

 

If you've the necessary pile of cash, what range of tones will be able you get out of it while you wait patiently a few years for a Wal?

I had a Wal and I didn’t like it so I’m prob alt not the best person to ask. I reckon you could get another luthier to knock up a similar bass and order a Wal and you’d still have change from £12,500.

 

Seriously, I have no idea why Wals have somehow become the rarest and most desirable basses out there. I found the couple I owned to be heavy, over engineered, and not particularly refined. 
 

 

[Chris2112]

When I was speaking with John he did mentioned the inflationary effect of the great luthiers retiring and the effect this was having on asking prices (I had mentioned that I had a Pedulla and I'd watched the asking prices for those balloon after Mike Pedulla retired). John cited Wal as an example of ballooning asking prices. This was before I'd seen the £12,500 Wal, and I mentioned that I didn't think they were all that. I like them but I don't think they're worth what they cost anymore. I don't think anything with a huge heel like the MK1 and MK2 models should be anything more then £1000! 😂

 

Of course, this is partly coloured by my memory of Wal basses being relatively cheap. I have friends who remember when they were out of fashion and considered distinctly naff (and they still do have a bit of the stale whiff of the 80's about them; Spandau Ballet and Bow Wow Wow etc). That too keeps me grounded, though I do think some of the MK3 models are a bit cooler. 

 

Of course, you might find the price of £12,500 for a Wal ridiculous. Try and find another fretless six string MK3 though. You can name your price, effectively. 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I reckon you could get another luthier to knock up a similar bass and order a Wal and you’d still have change from £12,500.

 

I want bass guitar A. It's available, and I have the money to buy it.

 

Someone has suggested that instead I buy Bass B in a few months time, and buy Bass A in a few years time. 

 

Guess what I'm going to do?

 

 

[Burns-bass]

2 hours ago, Ricky Rioli said:

 

I want bass guitar A. It's available, and I have the money to buy it.

 

Someone has suggested that instead I buy Bass B in a few months time, and buy Bass A in a few years time. 

 

Guess what I'm going to do?

 

 

You’ve won the award for stating that obvious! 
 

The issue here is that setting a price such as this establishes a benchmark. Others in the trade (or speculators) then use this as a guide price. The spiral continues until it becomes so far removed from any sense of value, it’s mad. 

 

The vintage guitar market is a ponzi scheme propped. This Wal is part of that.

[fleabag]

100%

 

How about one of Fender's nasty old planks ..  24,480  Euros.    Ugh

 

https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Fender-1968-Telecaster-Bass-Paisley-Red-4.35kg-1968-97806

 

[Burns-bass]

People can spend their money on what they choose. But they should be aware that collusion in the vintage guitar industry exists and that’s why these guitars have seen prices rise so rapidly. This Wal isn’t technically vintage. Nuts. 

[Woodinblack]

I am not sure why it is an issue - if you have £12k for a wal, buy it, you aren't hurting anyone, you aren't forcing other people to pay more for something. It is a crazy price to pay for something like that, but so are vintage fenders etc, all the time people buy them they will go up. 

[bloke_zero]

Looking through Funkles Walish thread you can see that a Wal is a very specific piece of kit, engineered a very particular way.

 

If you want that sound it's hard to get it elsewhere because of the combination of custom parts. Whether it's worth 12k is a personal decision. BG are always expensive - if I was selling one I'd try there first to see if I could get top $. I don't think it's collusion, just market effects - not really rational behaviour!

[Jack]

It's not even just vintage or rare guitars. In the past 5-6 years I struggled to sell a Bongo HH for £750 and Stingray H 2eq for £700. Both would be almost double now, certainly £500 more.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Jack

[admiralchew]

I actually bought a lovely Wal bass from a fellow BCer just before Christmas and hope to do an NBD post soon.

 

A Wal was my holy grail bass and I’ve not been disappointed. As @bloke_zero says, Wal basses are specific bits of kit. I’ve been after the Wal tone and nothing else has really given me that.

 

I think prices have gone up because they can’t be ordered and, even if a bass could be ordered, delivery would be 2027ish. I also think that there’s a generation players that grew up listening to Geddy Lee and Justin Chancellor’s Wal tones that have hit that point in their lives where they may have a bit more disposable income. I’d just sold my flat and figured I wouldn’t be this liquid again for a while. these factors possibly make the current pricing a blip. I should say though, five Wal basses came up for sale

on Bass Direct and Bass Bros over the Christmas period priced around the £7k-£7.5k mark, with all but one selling. This suggests that The Bass Gallery six string is right at the top of the market in terms of price but I’ve not seen a fretless six for sale and I’ve been watching a while.

 

I didn’t pay anywhere near £12.5k. Don’t get me wrong, it was expensive and is my most expensive bass, but to me it has been worth it. I understand why people baulk at the prices though, particularly as there are so many good basses out there to be had at a tenth or twentieth of the price.

[Burns-bass]

20 minutes ago, admiralchew said:

I actually bought a lovely Wal bass from a fellow BCer just before Christmas and hope to do an NBD post soon.

 

A Wal was my holy grail bass and I’ve not been disappointed. As @bloke_zero says, Wal basses are specific bits of kit. I’ve been after the Wal tone and nothing else has really given me that.

 

I think prices have gone up because they can’t be ordered and, even if a bass could be ordered, delivery would be 2027ish. I also think that there’s a generation players that grew up listening to Geddy Lee and Justin Chancellor’s Wal tones that have hit that point in their lives where they may have a bit more disposable income. I’d just sold my flat and figured I wouldn’t be this liquid again for a while. these factors possibly make the current pricing a blip. I should say though, five Wal basses came up for sale

on Bass Direct and Bass Bros over the Christmas period priced around the £7k-£7.5k mark, with all but one selling. This suggests that The Bass Gallery six string is right at the top of the market in terms of price but I’ve not seen a fretless six for sale and I’ve been watching a while.

 

I didn’t pay anywhere near £12.5k. Don’t get me wrong, it was expensive and is my most expensive bass, but to me it has been worth it. I understand why people baulk at the prices though, particularly as there are so many good basses out there to be had at a tenth or twentieth of the price.

A 6 string Wal bass would cost you £3000 in 2012 (check on BC!). Today - when there are more of them in the world than that - it’s 4 times as much. 
 

Ask why it’s increased so much in value?

 

By any metric, Wal basses are not rare. If you want one, they’re almost always for sale. It’s because the vintage industry has peaked in terms of pumping Fenders, and is now doing the same to Wals. We’ll probably see the same with PRS guitars at some point, and a load of 80s stuff that’s somehow now ultra-desirable. 

My point is that the prices are being pumped by guitar shops and dealers, and its customers who take a hit because they think these are rarer than they are and will continue to increase in value (no guarantees this is the case).

 

Maybe it is pension cash coming through, people too rich to wait (nobody likes the thrill of the chase), or people assuming these are good investment vehicles. 
 

Tulips, innit.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Burns-bass

[Conan]

31 minutes ago, Jack said:

It's not even just vintage or rare guitars. In the past 5-6 years I struggled to sell a Bongo HH for £750 and Stingray H 2eq for £700. Both would be almost double now, certainly £500 more.

Yep. Prices are all over the place at the moment. I sold my 1986 Status series II a couple of years ago. I was quite happy to get £1200 for it. This week I've seen younger ones with an asking price of over £3500!! 😲

[admiralchew]

In addition to vintage/quasi-vintage instruments, it’s possibly also worth noting how much other basses have gone up in the same period. I ordered a StingRay HH in 2021 which was 50% more expensive than the store was selling it for in 2019 and was being sold by the same store for £200 more by the time mine arrived.

 

I wouldn’t say Wals are common, even if they can be found for sale. I’ve only seen a couple of MkIIIs and MkIIs for sale. MkIs I see much more often. I know historically though that they’ve had periods where they could be picked up easily. I think some are looking for Wal

and Pete made basses too, with both having sadly passed away.

 

Paul isn’t making many and those who have one won’t part with it other than for a top price because they know how hard getting a new one will be. These things may be fashion-related too though and an expensive bass today may be difficult to give away in future.

 

In my case, I’m just grateful to the BCer who sold me the bass for a fair price.

[Jack]

14 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

...nobody likes the thrill of the chase....

As an entitled millennial I can tell you that plenty of people do!

 

Seriously (and rather pathetically if I'm honest) I have often spent ages shopping for something, convincing myself that I really need it, feeling elated when buying it, and then having regrets when it actually turns up. I'm genuinely a little worried about my excessive consumerism and it's something I try and stop myself from doing.

[three]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

A 6 string Wal bass would cost you £3000 in 2012 (check on BC!). Today - when there are more of them in the world than that - it’s 4 times as much. 
 

I can verify this - I bought my 6 on here in 2011 for £3250 and sold it around a year later to another BC member for the same price.  A nice instrument but I struggle to understand current values (well, I don't really, I've worked in a number of well-known business schools).  Wish I'd hung onto it and the fretless 4 I had - I'd certainly sell now and buy something I'd actually use and enjoy... something like that SCD shorty above.  Fortunately, Wals aren't for me.

Edited January 12, 2023 by three

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I am not sure why it is an issue - if you have £12k for a wal, buy it, you aren't hurting anyone, you aren't forcing other people to pay more for something. It is a crazy price to pay for something like that, but so are vintage fenders etc, all the time people buy them they will go up. 

 

Isn’t this the point of a forum - to discuss stuff? It’s a perfectly valid topic. Wal basses are not (by and large) vintage in the traditional sense, they’re still being manufactured (although cannot currently be ordered). The current prices neither reflect the value they were going for until relatively recently, nor the price to buy one new (if you’re currently waiting for one to be finished). I’m a former owner and am as baffled as others on here why they’re held in higher regard when there are alternatives out there. Much is made of their electronics but they are subtle at best and personally i much prefer a regular EQ. If I wanted that sort of tech, IMHO ACG does it much better. Construction wise their somewhat old hat, with a chunky, somewhat clumsy bolt on neck. The 3 Wals I had were all very heavy and not much fun on a gig, and I gather not much has changed in that regard. 

 

So, no issue if you can afford one and want it, like anything else, but still worthy of discussion.

[Kev]

13 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I am not sure why it is an issue - if you have £12k for a wal, buy it, you aren't hurting anyone, you aren't forcing other people to pay more for something. It is a crazy price to pay for something like that, but so are vintage fenders etc, all the time people buy them they will go up. 

It's not an "issue", its just a bizarre curiosity.  Its nothing like comparing them to vintage Fenders.  They're not rare, they're not disontinued, you can buy a Wal, built in exactly the same way, right now, and you'd save thousands.  You would just need to wait a few years.  I can't imagine being so impatient and so wasteful with money, especially in these times, but obviously some people are happy to do it.  Just so odd.

[Kev]

It also makes me sick as a pig that I sold my Wal for £3.6k 7 years ago (which I thought was mad at the time, easiest £1k profit I've ever made) and, if i'd have sat on it, I'd be in a rather nice position right now.